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Gayot Fow

00:13

2

Q: UK Marriage Visitor Visa (MVV) refusal and subsequent fresh application

I just want to ask some questions regarding my visa application for civil partnership visit visa but it was refused. The decision and The onus is on an applicant to demonstrate that they meet the requirements of the UK Immigration Rules. The UK Visas and Immigration Website provides info...

Check this out. The refusal notice seems to have been plucked from the rubbish bin. Look at it, LOL

Zach Lipton

yeah that aspect is hilarious

maybe you get refused, start drinking, get angry, crumple the thing up?

Michael Hampton

03:04

And... if you're going to reapply, maybe you should seek advice before doing so.

Gayot Fow

@MichaelHampton The

the thing is post-submission anxiety is a very destructive influence

what it does to your karma outweighs the economic cost of getting a solicitor to represent the application

I have actually seen the stress of limbo tear couples apart.

Michael Hampton

Maybe I need a vacation

Michael Hampton

03:46

And now for something completely different

Flying a Cessna into Chicago O'Hare | ATC Audio

►

Gayot Fow

@MichaelHampton now we're talking!

This is the way to travel

Gayot Fow

04:04

If you are lucky enough to get one out of Kansas let me know because it's one of my dreams

Michael Hampton

You dream about Kansas?

Or you dream about picking up a Cessna at IDP and flying it home?

hippietrail

04:30

so the factoid question can of worms is finally open and spilling its guts

not a travel question

5

Q: In China is there any autonomous area within a second larger autonomous area within a third even larger autonomous area?

On my upcoming trip to China one place on my list to visit is Qapqal Xibe Autonomous County, which is within Ili Kazakh Autonomous Prefecture. Besides autonomous counties and prefectures there are also autonomous regions and banners. So I'm wondering if there is anywhere in China one or more th...

china factoids

a travel question?

42

Q: One foot in Belgium and the other in the Netherlands!

I come across this photo in Facebook where the borderline between Belgium and the Netherlands is drawn in the ground splitting a house in two sides one side at each country. One can literally put one foot in Belgium and the other in the Netherlands. Is this photo real and if so where is it exac...

borders factoids where-on-earth netherlands belgium

hippietrail

04:43

we're going to have to either come up with proper rules for "good factoids" vs "bad factoids" or just stop allowing all factoid questions as "not travel"

Gayot Fow

04:54

@MichaelHampton Neither of those, I could never afford a Cessna and I don't love Kansas. But I would love to help deliver a brand new one to its owner, preferably in Europe but I'll take anywhere really.

@hippietrail what is that wonderful avatar?

Zach Lipton

05:11

hippietrail's avatar enlarged: i.sstatic.net/hlv6M.jpg?s=900

which leads to my next question: where is that wonderful avatar?

hippietrail

05:30

@GayotFow it's part of a sculpture in a park in kaoshing. at least i think it was a scupture it was in the shape of a church or building and you could walk through it. most of the photos are on my external HD but i think i can find at least one bigger one

Gayot Fow

@hippietrail oh yes, it would be worth the effort to present a larger one

hippietrail

the avatar is one of the tunnels into the bigger area

the one i'm looking for is still cryptic ...

I used that as a Facebook "cover photo"

oh here's a picture of the whole structure

the first one makes a pretty decent "style" source for Google Deep Style by the way

hippietrail

05:46

Gayot Fow

06:22

@hippietrail These are very nice!

@hippietrail tell me, the middle one, is it a real place that is lit purple like that?

Zach Lipton

very cool

hippietrail

06:41

@GayotFow It was in a park but I don't know its function. It could be part of some local festival or something corporate sponsored. I also don't know if it's a version of some typical or traditional art or craft, or if it's just some totally fresh idea. If not Kaohsiung it might have been in Taichung or another big city in Taiwan.

Gayot Fow

@hippietrail One of those abstract sculptures/architectures in the far east. It's very intriguing to me

hippietrail

07:20

@GayotFow got a pic?

Gayot Fow

07:37

@hippietrail no, I mean yours lol; I have a pic of a beautiful passageway that you can see on my profile page.

hippietrail

ah i see

JonathanReez

07:55

@Berwyn meetup on the first?

JoErNanO

09:37

@GayotFow Which tagging project? The tagging bonanza?

