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07:16
Spam needing some spam flags: travel.stackexchange.com/a/73209
 
1 hour later…
mts
mts
08:37
I think we can give this guy a +1 nice comeback to self answer
4
Q: Change Boarding Point of a CKWL ticket

Naman SharmaI booked a tatkal ticket today from IRCTC and got CKWL 2. I wanted to change the boarding point of the journey, so I tried to change boarding point option on the IRCTC website.Unfortunately, I was unable to do so because on clicking the button, nothing happened. Can someone please tell me what th...

09:23
@GayotFow Go ahead. :)
 
1 hour later…
10:24
@mts Well spotted. Done.
@GayotFow @Berwyn My two cents:
0
A: Adding detail to existing "encyclopedic" questions - a proposal

JoErNanOWhat you call an encyclopaedic question is referred to as a canonical question in SE jargon. Many, if not most, SE sites use, accept, and rely upon these to close duplicates of commonly asked questions. Canonical questions are usually specific to a problem that is generic enough to have a high li...

10:59
@JoErNanO I'm conflicted about this issue
11:17
@Berwyn Let's discuss about it. :)
I think a lot of questions should just stay open. I don't think it does any harm. However, I would like to see simpler QAs that can be pointed at, or closed as dupes to, if the question is sufficiently similar
so someone could create a community QA "How does US gas pump zip code verification work?" A: one answer
I think some answers just end up getting horribly complex and as someone says you end up pointing someone at RTFM effectively
@Berwyn Yup this could be the way to go. Or, one could add another answer, make it CW and include all the gathered information there.
I'd rather it were a separate QA. Once you point someone at anothe question with 18 answers and 12k words of text, you might as well poitn them at google
@Berwyn Sometimes RTFM is IMHO a perfectly valuable answer. Especially when the manuals are informative and well written. If the question is "Is there a way to find out if ...." then RTFM works: here is how you find out - read.
fine
11:24
@mts I could use some more details here:
8
Q: Is there an arbitration / conciliation agency for public transport in Italy?

mtsA few weeks ago I had intended to take a bus with Terravision bus in Italy, however they informed me the day before the trip that due to technical problems there was no service on that line on the day I was traveling. To get to my destination I therefore took alternate means and I have written ...

