The Loop - 2017-06-21

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12:48 PM

@toscho Sry i brought this to chat since it was going long. Do you mean we should use UTF-8 for template files? I did use UTF-8 once, and it was throwing a million of header already sent errors, and a couple of random non-printable characters. Tried using UTF-8 without BOM, no success either.

But the moment i saved the very template in ANSI, problem was solved.

Yes, always use UTF-8, but wothout a BOM

Is there a reason behind that? If we use a template without UTF characters, still recommended?

ANSI is not a specific encoding, it's just the encoding that happens to be the default on your own copmuter. Can be UTF-8, Windows 1252, Windows 1251, something else … ANSI is the worst option you can use. :)

If there are no non-ASCII characters in the template it is UTF-8 and US-ASCII, because UTF-8 is backwards-compatible to that.

Well i just noticed Wp core files already are in ANSI...

So, they are in UTF then ?

again, there is no ANSI

they are UTF-8 if they contain non-ASCII characters. not sure if that's the case anywhere

12:53 PM

Hmm i thought it's actually an encoding by itself. That's why FileZilla was corrupting the uploads when it was set to ANSI.

hmmmm, are you seriously using filezilla? ;)

Yes i'll add a button so u can downvote it :D

What upload manager do u use?

SSH

recommend, to be more accurate.

need to do it like 1000 times, the worst UX ever

I use winscp, if you on windows

12:55 PM

usually just PhpStorm, sometimes WinSCP if I need to deal with bunch of files

not sure if casual hostings provide shell access too?

if they don't, they suck, and you should switch :)

God i used phpstorm for editing... was even worse than FortranC :)

"worst ux" relates to your comment that it calls something "ANSI" I will just not trust it to be true

so i assume no one uses notepad++ for editing too :)

12:57 PM

me

finally, you agreed for once!

I use it for editing .htaccess and PNG files. :)

with winscp it just uploads the files to the server when you save, no manual step required

tried atom and phpstorm, but the way that notepad++ presents the text in the simplest way is jut outstanding.

lol PNG

12:58 PM

uhm, sorry, PGN

Yea toscho doesn't need photoshop to edit png files. he writes images DIRECTLY in text editor :)

long time since I edited PNG in ASCII mode

I am moing into atom, the integration with the linters is priceless

PNG doesn't have to be binary, Jack

actually was a metaphor of coolness level.

Mark i will move into it to if i find a way to change the intendation

1:00 PM

really, didn't see a problem that I would care about till now

didn't you check the survey? i'll get paid more if i change the tab to space

:)

that was just the most irrelevant and nonsense survey i've ever seen.

I am a capitalist that believe in being poor :)

I thought TelAviv is a rich city?

1:02 PM

actually it is

but working with WP is a life style decision, could have probably found places that pay twice, but doing totaly different things

every city is richer than mine anyhow.

Birgir told me like average payment for every hour of wp developers is like 100$ in iceland

Iceland is very special

some people are lucky. and maybe he is the only wp developer there ;)

and an expensive place to live

xD the lonely developer*

Yea that was actually interesting to know, was shocked when i heard it

1:09 PM

Looking at hourly rates without looking at cost of living is pointless.

yes

can't we just work in iceland and go back to home in the evening? i live just next door!

again, he is the only one there so the "avarage" is meaningless :)

the one thing related to money that bothers me most currently is that you cannot make a living with chess, at least not at the level I'm playing. :/

less people live there than the number of people living in tel aviv

and tel aviv is a smallish city

1:12 PM

Chess? why would someone make money from chess if he is an experienced developer?

argh

lol

lol

boring to watch chess. they not enough audience to run the pockets.

dvelopment, debugging, reading missing documentation, can get very boring with time

1:13 PM

@toscho did you not make it to WCEU or I managed to miss you?..

Mark that was just i wanted to say.

@JackJohansson It's not boring! I watch chess tournament every day, and I enjoy that much more than pushing code.

25 and i feel like i've had enough of if else.

@Rarst Couldn't make it, unfortunatey. :/

shucks. see you another time!

1:15 PM

Maybe because you are tired of coding? Didn't you like programming (and possibly still do) just like chess?

Yes, I'm tired of coding. Still do it to make money, but … that's it.