@MarkMayo Could you please take a look at these tagging requests:

2

Q: September 2016 Tag Rename & Synonym MegaQuestion

Since The previous version of this question is no longer attracting the attention of any moderators despite myefforts, it's time for a new Tag Renaming and Synonymizing topic. So let's once more compile a list of tags to be renamed or synonymized to make it easier for the mods. Below is a commu...

discussion tagging renaming

FYI @MarkMayo is the only pingable mod at the time of writing.

3

Gayot Fow

10:14

@JoErNanO No, not a tagging bonanza, the project where two guys go in and clean out all the rep whoring that occurred in making/defining tags.

Two guys who just crossed the 10k level

JoErNanO

10:27

@GayotFow I am not aware of this proposal then. Or I forgot it. :) Gimme more details.

Gayot Fow

10:49

@JoErNanO More details, we get two guys who volunteer for the project. Rep-wise they are between 10k and 12k. Their commission is to locate tag definitions where there has been rep whoring and to apply proper tag definitions. It's a big job and an important job because the crap tag definitions give a bad presentation of the site.

JoErNanO

What do you mean by tag definitions where there has been rep whoring? @GayotFow

Gayot Fow

@JoErNanO for example, look at the tag for Germany

JoErNanO

Ok. What about it?

Gayot Fow

@JoErNanO that's the project

JoErNanO

The project is proper tag definition then. As informative as possible.

Gayot Fow

10:58

@JoErNanO yeah, at least the part you see when you hover over the tag. You saw Germany, would you like to see me update it in a non-rep whoring way?

JoErNanO

@GayotFow Please do. So that I can understand what you mean by rep-whoring.

Mark Mayo

@JoErNanO and apologies, I'm a few days into a new job, moving house tomorrow, and going overseas on Tuesday - if I can get around to tags I will, but I'm barely keeping up with the mod flags this month - and a couple of the mods haven't really been active much recently.

I wonder if a 5th mod wouldn't go amiss sometimes, especially as I'll be travelling the next couple of weeeks

JoErNanO

@MarkMayo No need to apologise man. :)

Mark Mayo

Long as you know I'm not ignoring you ;)

SK reveals it has a plan to assassinate Kim Jong Un #whatcouldgowrong

Gayot Fow

@JoErNanO OK, can you read it now?

JoErNanO

11:10

@GayotFow Much better.

Hands down.

Gayot Fow

@JoErNanO do you see the difference? It used to say "A large country in Western Europe" which was clearly somebody looking for 2 point rep whoring

@JoErNanO The definition for Denmark denmark says that the capitol of Sweden is Copenhagen LOL.

Fiksdal

@mts I researched the documents issue a little bit, but I don't feel competent to answer. I've deleted the answer.

@MarkMayo Wouldn't that be an act of war?

Gayot Fow

@JoErNanO look at czech-republic it's full on rep whoring that we should fix because it makes the site look like a bunch of slackers.

Fiksdal

11:29

@mts OK, I ended up undeleting and improving. travel.stackexchange.com/a/79384/41775 Could probably use some peer review though. @GayotFow @JoErNanO

Gayot Fow

@Fiksdal it's fine but I can't up vote it because you left out the most critical item :( sorry

fix it so I can vote on your answer

JoErNanO

@GayotFow I wouldn't go as far as saying that. Often tag excerpts are redacted hastily without much care since one feels like it just repeats what is said in the wiki. There is margin for improvement yes. We should strive to improve yes. Wouldn't accuse anyone of whoring though. Especially because a duh excerpt is better than no excerpt.

Gayot Fow

11:58

@JoErNanO ok, so we drop the notion of rep whoring, but should we have the project in the first instance?

Fiksdal

@GayotFow Well, what's the most critical item? Maybe post it as your own answer and I will refer to it in mine .

Gayot Fow

@Fiksdal to get the tags right

Fiksdal

12:26

@GayotFow i was talking about the answer, not tags

Willeke

Advice please, I rolled back the edit on this answer, some new guy, with 105 rep did the same edits. My point is that the improvements are very small but that one of the Latin/Scientific names has been changed once but not the other time where it is/was written the same.

travel.stackexchange.com/posts/3331/revisions

The guy doing the original edit is editing a lot of old content, with very small changes and mostly just minor changes.

