@HeidelBerGensis I wouldn't know what "older" people in the UK think, just that they seem to want out and don't give a damn what their kids and grandkids want
I am traveling to Rio as a volunteer to the Olympics in Aug 2016, at the invitation of the Olympic Committee.
However, all expense of travel and stay is on us. Only food and transport is free, that is, given by Rio Olympic Committee.
I have already purchased my flight return ticket and paid all...
I highly doubt Surinder Singh really prompted anything incidentally or that getting rid of it could be the basis for anything. Who is supposed to care enough about such details? That's not going to placate the doubters...
What kind of deal is that? That basically mean no freedom of movement and that, in turns, mean no single market. I mean I don't know if that's politically possible but that would mean the end of the EU single market, simple as that.
It's just not possible to stretch the current rules in that way, it just wouldn't work.
But I was only speaking about Surinder Singh now, which is something else entirely
The right to live with non-EU family members wasn't created by the court!!
That was my impression as well, that's why I am skeptical of the notion that this really "prompted* the referendum, the debate was at a much higher level than this
@JonathanReez How so? Let's not forget this is an island which imports everything and has suddenly, and apparently unexpectedly, lost so much purchasing power.
@Berwyn No man. We have to show them that the British Empire is over, and that the dysfunctions they have at home are due to the UK and not to the EU. Make an example of them. Hang the UK on the tallest tree in Brussels with a sign around its neck saying Brexit.
@JonathanReez How is Calais France's fault? It's only happening there because (1) people want to go to the UK (2) France granted the UK the privilege of having its external border control on French territory.
But @JoErNanO must be really pissed at the British right now for failing to object being called a Frenchman and not using this perfect occasion to bash the French in one way or another ;)
@Relaxed I suppose there is a (3) Economic conditions in France are such that people would rather live in a horrible camp in Calais trying to sneak into trucks in the hope of working illegally in the UK rather than live and work, you know, anywhere else in France that isn't a giant dangerous slum
Well, the thing is that they aren't that bad, objectively. I once read a kind of sociological survey on Calais migrants and their motivations and they vary but I don't think the UK is all they imagine it to be.
Most people try for a few months and eventually settle in France or elsewhere incidentally.
There have been a few thousands staying put in the area at any given time for the last decade but people come and go and very few make it to the UK.
@Relaxed Declare that all those caught within 1 km of the Calais border crossing are immediately deported to a refugee camp outside Europe (the Australian approach)
The theory is that they should apply to have their refugee status recognized in France. And in many cases they eventually do and are even not unlikely to be successful.
But if they don't, there are limits to what you can legally and humanely do.
It's not like there is a neat alternative or an easy solution to everything.
That's precisely what's not true and the British only have the luxury to not have to face the reality of the problem because it's an island that moved its borders to France and elsewhere.
Are they gearing up to be ready to introduce a currency and have something else than empty threats this time?
True
But they had a pretty dramatic referendum, obtained nothing and promptly backed down so who would want to try another one, whether it is about leaving the EU or about anything else?
I don't follow why you think this makes referenda more likely
It has been political suicide for Cameron and in most countries, there is no easy way to force one Swiss-style
So those who could provoke it (e.g. governments) are less likely than ever to play with fire, I would think
Probably not but what I mean is that it seems possible without the say-so of established parties or a majority in parliament (if I understood you correctly)
Swiss politicians kind of make a point of taking it all gracefully and respecting "direct democracy" but many are still annoyed when the SVP/UDC manages to provoke one like the mass immigration thing
It's forced on them by a party which has a plurality in some regions but by no means a majority of the votes or seats in representative institutions
Not yet, it had a three years delay baked in, it now seems more unlikely than ever they would be able to negotiate anything that could meet the requirements so what's next?
It would be very unswiss to completely ignore it, French-style
But if they do go through, it's difficult to see how the rest of the agreements could still hold
What the text adopted in the referendum says is that the Federal Council (which is their government, even if it works very differently than elsewhere) must do something now
@CMaster "there's not going to be a second referredum": there could be a vote of no confidence before the invocation of article 50, triggering an early general election, which could then be effectively a new referendum. If a new government were elected on a pro-EU platform, that would prevent the invocation of article 50 at least for the duration of that government.
A lot of people could be having second thoughts now that they see what's happening to the pound.
@ZachLipton is it in fact accurate? It seems to imply that the average expected age of death of 18-24-year-olds is 90, but that of 25-49-year-olds is 89, and that of 50-to-64-year-olds is 88. In fact, life expectancy increases with age, not the other way around. Although I admit that my analysis assumes that people are evenly distributed within each age group, which is probably not true.
@CMaster who would it benefit? It would benefit the democratic majority if there is a clear change in public opinion. Unlikely, I suppose, but who knows.
@phoog I'm not sure, but it seems like the ONS pension life expectancy thing they're using (visual.ons.gov.uk/how-long-will-my-pension-need-to-last) assumes that younger people will live a bit longer, presumably based on future advances in medicine. It's obviously all guesswork, though it doesn't impact the analysis that much
@ZachLipton but of course 65-year-olds have already made it to 65 without dying, and 21-year-olds have a nonzero chance of dying before they get to 65 (perhaps in an accident caused by a self-driving car). According to the US Social Security Administration, for example, a man turning 21 today is expected to die at 82 today, but if he makes it to his 70th birthday he's expected to die at 88. A man turning 70 today is expected to die at 85.
Yes I realize that. I could only imagine such a thing if it were hugely obvious that large numbers of "leave" voters or people who didn't vote were having a change of heart. But maybe in that case there would be a different way to resolve it, like the government just recognizing that that was the case and deciding not to follow the referendum.
@ZachLipton hahahah i dont do that all the time, just in questions that are on the edge of giving me a badge.. like when it is 9 votes.. or 23 votes.. like that
I am traveling to Rio as a volunteer to the Olympics in Aug 2016, at the invitation of the Olympic Committee.
However, all expense of travel and stay is on us. Only food and transport is free, that is, given by Rio Olympic Committee.
I have already purchased my flight return ticket and paid all...