@toscho Have you checked if its coding in general or just WP? ;)

I understood this after i notice you rarely leave a comment or answer, seemed rune to mention it though.

@kraftner in general

don't do that much WP nowadays anyway

unfortunately web development is something that can't go as fast as developers do. Take an age that w3 implements a feature in a browser. Unlike other professions like biology, u can just hit the bottom of programming.

it gets more complex than creative or fresh.

1:20 PM

I like the aspect of working with people, which you do not get working in something like embedded software dev

people which are the direct clients

yea at least u can launch ur website and wait 6month for google to redirect the first visitor to it.

haha

honestly i just gave up on one of my website since google was throwing 1 visitor per week at me, just to mention that he is gladly ignoring me.

it is still much faster then probably most "true" software development fields

getting many visitors is easy. converting that to money is hard.

1:23 PM

^ so true

well i'd be happy to have visitors without money. at least i can put what i spent time on to use.

1 year passed and my best friends are those bots who leave the "I must thank you for the efforts you've put in writing this site." comments on my posts.

A few years back, I made an experiment: I wrote a new post every day, for a whole month. page visits went up from 300/d to 1000/d. Not bad for a German blog about a niche topic.

Still, no money for that.

ads didn't apply there?

no

ads on a site for devs are kinda pointless

no one will see them

Sadly every field i try has some issues. I had no idea how to write an article on a photography website, which contains just some photos. Gave up and move to a blogging stuff.

1:50 PM

do you think there is a market for writing custom Slack apps?

me? X_X

anyone :)

You mean like bots or a custom app with a more targeted UI?

complex bots

I was looking into that recently because I need a way to embed and play games from lichess.org

this might be some coding that could be fun again.

One thing i know is that there is a good business in programming game stuff, at least the one i'm involved with. It's just... exploding with money.

Last year it sold over a hundred million dollars on a single event. This year is going to be more.

1:56 PM

I've heard from other devs that generally bots are the new hot thing right now, but nobody yet really knows how to make them work well. So it is a lot of research and trial and error.
There is a conference in Berlin coming up: https://www.chatbotsummit.com/ and Meetups are popping up everywhere.

oh, that starts in four days :(

> How Are Brands Coping With the Chatbot Revolution?

oh, come on. :)

no case studies, no dev topics. meh

Well that happens when something is new. A lot off bullshit bingo and marketing buzz. :)

@toscho Are you familiar with Lua?

@JackJohansson haven't touched it for ~15 years

ok then i take it as a no :) seems like hot stuff for game programming nowadays

2:02 PM

back then I wrote a few plugins for Scintilla, the editor that is the base for Notepad++ now

at least it has driven a couple of ppl from their original profession, to focus on this

Your name should be in the about notepad++ then :)

nah, I didn't publish that stuff

felt that it wasn't good enough

I felt the same when i tried not to go toward lua, but then came the 15 yo ppl who made good deals with it, but it was too late to go back.

DᴀʀᴛʜVᴀᴅᴇʀ

BBEdit for the win

and greetings

NOOOOOO

hello!

2:07 PM

BBEdit? Doesn't that run on kid computers only?

DᴀʀᴛʜVᴀᴅᴇʀ

@toscho ha, no. very powerful

No its those rotten fruits one.

DᴀʀᴛʜVᴀᴅᴇʀ

its what I had hoped notepad++ would have been. The regex engine alone in it is one of the best

I used PHPstorm but it was like watching a movie or running a game at 10fps.

2:24 PM

Las celebraciones de nuestra graduación – un resumen.

Juan M on June 21, 2017

Ha sido un mes y medio completamente feroz. La graduación de nuestro sitio nos ha causado mucha felicidad y hemos podido celebrar en Madrid y en la Cuidad de México. Hemos tenido también la oportunidad de poder conocer a varios de nuestros usuarios en persona, cosa que para nosotros es un gran placer. El poder visitar a estas ciudades para representar a Stack Overflow en español ha sido una experiencia que no se olvidará. Lo siguiente es un breve resumen de estos viajes recientes.

Llena de gente innovadora y dedicada a su profesión, los muchachos de IronHack me presentaron sus oficinas en Mad …

any idea why we get this here? ^

DᴀʀᴛʜVᴀᴅᴇʀ

someone added it to the feeds I'd imagine

realy appriciate the effort of function documentation in core. As a contrast, this is the documentation I am looking rat right now :(

/**
* @param array $args
*/

begs the question of why people bother with phpdoc at all if they are not going to make them useful

@MarkKaplun Idk i don't read spanish

because it's in general SO blog feed. because they decided to make their own blogs. because WordPress is, you know, bad.