And several times we have stopped him doing harm.

Gayot Fow

@Fiksdal oh sorry mate

try to remember that I'm heavily medicated much of the time

@Willeke this is the same 2 point rep whoring @JoErNanO and I were discussing above. Except I am agreeing not to say rep whoring in the project

JonathanReez

Is there a procedure to ask mods to step down for inactivity? I haven't seen much involvement from anyone except Mark since the last election

5

I'd much rather see one of the top contributors take their place

Willeke

12:54

If the guy did edit posts worth editing for a lot of mistakes and walls of texts, or did edit a few posts which deserve a bit of attention, I would not mind. But I do not see any reason in the selection of the posts and he often does a few small text edits but leaves the walls of texts. (And still called it improving formatting.)

Gayot Fow

@JonathanReez nice one!

Fiksdal

@GayotFow Is this about Ali Awan?

@jonathanreez AFAIK mods rarely step down and if they do, it's mostly because of poor decisions, not lack of activity. I mean is there any benefit to removing the diamond if someone's inactive?

But I think a mod election would be a great idea.

Willeke

13:10

@Fiksdal Right as long as there are enough active mods. But if we have 5 mods on paper and only one in actual fact (and that one not all the time) it does not work.

Fiksdal

It doesn't mean we have to demod anyone, it can be in addition to present mods.

Willeke

In that case they should say 'I do not do the work, I step down.' and I feel we can and maybe should ask. Become active or step down.

As a mod on an other site I did do that when I noticed I did not spend half as much time there as I used to do.

Fiksdal

@Willeke Agreed, it would be sensible of inactive mods to step down voluntarily

How about we post on meta an propose a moderator election? @Willeke @jonathanreez

Willeke

I have only seen one election, I would not know how to initiate one.

It might be worth first contacting those that are now mods, first see how many there are and whether they are as inactive as we think.

Fiksdal

@Willeke I think SE staff have to innitiate it, but if we have a meta post showing strong support for it It will probably happen

@Willeke yeah, I wonder if they are pingable in chat?

Willeke

13:22

It depends, if they have been in the last few days, yes, but I am not even sure who the mods are here.

@JonathanReez, in your improved tag you mention 'the czech republic' while I have always heard it use without 'the'.

I did aprove it

JonathanReez

"The" is standard before a country's full name

e.g. "The United States", but not "The America"

Willeke

No, not really. It is 'The Netherlands' but not 'the Belgium' and it used to be 'the Ukraine' but these days is it prefered as 'Ukraine' without 'the'.

mts

Mod work is not about being pingable in chat (and mostly invisible I guess), but it is something this community (including me) hugely appreciates. I think this is worth having a discussion on Meta.

Willeke

I do not mind mods being invisible, it is when they are not active it might be time to move.

JonathanReez

@Willeke Yes, but its 'The Kingdom of Belgium'

but not 'The Holland'

full name = The, short name = no The

Willeke

13:31

That seems much to regular, language does not usually follow rules like that.

By the way, Holland is not the same as the Netherlands. THe kingdom of the Netherlands is the long version. In Dutch we do not use 'de' in the short version, just in the long one.

JoErNanO

@Fiksdal We had an election less than six months ago. @MarkMayo won bringing the number of TSE mods to 4. Going from 3 to 4 took 5 years so I don't know if it will be possible to convince the higher-ups to create one extra position so soon.

For completeness sake, all mods were seen on the site in the last 48-hours.

JonathanReez

@JoErNanO can we see the mod log somewhere?

I constantly see Mark commenting and purging comment threads, but rarely see the others

JoErNanO

@mts Yes mod work should be mostly invisible you are right. I don't think our mods are not in the chat and are thus AWOL rather than moderating the community.

Moreover @JonathanReez we have no way to check what mods actually do, unless we monitor every single QA, Meta thread, comment discussion, etc.

JonathanReez

I think it's perfectly fine to remove inactive mods and hold new elections. The position isn't paid, doesn't hold any real power, doesn't have any real-life benefits, so it's not a big deal

We also badly need mods to actually respond in Meta threads with 'Word of God' answers to difficult questions

as there's at least a dozen of contentious topics which could be swiftly resolved with a Mod's direct order

e.g. Ankur responded to the rationale question and it was immediately resolved

JoErNanO

The fact that mods aren't pingable in chat just tells me that they have been inactive in chat for more than 7 days (I think it is 7 days, it might be more).