I have concerns that non-native English speakers basically have no hope in understanding some answers that they've been duped to
Anyhow this is a community-driven website. We decide policies together and then apply them. No room for interpretation nor personal idiosyncrasies.
@Berwyn How so?
Because they're just too complicated to understand. Like I've mentioned before, I think some of the xMB explanations of transit visa requirements could be answered with a simple timatic answer that works with almost anything
@Berwyn How is a timatic query result easier to understand than a plain-English answer? :P
Because they just fill in a form and it spits out the answer
11:28
Thing is, aside from language-specific sites, SE is an English community We have to assume that English is the common language and that everyone understands it. Failing that, a well-written post can be translated with online services so as to be understood by non-native speakers.
You're more optimistic than me
Anyway, I'm not on a campaign about this
I'll leave that to others :)
@Berwyn Na you should convey your opinion. Again: this is a community-driven website.
I'd rather do it by example. When I get the time, I'll write a couple of examples and post them as self-QAs and assign to CW
if they get closed as dupes, I'll assume the community has spoken :)
mts
mts
@JoErNanO I have added a comment to that, journey was ca. 100km
@mts I don't suppose you have travel insurance on a credit or something that would cover it?
11:32
@mts Thanks. I might have found the regulations for you.
I've probably got loads of insurances that I don't really look into
mts
mts
Na, Italian credit cards don't have that, it's a prepaid anyway
@JoErNanO regarding your answer on meta, I agree with your last edit but this is exactly not what was done in this case, would you agree?
Like the way it is now the question is canonical but the answers are not
@mts Yes I absolutely agree. I voiced this concern on Friday.
mts
mts
In comments to the Q? I didn't get do read it all, there are novels
let me have look now
@Berwyn Be generous and place a bounty on @mts' question. Give back to the community (me). :P
No no here. @mts
mts
mts
11:35
ok, must have missed that
the Q is too young for a bounty :P
@mts I can wait. For @Berwyn I'll wait.
@JoErNanO Heh. I'm not doing well for rep this week. Back in 3rd place
:)
@Berwyn Here we go. Another Scrooge on TSE.
Is there a leaderboard for bounties given on data.se?
I tried writing the query once but gave up.
mts
mts
11:37
@JoErNanO your counter proposal is not so different from the original one
you might want to point out differences?
@mts It is because the OP suggests answering a possible duplicate before closing it. Rather I advocate editing the canonical. Especially in easy cases like this one.
@Berwyn Excellent find.
mts
mts
That assumes the canonical has a CW
@mts No. Users can suggest edits.
mts
mts
was looking at the comments right now and seems like a missed quite a discussion
I honestly would not suggest an edit that changes an A so drastically and would vote against / skip on such an edit
11:42
@JoErNanO BTW, that's not very nice after I just gave you 500!
@mts You won't get any money. The EU regulations says that only journeys >250km are refunded at 50% of the ticket value.
@Berwyn You did what?
Er, maybe it wasn't you :)
@Berwyn Exactly. Scrooge.
Before we had only Scrooge McMayo. /cc @MarkMayo
mts
mts
@JoErNanO well not asking for a refund but rather to cover my costs caused by their failure to deliver
Now we have Scrooge McBerwin too.
11:44
damn people with a name starting with J
was JonathanReez
@mts No luck with that either. It's not a long-range bus ride. So the EU says all you have is the right to be informed about your journey.
@Berwyn Ah these Czechs always stealing our bounties. /cc @JonathanReez
mts
mts
Wow, that's off-setting. Can I at least still sue them? :)
You bought the ticket, yes?
mts
mts
yep
I'm sure you can sue them for breach of contract
mts
mts
11:47
even in Italy? ;)
I would expect so
@mts I am not sure. The EU regulation doesn't defend you. Who else would?
mts
mts
Alright, let me get a lawyer for those 15euros :)
Let me type the answer, which @Berwyn will bounty in a couple hours.
You know, no pressure. :D
mts
mts
@JoErNanO well law would. like otherwise any company could decide not to deliver their part of a contract as long as they tell me 2mins before
11:48
@mts Yes but which law?
mts
mts
you intend to say Italy has no law?! :P I mean the law when you buy a ticket you enter a contract and contracts have to be kept
The Italian decree upholds the EU law which basically says "250km? pfft you can walk that for what I care."
mts
mts
that's how I know stuff but I'm from another country
@mts Check the contract on your ticket. What does it say?
Does it mention the regolamento (UE) n. 181/2011?
mts
mts
11:50
like this type of law is the one I'm used to travel.stackexchange.com/a/72790/32134
@JoErNanO You going to put up a bounty for me? :)
"permettendo tempi più rapidi nella soluzione delle dispute con costi bassissimi o nulli."
sounds good
mts
mts
@JoErNanO here: terravision.eu/terms_conditions.html#Terravision Responsabilities
"Timetables published on www.terravision.eu are approximate. The company reserves the right to change them, informing users of the reasons for change as well as any alternative schedules.
Terravision may also suspend or cancel trips, providing passengers with due notice. In this case, the company may decide to add a new trip to replace the suspended one or extend the passenger’s ticket validity. Terravision is not liable for losses, damages or costs incurred by passengers due to service delays or cancellations. "
I could argue about due notice maybe, one day only
They can say what they want. That doesn't absolve them from a contract
I really bet they'd give you the 15 euro just to make you go away
especially if you start mentioning arbitration and a small claims court
@mts with all due respect you have the wrong end of the stick
Consequential costs are usually disallowed though. Such as having to spend an extra night in a hotel or whatever. But finding a replacement for the transport is not consequential
mts
mts
11:57
@GayotFow on the meta thing or the bus?
curious for your take
Take Terrorvision to the EHCR!
the meta thing, you have the wrong end of the stick
mts
mts
I've seen you had a long discussion in comments which were subsequently deleted. I also did not look at what had been said in chat those days. Maybe you want to post an answer?
I'm in principle pro-canonicals but in that case I feel like the canonical should adress the new Q before closing
2
@mts Does this help:
0
A: Is there an arbitration / conciliation agency for public transport in Italy?

JoErNanOThere is an arbitration/conciliation agency for public transport Italy. It is called the Autorità Regolazione Trasporti (ART). They are the ones who ensure that your rights as a passengers are guaranteed. Your rights a passenger on a bus are defined in the EU regulation n. 181/2011, which was con...