2:40 PM

I love the level of complaints about WP while we are all spending time on it atm.

Also love gmazzap's headline: WordPress swearer, verbose PHP developer.

DᴀʀᴛʜVᴀᴅᴇʀ

@JackJohansson lol, agreed

@JackJohansson hey forgot to also tell ya your answer did work. The issue I was experiencing is I anticipated it running like wp_schedule_event() but I went ahead and upvoted.

Thank you for the ez +10 :) reminds me of my ez +25.

DᴀʀᴛʜVᴀᴅᴇʀ

2:55 PM

always try to rep my answers that provide code trying to help me. Isnt that the purpose of the site ;)

Yea but half of the ppl i help just leave 'thanks that worked' and leave the website forever without a single upvote or acceptance.

DᴀʀᴛʜVᴀᴅᴇʀ

@JackJohansson that irritates me

Being rude is the natural statement of humanity ;)

DᴀʀᴛʜVᴀᴅᴇʀ

i dont know if thats comparable to people posting "hey I got this theme, someone write this extra something for me?" question

I usually do it. Since it makes me research and discover. but generally, yes that's irritating too.

like this one

0

Q: Assign/update the custom field value for all posts

I have over 1000 posts. Each post has a custom field XYZ. I'm looking for a function that I can run once that will assign a value of 1 to each of the posts' custom field XYZ. I've had a look at this but i'm not getting how to put it into a one-time-run function?

custom-field meta-value

note the first comment :P

DᴀʀᴛʜVᴀᴅᴇʀ

3:01 PM

after that post category tag question I want to experiment next with a theme that does classified and they automatically expire

classified? like CIA classified?

DᴀʀᴛʜVᴀᴅᴇʀ

sale items classified

i have woocommerce.

DᴀʀᴛʜVᴀᴅᴇʀ

@JackJohansson haven't played with woo yet but it's on my list to experiment with.

If you are going to work on shops, i would suggest prestashop. Wp is just... not for sale.

DᴀʀᴛʜVᴀᴅᴇʀ

3:05 PM

@JackJohansson hows the documentation

@JackJohansson why do you say that?

perfect. but it needs some skill in smarty. otherwise, it provides everything

@TomJNowell Hello. say what?

you said WP is not for shops

one of the reasons is that when i tried woo, half of the core features of presta were like premimum bundles for woo

and it can't handle ultimate complex combinations. the one that Attribute Wizard Pro does.

Woocommerce code is hilarious. Wouldn't build a shop with that. Prestashop is built on Symfony compnonents, so if you build a site with Symfony, you can reuse most of the packages.

3:11 PM

@DᴀʀᴛʜVᴀᴅᴇʀ Take a look into the demo back-end. You'll know the difference. demo.prestashop.com/en/?view=front

@toscho Actually woo was the first i tried, but couldn't achieve what i wanted. So i tried opencart, magento, and when i was hopeless 5 years ago i found presta.

Michael Ecklund

Why is WooCommerce so bad? Any reasoning for those statements?

No one said it's bad... it's just not "enough" for advanced use.

Michael Ecklund

How so?

Since you have to write everything you want from scratch while presta provides as core.

Magento is grand too, but my personal preference was presta.

@MichaelEcklund very wordpressy procedural code, lots and lots of very questionable hacks, very limited feature set, terrible UI

3:18 PM

Wait... you said it's hilarious?

did you mean ridiculous? :)

whatever :)

Michael Ecklund

What are some of the questionable hacks?

oh, and no unit tests, just integration tests.

I was wondering... how could it be hilarious and useless at the same time :)

haven't touched it for quite some time, I just see the embarrassing examples posted in the dev slacks I'm reading

3:19 PM

@MichaelEcklund It's like painting a cat and selling it as a tiger.

Michael Ecklund

I run a WooCommerce site and I have no complaints about it.

Depends on the shop mate.

DᴀʀᴛʜVᴀᴅᴇʀ

@MichaelEcklund what all does the shop sell?