@JonathanReez Mods don't have word of god in terms of how the site is run. They are just here to uphold the rules that the community (i.e. the active meta users, guided by SE regulations) agrees upon.

As a community, we could for instance decide to ban the WANTA close reason.

JonathanReez

13:40

@JoErNanO if 5 people are in favor of A and 5 people are in favor of B on Meta (which happens often), Mods should step in and decide

and then force the rules through moderation

JoErNanO

@JonathanReez Ok I see what you mean.

enforce not force. This is a free community, mostly. :D

I just invited all mods to chat.

Willeke

I am having one new(ish) answer on Meta and have been told to take it down, to keep peace in the community, (bit strongly said.) I think that most people who experience that do not go to Meta again.

JonathanReez

currently Meta is mostly a mess as nothing contentious is ever resolved there

JoErNanO

@Willeke Who? Where? When? And How?

Willeke

Not important, it has happened before, by someone else, it likely happens more often to other people as well.

JoErNanO

13:44

Nobody should feel forced to take down anything. Meta is about discussions. If you have an opinion you should express it freely. Downvotes only indicate that X people disagree.

2

Please stand-up against Meta bullying. Or bullying in general.

I don't like bullies.

Willeke

It is still +3

And I took the 'extreme' stand as first poster.

Gayot Fow

@Willeke nice one!

Willeke

I will be happy to accept a much less strong result.

JoErNanO

@Willeke The world needs opinions. The world needs divergent opinions. Well done.

Willeke

@GayotFow, about that knot thing, the braid.

JoErNanO

13:48

Also rep begats rep. (C) @GayotFow

Gayot Fow

@JoErNanO That's Gayot's Law!

It's a TSE dynamic

Willeke

Can you make the braid without the extra strands, then feed them in, in a practice piece? Do 5 cm losely, then feed in the string, tighten up the braid and see whether it looks right.

Gayot Fow

@JonathanReez the whack jobs get hooked on some proposal and defend it to the very DEATH

@Willeke No, the extra strands are the core of the loose ends of a square knot

Willeke

@GayotFow, first you make a test where you feed in the extra strands, then when you like the results you find a way to do it straight away.

The portuguese sinnet is nothing but overhand knots with extra strands in the center.

Gayot Fow

@Willeke yeah, I wish there was another :(

Willeke

13:53

There are many, look at all the paracord patterns.

Gayot Fow

@Fiksdal No, it's about the liability explanation.

@Willeke I do, but they do not work for tying off a square knot

Willeke

Most sennits do not work for that.

Gayot Fow

@Willeke and there's no option either

Willeke

@GayotFow, if you can show me a picture I might be able to advice, now I do not even know what the problem is.

RoflcoptrException

hey

Willeke

13:59

It might be best to get Ali Awal in here.

Hi mr Mod.

RoflcoptrException

I just saw that I got pinged

And that you were talking about inactivity

You were right, I was traveling for the last couple of months :)

Willeke

We are not blaming you, we were wondering.

a_tuo

hey

Willeke

Hi

a_tuo

what are you talking about?

RoflcoptrException

14:00

I guess you don't see it, but in the moderator lsit, there is a tool available where you can post whether you're active or not

so that the other mods know

Willeke

As I said before, I do not mind whether I do see your work. I do mind seeing nobody is doing the work.

RoflcoptrException

yes sure

i just wanted to explain the procedure

JoErNanO

@RoflcoptrException Yo man I pinged you. I have a tagging job and you weren't around. It felt lonely. :D

Gayot Fow

@Willeke I will take a picture and ping you

Willeke

OK

JoErNanO

14:03

Indeed we can't see mod inactivity. We can just speculate. Which is both inaccurate and useless. :)

RoflcoptrException

@JoErNanO I assumed so :)

JoErNanO

@a_tuo Yo! We are talking about knots. Moderating. And sometimes travel.

Willeke

And editing

JoErNanO

@RoflcoptrException Are you done travelling?

