@cse I've been noticing your posts. Feel free to come by the CS educators chat room ("The Classroom") and say 'hi'!

site went quiet again.

@BenI. do you think my new question is off topic?

I don't like self answering immediately but wanted to capture our discussion

Personally, I think it's on topic.

I'm still getting small drips and drabs from the HNQ, but we need to create a new one.

(Also, self-answering is our best bet right now to keep the site growing.)

You see how much the site thrives with some HNQ love, and some portion of those users stick around.

We can only presume that from time to time, some of them who are not, themselves, cs teachers, mention the site to cs teachers that they know. Basically, more eyes = more growth.

Actually, a number of people I know are members here. They just have little participation.

A question that gets 3 answers (and a few votes, and a few votes on the answers) in a short time makes HNQ.

Or none.

Same story here, btw.

(HNQ doesn't distinguish self-answers from third-party answers.)

It's not that. Sometimes it just seems like self promotion.

This one didn't so much.

Unfortunately, I didn't have anything to add to that question. Also, it probably wouldn't have attracted a lot of traffic.

Hard to say. Folks hitting SO have probably studied Finite Math.

I was expecting someone who knew something about online things.

@Buffy Eh?

There must be online finite math courses/resources.

Just found this: coursera.org/learn/combinatorics

Are they reputable?

UCSD is, certainly.

Maybe @Jenny should look through the Coursera offerings. They have a discrete math sequence also.

Anyway, hasta mañana. The sleep fairy is about to visit here.

Coursera? Definitely reputable, yeah.

Talk to you tomorrow!

I've been thinking about yesterday's discussion with @Jenny and about what advice to give. I looked in to the coursera offerings and found some that seem to be very relevant. You could just take such a course (or three) to get some background. However...

I'm left with the dilemma about whether that would actually work or not. Some people, often those who have had poor teachers, think that they just don't "get" math and have little insight. For such people an online course seems, to me, to be not very useful because...

Students in such courses are given a lot of material and many examples to work out, but little contact with an actual person who is wise in the ways of math (or cs or ...). I think it is possible to gain insight into a subject in a number of ways, but working with a professional seems to me to be the best. It is a forest v trees issue. The courses focus on detail, the student may not ever get the big picture.

So, I'm left with the question: Is it possible to teach insight in a subject rather than just the details. In my own experience, I had deep insight into some areas of math and almost none in others. But I had better teachers in the former than the latter.

I could grok analysis fine, but advanced algebra, while I could do it ok left me without inspiration or insight. Similarly I was something of a star in point-set topology but a loser in algebraic topology.

I think that in many ways insight is the most important thing. How can we teach it? Can it even be done online?

Hi, I am actually (also) watching the lectures on YouTube on Computer Science for Mathematics course with MIT, I've got some examples from Twente (but no where near enough) and I work through the examples given on the video.

@Buffy Online maths on it's own isn't enough because I get stuck and can't get unstuck. Classroom would be ideal, however I live in the back of beyond and this stuff is very specific - I don't want to enrol on another in-person course unless it's exactly what I need. I've been taking tutoring with someone online for awhile now and I believed it was working .... but then he got busy with A'level students.

I think that coursera has message boards for each of its classes, so you end up talking to your peers (with potential access to either TAs or the prof...?) for extra help when needed.

Getting stuck is likely a different issue. Everyone gets stuck. The whole math profession was stuck for a couple of generations over map coloring (colouring?). Insight helps you get unstuck but isn't a panacea. But without insight into a subject it is just a grind, I think.

@Ben - they used to have profs and TA's involved but experience with Keith Devlins Introduction ... course says that they don't anymore, very few contributors on the boards as well.

Huh. It's been a while since I took one. At the time, the board was very active.

@BenI. KD dropped out when they stopped running things as he hoped.

Though if they took away the prof, I can see why that would dry up.

I don't have any experience with online courses, but don't really trust them based on what I imagine is true. A good teacher knows what not to say to a student as well as what to say. That is almost impossible without a personal relationship. Online and huge lectures are a problem without a way to provide personalized instruction as needed.

I repeat that CS50 is run by about 50 people, mostly tutors.

It's a problem but I comfort myself that I managed to get quite a bit out of the course, with the support of a lovely tutor from India, it taught me everything I know about logic.

Likewise Open University in UK has huge online courses, but local tutors so each student can get the help needed.

That class is unique in any case

I'm off to my commute - ttfn!

ttfn?? I don't understand you youngsters anymore.

Or did the cat walk on the kbd?

@Buffy - ?

You don't have a cat, I see. Cats like nothing more than to love you by walking across your keyboard.

Helping you type, of course.

@buffy - dog, he's far too big to get on the keyboard, he prefers to assist by offering approval in sniffing things

Big, or Hound of the Baskervilles big?

Japanese Akita cross with a boxer dog - huge, rude and very silly

My only pet at the moment is a spider who lives on the ceiling over my desk, wandering around an area a couple of feet square. I don't know how (probably) she eats.

She has been up there for several weeks now. Constantly, I'm pretty sure.

haha

you should at least name her!

Charlotte? But then I'd need a pig too.

She's on the move at the moment. No discernible goal. Not for a human to understand anyway.

Not a web builder - more of a hunter-killer.

@Buffy TTFN is older than you are. Popularized during ww2, stands for "ta ta for now".

@Buffy You're sure she's still alive?

Yes. That or a zombie. Moves about - though quietly.

@BenI. I figured out the For Now bit, but had something ruder for TT.

I was born during WW2, actually.

When the outcome was still uncertain.

Arranging school trips to foreign countries is a lot of work. Just in case anyone was wondering.

I want to make a post about assignment dyslexia. (ie. x + y = y)

@BenI. Color me mystified.

That really was an excellent information theory answer.

I am spending this entire afternoon rehearsing with the pit orchestra for the school musical.

I did a search for "insight" on math educators and didn't come up with much. A few things I'm still reviewing.

Maybe I should figure a way to visit your school.

@Buffy That would be wonderful!

Not soon. How far are you from Hohokus?

Scratch that. Offline, I think.

Found it. Not so far as I thought.