Michael Ecklund

Electronics

Imagine a fashion website with a cloth that has over 20 attributes with 10 values that they effect each other. How can you store 20^10 combinations in woo?

3:30 PM

WooCommerce is fine for small shops, simple shops. Magento is massive though, I implemented on a couple sites a few years back and it was just too much.

@Howdy_McGee Well said. That's what i'm trying to say for an hour.

Prestashop sounds like a good inbetween - can't say I've ever used it though but looking at the demo link admin panel, looks pretty neat

@Howdy_McGee One thing about presta that i like is, it uses both PHP and smarty, so you don't need to be a PHP developer to build a grand shop.

3:43 PM

Is it a good practice to spend more time for IE compatibility when developing a theme, or is the browser just ... Obsolete?

4.8 TinyMCE doesn't even support anything lower than IE11

great. let's hope this browser just gets eliminated.

I think your front-end should be good for IE10 at least, nobody uses 9 and nobody cares about 8

IE10 and IE11 are pretty inline with todays standards for the most part I think

IE10 comes with windows 7?

Well IE10 doesn't support half of the animations i use in my designs :(

Really?

3:50 PM

Yes it has problem with 3d transformations.

even IE11

They may need -ms- prefix

it can't calculate the proper width or distance. You know microsoft once said, they don't remove IE since the user needs a browser to download it's own favorite browser after installing windows :P

Oh and the worst part. Google fonts doesn't provide ttf as far as i know, and ie can't render woff.

Michael Ecklund

4:37 PM

You know what gave me a HUGE headache on a project? Trying to add vendor prefixed CSS via jQuery. Apparently, you just add the baseline CSS and jQuery automatically applies (supposedly) the appropriate vendor prefixed CSS.

and if for whatever reason it doesn't... You can define your own using cssHooks().

Michael Ecklund

5:15 PM

You know what surprises me about the core menu? You can't add a link to an archive. Only an item within an archive.

5:55 PM

You can add custom links though.

Link it to an archive?

6:17 PM

@MichaelEcklund If you have a single item published, and the post type show up in the menus, instead of Most Recent you can click on "View All " tab and it'll have a checkbox for the archive link at the top

i wish someone could tell me why this damn wp doesn't save widgets when i click save. This is killing me for over a month.

can't stay calm anymore :)

woocommerce.... everything you do is a product. You want to have two totally different types of products? sorry you out of luck

Custom Product Type + Custom Prodoxonomy :D

its like going back in a time machine to when everything was a post

since wordpress do not believe in proper software development practices, it is impossible to create another product type which will inherit all of WC core product functionality

.... but they use classes all over.... LOL

You should be actually complaining about phpadmin rather than wordpress. This script can never do a proper search.

6:29 PM

lol, why so?

8 years and i couldn't use this search like a single time

I am complaining that after 14 years wordpress is no more then a thin abstraction over DB access

have to browse every row to find it

use %like%?

but maybe when I do it I have the advantage of knowing where to look

Tried. I just want to find 'widget' keyword. Im right looking at it but it cant find.

6:31 PM

but if you use phpmyadmin, you most likely doo things wrong

that is probably because the way wordpress stores things

oh phpadmin is wrong too?

it is not wrong, but to expect data to be laid down in the DB in a simple way is..... an outdated expectation

the logic of how things relate to each other is in the software, therefor better use APIs to get data, if possible

what do u use to modify database then?

i need to change the tables though

What I meant is that if you have to use phpmyadmin, you are really desparate

.... and if the data is serialized... god help you ;)

6:49 PM

thank u it really settled my current mood

However i really am desperate, cant fix this widget issue. I have to type the widget in the db directly

Michael Ecklund

7:03 PM

@Howdy_McGee AHA, wow thanks. I've been doing custom links all this time.

I think they just recently added it, like in the last micro versions or something. It's definitely new

Michael Ecklund

They should just add a section on the left...

I agree, or still allow you to add it when there's no posts

Michael Ecklund

Title it "archive links" or something

ya... something. Needs improvement

but thanks for finding that

1 hour later…

Michael Ecklund

8:26 PM

Am I missing something or isn't there an option for a Taxonomy archive?

8:41 PM

there isn't

Michael Ecklund

9:07 PM

Already customizing nav-menus.php ...

Go Meta Boxes!

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The Loop

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