Fiksdal

@Willeke When an active user like you doesn't know who the mods are, it says something about the activity level of the mods (except for MM)

RoflcoptrException

14:04

for the moment

JoErNanO

@Willeke :D

Gayot Fow

@Willeke i left a comment for him also

JoErNanO

@RoflcoptrException Postdoc or industry?

Willeke

A bit stronger than mine, I think.

RoflcoptrException

I hope I can go back traveling next month :)

neither

JoErNanO

14:05

That questions haunts me every day. So I thought I might as well haunt you.

Neither? That's an unheard answer? Did you find the platinum chicken with the golden eggs?

RoflcoptrException

well, i don't have a job yet

JoErNanO

@Fiksdal Don't be fooled. @MarkMayo is the worst. Between him and @hippietrail we sometimes have to call in favours from NASA to track them down. They do more travel than they live. :D

@RoflcoptrException No rush.

RoflcoptrException

yes, i'm not in a hurry :)

JoErNanO

@Fiksdal Oh and where the fudge is @NeanDerThal?!

Don't get me started about him.

Gayot Fow

@JoErNanO he's fine, I see him every day

JoErNanO

14:09

@GayotFow Live or online?

Gayot Fow

@JoErNanO online

Willeke

I guess Online but not here

JoErNanO

@RoflcoptrException FYI this is the infamous tagging job: meta.travel.stackexchange.com/questions/3914/…

@GayotFow Ok good.

@Willeke Is there anywhere else than here?! O_O

RoflcoptrException

@JoErNanO Thanks, I'll work on that

JoErNanO

@RoflcoptrException Thank you! :)

Fiksdal

14:14

@Willeke what was that meta answer you were asked to take down?

Willeke

Not important, just as when @JoErNanO asked it

JoErNanO

@Willeke Were you actually asked to take it down? Or was it more peer-pressure?

@Willeke Please flag any bullying for the mods.

Willeke

Sorry guys, I am writing an answer and want to concentrate on that for a little while.

JoErNanO

Go ahead. :)

Fiksdal

Ok

@Willeke Just like @JoErNanO I'm quite concerned about what you said. Noone should be asked to take down meta answers.

I won't disturb you, though.

Gayot Fow

14:25

@JoErNanO She is exaggerating somewhat. Nobody asked her to take it down.

Willeke

On re-reading, it was not 'take down' but 'do reconsider' (I did say here when this discussion started that I put it a bit strong.)

But I feel that my reaction, in the same series of comments, is enough answer, no need to link to it here.

RoflcoptrException

@JoErNanO Strange, I didn't get the ping on the previous question. Anyway, it's done for now :)

Gayot Fow

@Willeke It's a pretty blatant exaggeration. You'll lose credibility that way.

Willeke

It is how it did stick in my memory, sorry about that.

And I have seen much stronger talk on Meta between other people.

Gayot Fow

@Willeke Not to worry, I am your best ally in here, I do hope

Willeke

14:31

You are close to the top but do not push the matter, ;-)

Gayot Fow

@JonathanReez before I forget, it would be a shame if you bottled

And @JoErNanO I suppose it means the project is a no-go, right?

Fiksdal

I think it might be this one? meta.travel.stackexchange.com/questions/3930/… @JoErNanO

Willeke

Looks like Ali Awan did read out pings, sorry for the guy who asked the Q but that was not suitable for the site.

@GayotFow, do you consider Cuxhaven next month? (There is an airfield in the town.)

JoErNanO

@RoflcoptrException Which previous question?

@GayotFow The tagging project?

Gayot Fow

@Willeke I put a request into the pilot's club yesterday. I could use some travel.

RoflcoptrException

14:39

@JoErNanO The previous tagging question where hippietrail tried to ping the mods

JoErNanO

@RoflcoptrException Ah.

Gayot Fow

@JoErNanO yes, i am supposing that your reticence means the project has no merit

JoErNanO

@GayotFow I am not reticent. I am answering reviewers. :)

I think encouraging re-tagging is a great idea.

Willeke

@GayotFow, great news. Now we just have to wait to see whether it works out.

JoErNanO

On Mechanics.SE high-rep users make a list every month with tasks and chores, promising rep, in the form of bounties, to whomever takes care of them. We could think of doing something similar.

Willeke

14:41

Pitty Gordon passed away (and had to give up flying before that) he would have loved to have a regular passenger.