The OP's proposal is deeply flawed, I'm surprised you endorsed it
12:05
part of the problem seems to be that stupid foreging cards question
where for some reason, people think it's useful to have a separate answer for each nationality of card
if there really does need to be a seperate answer for each nationality, then teh Q is far too broad, and should be narrowed
but I suspect actually one answer works for almost all
mts
mts
@JoErNanO thanks, +1
@GayotFow I think you should leave an answer there, would you mind?
@mts I will use Joe's answer at the moment
mts
mts
@JoErNanO why don't you do the good deed and post that five-item list from your meta answer to the canonical as an answer (CW if you wish) to be able to finish off this discussion?
That will save us all energy and you can get rep since you need some ;)
@mts I'd like to include @Berwyn's address-verification thingy without plagiarising.
Post away
12:19
@mts did you notice the bit about 'without plagiarising'?
mts
mts
@GayotFow is that your concern about the meta Q proposal?
@mts among several, yes
mts
mts
AFAIK stuff here is licensed so that I can quote ahead with attribution
@mts Also I'll make it CW so no rep.
@mts You would be happy to have your stuff deleted?
mts
mts
12:30
I really think you should not leave your concerns buried here, a comment to my A and I might change my stance, meta is for discussion
I also don't see your concerns about deletion
mind to elaborate?
@JoErNanO for me you could also not CW it, or let me upvote it before you make it CW :)
@mts So you propose that some chap with a lot of knowledge about credit cards gives a really great answer, is that correct?
And the next time he logs in......
His material has been moved to a CW and his answer has been deleted
Do I have it right?
mts
mts
@GayotFow I don't suggest that and I don't read that proposed anywhere else
"can move the answer to the old question (e.g. we can have a Community Wiki answer in the old question for such things), and only then vote to dupe-close the new question."
mts
mts
the OP suggests "moving" answers which I read as copying
How do you 'move' an answer?
mts
mts
12:35
we are on the same page, it is not possible to my knowledge
one could copy content to a new answer or to a CW, but the OP is not specific about that
So the fellow has seen his stuff plagiarised and his rep deleted.
mts
mts
@GayotFow I hate to disagree with you but I do not endorse deletion nor do I see where you read it from
"move the answer to the old question "
That's cut-and-paste, right
mts
mts
that's your reading of it, I read copy&paste.
@mts educate me :)
mts
mts
12:39
Also I see now that in my answer on that topic I have endorsed that while I meant what was in my comment, which does in fact not completely overlap with the OPs proposal
how do I save that now that it's been voted on
wait!
mts
mts
@GayotFow you are surely more of a native speaker then me, just my personal reading of it
There's more
So that guy goes to META and complains "WHY did you copy my stuff?" and you tell him, that's the way SE works?
Did anybody tell him that would happen?
Hello? Are we finished then?
mts
mts
Now that I know your concerns I very much like to agree with them. But I continue to not understand why you do not post that as an answer in the thread that is intended for discussion.
There's more sir, shall we stop here or continue or what?
mts
mts
12:48
I would not want to continue this discussion in chat, as it belongs to meta IMHO
The OP and his main supporter are too fixated to discuss it dispassionately
I'm happy to share with you here, but would prefer to avoid the passions of a fixated user
mts
mts
Please post an answer there. You will likely get my +1 and not only that. But with deleted comments I am afraid I can not help and you give way to their side you disagree with.
Let me edit my answer on meta and then I need to get back to work :)
You can incorporate my thoughts into your answer, but that converts your answer into a nay vote
And you do not even have the major problems yet LOL
mts
mts
no, I will not do so as it would be highly unfair on whoever voted on my answer
@mts You would leave an answer you do not support?
mts
mts
12:56
4
A: Adding detail to existing "encyclopedic" questions - a proposal

mtsI can only agree with the opinion of @EugeneO and the discussion he is starting here is very valuable! I have made the same point as a comment to the question that got subsequently ignored/contradicted by close voters: Duplicate of this question: Is there a ZIP code I can enter when paying...

I have tried an edit
Also I will not push on the voting bonanza proposal, I do not feel there is enough support
@mts Keep the proposal alive, it's fine
My main point was to avoid encouraging a proposal that is profoundly misconceived.
...like that 'encyclopedia' proposal LOL
mts
mts
Glad you no longer find objection in my canonicals-answer
I will keep the proposal on a voting bonanza alive as in won't do anthing about it anymore, if you wish to pick it up please do, I'd appreciate that
or anyone else of course
@mts I think your answer should be either an about-face from your previous position, OR deleted in favour of @JoErNanO
mts
mts
have you seen my edit?
Yes, it's weak IMHO, but then I didn't answer at all :)
mts
mts
13:11
:)
I gotta get some work done, bye
21
Q: A friendly reminder that duplicates should be the same QUESTION, not different questions with similar answers

user568458Before closes as "unclear what you're asking", I'm asking the SE overlords and/or mods, is this is a fair summary? Some comments on questions and one answer on the Meta discussion Can we be more careful in marking duplicates on questions that are related but ask for or about different things? ...

this is wrong also; completely ass-about-face.
@JoErNanO are you here in real-time or in batch?
@GayotFow Batch. :)
@JoErNanO when you are here next in real time, ping me ok?
 