JoErNanO

Scrooge @MarkMayo could put up say 500 rep for whomever cleans-up more tag excerpts.

Gayot Fow

@JoErNanO you will be the project manager. and we need to find the two guys

JoErNanO

@GayotFow I don't have time to project-manage. Not now at least.

Gayot Fow

I also put in to go to Dallas, which is easier.

Willeke

Easier to cross to the USA than to Germany?

Mark Mayo

14:46

@Willeke we have four mods, all are visible on this link which you can get to by clicking on users and then mods on the main site (I assume all users can see this?)

Willeke

Thanks Mark.

Maybe I should have said, I do not feel the need to know as I do not see work undone, but at times I do see posts stay.

Mark Mayo

yeah but you or someone else above said there were 5 or weren't sure, so I just thought I'd link

There's another link that mods can see (which I can't share) which shows the level of activity from each mod in the last day, week, month, and quarter

Willeke

Good, I will star it.

Mark Mayo

and our average response time

I assume SE tracks that, and if it gets too high they investigate and consider adding more mods

Gayot Fow

@MarkMayo the user base is increasing and mod engagement is decreasing

JoErNanO

14:49

@MarkMayo Everyone can see this. I confirm. You can also post the moderator-only link. Any non-mod will just get a 404.

Willeke

If several of you are around, there are no problems. Nor when enough high rep users are near to flag, and close vote content.

It is in the quiet hours sometimes things seem stuck.

JonathanReez

@GayotFow bottled? I miss your point here

Mark Mayo

it's /admin so I'm fairly sure you can't ;)

@GayotFow you're basing that, I assume, on perception rather than objective stats?

JonathanReez

Mark, maybe post a screenshot of that page, so that everyone knows the stats

Gayot Fow

@MarkMayo yes, perception without substantive evidence

Mark Mayo

14:50

@JonathanReez sorry, the mod page actually has warnings asking us not to share the specifics :(

JoErNanO

@MarkMayo That's what I mean. Whereas the user list is public: travel.stackexchange.com/users?tab=moderators

Mark Mayo

yup

JoErNanO

How the heck did I get 4 posts starred in one day? I'm getting popular. Soon I'll rule TSE. Mwahuawhuawhuwahuwahuwahuaw!

Or I could start saying stupid stuff in chat.

Which is better?

Mark Mayo

/ban @JoErNanO

JonathanReez

good riddance

JoErNanO

14:52

@MarkMayo There it is. :D

Mark Mayo

;)

JoErNanO

Oh and I called you Scrooge once again today @MarkMayo :)

Hey hey @JonathanReez you would miss me. And cry. And you know it.

Willeke

@JoErNanO, it is not how smart you are, it is how dumb the people starring are.

JoErNanO

So would @Fiksdal.

@Willeke Oh snap! :D

Mark Mayo

I saw that, but again, I feel the stats still speak for themselves ;)

JoErNanO

14:53

Calling me an everyone else in chat dumb in one go. Never been more proud of you @Willeke :D

Willeke

Not everybody, just those starring some messages.

Mark Mayo

insults???

/ban @Willeke

Willeke

LOL

By the way, I need female support here, feel lonely when you turn against me.

hippietrail

@JoErNanO Mark has been to more planets than me.

Willeke

Hi @hippietrail

Mark Mayo

14:56

@hippietrail hush, that was classified

JonathanReez

@hippietrail I was actually surprised to see the "has the community been everywhere" post wasn't posted by Mark to congratulate himself on visiting every single country out there

3

JoErNanO

@MarkMayo Still you have the biggest rep bank of the whole of Duckburg. :D

@hippietrail Chicks are from Venus. @MarkMayo's are from Mars?

Mark Mayo

@JoErNanO I have 3 acive bounties, go claim some

JoErNanO

@JonathanReez It was. I called him on it. "Someone" deleted my comment.

Mark Mayo

@JoErNanO I've never claimed to visit every single country!

@JonathanReez although I've met someone who has

JoErNanO

14:58

Will everyone please stop starring posts by @MarkMayo?! :angry:

Mark Mayo

been to two of his conferences

JoErNanO

Oh @MarkMayo 24% of current rep given in bounties is indeed impressive.

Mark Mayo

/hedidthemaths

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