2 hours later…
15:20
@Berwyn @mts @ZachLipton you can try to help that guy out when he uploads his scan travel.stackexchange.com/questions/73243/… I might also, but totally promise to upvote your stuff.
I am trying to promote more tag badges
16:11
@MarkMayo, you are correct here travel.stackexchange.com/questions/73249/…
they have hatched a bizarre proposal in META which is misconceived.
@JonathanReez Well, that didn't quite go to plan...
You guys have the wrong end of the stick. I wonder if you spent any time thinking it through
Lack of strategic vision and a 10 year plan!
Honestly! It takes about an hour to consider the resulting disaster
btw, who's "you" in you guys? I can't remember any more. It's too complicated
16:26
Everybody except Joe, who thought his way through it :)
That petrol pump question was the wrong one to fight this on
All them are, it's an elliptical way of rep whoring. Wrapped inside a misconceived proposal
I think people have better intentions than that, tbh
16:43
You just saw it happen in the taxi question :)
by the very guy who is championing the proposal LOL
@GayotFow Gayot, am I correct in my understanding that you support a canonical-centric approach
@JonathanReez No you are not correct
Hah. I don't even know what the argument is any more. Can I ask a question on meta about what the question is?
You have the wrong end of the stick, just like @mts before he changed his answer
I do?
My opinion is simple. But I'm new here so haven't had time to feel whether it's correct or not
16:46
@Berwyn sorry that was directed towards @JonathanReez
Where is the canonical answer on Gayot's opinion on question closing? :)
@JonathanReez There's Gayot's Law and Gayot's Corollary and they are not about dupes
You sure that corollary isn't a dupe of the law?
@Berwyn nah, they are stand-alone stoicisms
BUT...
Per the proposal, this answer
0
A: What are the taxi options in London?

user568458The best way to get a feel for a whole aspect of a city like this is with a good guidebook. There are also free online wikis - for a big city like London, they're usually quite up to date. Here's Wikivoyage's section on London taxis (note - their jump link functionality is a bit skewy at the mom...

needs to be copied into the canonical answer
LOL, do you think he'll do it???
17:05
You'd think mods would be able to move an answer
@Berwyn people should be thinking their way through these proposals; and that's not even the show stopper LOL
I think @JonathanReez got upset. And boogied.
chx
chx
LOL @ Gayot's Corollary
that's like Arthur Bloch's Murphy's Law books which call everything X's law, corollary whatever
17:22
@chx Gayot's Corollary = upvotes on a question >= answers to the question
or somebody has been rude
17:36
@GayotFow What about the hover text on the question upvote "This question shows research effort; it is useful and clear" ?
@GayotFow the death of my question shall be avenged! :D
@JonathanReez Don't take it on the chin
@Berwyn that's useful also
@JonathanReez You waiting until you get 3 upvotes in order to get the badge?
Do mods see who voted to reopen, or is my secret safe?
@JonathanReez I have been angry sometimes; but there's too many feuds in here already for such a small community
Joe Blow keeps us all sane
17:47
Plus I have no shortage of flames meta.travel.stackexchange.com/questions/3560/…
Reminds me of JB's answer here: travel.stackexchange.com/questions/59938/…
I voted that up as he's right!
I upvoted. It's a good answer
The issue with Italian food is that you can prepare an elegant dish
faster and cheaper
And a coffee faster, better and cheaper than a starbucks!
Crush up some stuff, throw in some spice, saute in olive oil, and 4 minutes later
18:02
@GayotFow I'm never angry, even when when in argument with my arch-foe Relaxed :)
@JonathanReez I'm on his list also. I wish it would heal, but to no avail :(
Him and MarkMayo and hippietrail. You name them, I've somehow got them angry :)
"I emended grammar, morphology, orthography, syntax, and/or ameliorated ambiguity or vagueness." - who could refuse an edit like that!
Is that standard text?
 
1 hour later…
19:24
@GayotFow What list? I only get angry on a case-by-case basis!
Case by case or mood?
19:40
@Relaxed Something got you angry and it never healed. I think it has do to with my morphine intake
chx
chx
20:17
Is it ok to ask where is this building? Probably in St Petersburg I just do not know whether we are ok with essentially posting the same question for every place in the world :) kepfeltoltes.hu/160710/LCV_-2016-07-09_22-24-38-1_www.kepfeltoltes.hu.p‌​ng
20:32
I think we should just have one canonical "where is a building?" question. then we expand as new buildings are discovered
4
 
2 hours later…
chx
chx
22:04
LOL
what about a canonical "where is the toilet?" question

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