The format is open, feel free to ask your question(s) unprompted, however please be mindful of whether or not candidates have answered the previous questions so that they don't get behind and start missing questions. Other than that, feel free to jump in.
Candidates, be sure to use the reply feature so that questions and their answers are linked together. (Hover your mouse over the left of the message, click the down arrow, click reply)
It's a good idea to bold your questions (use ** or __ around it) to make them easier to see. When a question is asked, I'll star it - please star it yourself also to help! Please save stars for the questions so that candidates can refer to the star list to make sure they haven't missed a question.
@EvanCarroll No it doesn't, please don't interject in the middle of opening announcements.
@TimStone will be creating a digest version of the town hall chat after it is completed. This digest will take the form of a question on meta, containing all the questions asked as well as their answers for easier reading.
There's a system message up on the site, so we may get some stragglers joining us.
Candidates currently present: @Fogest @EvanCarroll
@EvanCarroll The user Adam Davis will not be able to make it, but he would like to ask you the following: "I won't be here for the chat, but I'm baffled by one candidate's promise, "I promise to always publish conversations with other members and moderators," which seems to suggest one can't expect privacy when contacting moderators. I'd like to hear the other candidates thoughts on privacy vs transparency."
That question seems explicitly aimed at other candidates. Being that there is only one other candidate here, I'll turn the floor over to the establishment. @Forgest have at it.
How would you deal with a user who contributes good content to the site, but consistently causes trouble in other ways (is rude, confrontational, makes bad edits/tag wikis, etc.)?
I would request that Jeff Atwood stop reclining in his retirement living off of the ad revenue on the site, and instead fund additional methods to bring true Democracy to these other areas you mention. No moderator should be banning users because of the moderators personal belief that the user was "rude." This is supposed to be a community run its users.
You are suspended on another site. While you cannot unsuspend yourself as a moderator on another site, would you use the moderator-only chat room to pressure them on unsuspending you earlier? Would you publish those discussions somewhere? [ mainly @EvanCarroll ]
@Fogest Transparency is being open about the reasons behind your actions and how you conduct through the rules and scope. But when users contact moderators or staff they have an expectation of privacy, and one that we agree to if elected as moderator
I'm running for moderator of this site because I love Web Apps; but, moreover, I love freedom. After watching the degernation of meta.stackoverflow.com I feel moved to see that it doesn't happen here.
@GraceNote If the users answers, comments, etc are helpful, yet rude I would make the appropriate edits to those answers to make sure they are not rude. If a user does this often, I would try to contact them and inform them that there responses/edits are not in the best of favours and they should be modified to fit within the rules.
@EvanCarroll a question of clarification, which other site metas have "degenerated" as you claim Meta Stack Overflow has, and what do you feel contributed to that "degeneration" of those site specific metas?
@GraceNote First step would be to address them privately. If, after the warning message or two they continue with their behaviour, it would be time to excise the boil for the greater health of the site and its morale and atmosphere
Freedom is under threat when people think appointing an autocrat to ban others for being "rude" is a good idea. As we've already seen in chat, there are those that would hint that such a strategy is appropriate. I stand opposed to them.
@random I truly care about the future of the web, as my application states, and I want to see this community grow, and help expose this great site to others who have never heard of it, and make sure there first experiences are the best. I do care a lot about the future of this site.
@ThiefMaster No, that's a serious conflict of interest there. You have to respect the decisions made by the other moderators and use that time to reflect and wait it out. And no on the publishing.
@ThiefMaster I have never been suspended and hopefully will not do anything that would pose me being suspended but if such an issue did arise. If the suspension was unjust then either way I would contact the proper user to discuss the removal of the suspension, but if I did deserve such a punishment I would not ask for it to be removed early.
A post is flagged. All moderators have looked at it. No one's taken action/cleared it because you're all unsure what to do with it. What do you do now when there is no consensus?
jcolebrand: Meta Stack Overflow has degenerated. Evidence of this can be seen from the switch of rhetoric about the community running the site. To backhanded dealings, secretive "question bans", a slew of employed moderators with money interests in seeing the status quo maintained, and Jeff wielding the ban hammer against personal political enemies.
Moderation on Stack Exchange sites is a fine balance between being the community's janitor (cleaning up junk left lying around the site) and a kindergarten teacher (encouraging all your users to play nice with each other and new users) -- How have you filled those roles currently within the Webapps community?
@EvanCarroll If you are refering to me, I would not ban a user who is rude, I would openly discuss to them the issue at hand, and work with them to resolve the issue.
If you're a candidate responding to a question posed for the moderator candidates, please ensure that you use the reply-to feature for purposes of following the conversation.
@random Any actions and motives should be in the best interests of the site. Having a hidden agenda can only mean you're running at half mast and should perhaps step away from pretending to care about growing and making it better
@jcolebrand If it is out of the scope of the site, it is best to move it to where it's suited, or remove the post and inform the user about what type of site this is, and express to them how the site should be used.
@GraceNote Usually for such flags, a day away can make it clear as to what action. Still, if you can't work it out with other mods on how to handle the flag, there's no harm in asking for what Team SE would do
@GraceNote Discuss the issue with another moderator, or two and decide upon what action would be the best. Looking at the flag individually may pose some issues if it's a tough call because each moderator may have a different opinion. If the moderators instead work as a team and discuss the issue, then a solution may be discovered.
Do you feel that the StackExchange model of community moderation which escalates to moderator moderation which escalates to SE moderation is a valid system, or do you feel that the entire model is broken? If you feel it is broken, what can you, as a middle cog/janitor, do to improve that model?
@voretaq7 As a janitor, no problem. As someone who has been ruthless on wanting to shut down webapp recommendations, have found that slight pushes will get them there. Definitely could be less abrasive though
@voretaq7 When I do see, "junk", I will flag the answer/question or if it is salvageable I will make the appropriate edits. I do not see many rude users, but when I do I try to let them know that they could have said it in a better way, to make their post less rude.
@jcolebrand Refuse to take action that would exclude the bottom cogs from the inner workings of my own layer of cogs. Make sure that the more privileged cogs are operating transparently for the lower peon-cogs to see.
@EvanCarroll As a moderator you will be expected to make the call on what is/isn't offensive sometimes (to use the wonderful FCC term, you need to make the determination based on "contemporary community standards")
@jcolebrand I think it works great. Often on sites that have a moderation team you will see people getting full of themselves and of the power they have, but with this style there is a more spread out type of moderation with multiple eyes seeing everything, preventing the sort of power abuse that can arise.
@voretaq7 Ok, well then, if "offensive" entails "classification such that the material is no longer visible by the community", and if "making the call" excludes the community. My vote will be that nothing is offensive ever.
New users often are not accustomed to the Stack Exchange system, and sometimes struggle to present themselves properly, either in the way they use the site or their attitude. How willing are you to work with "problematic" users, and at what point do you decide that someone isn't worth the effort?
As a moderator your votes are binding -- If you see a question and deem it close worthy it can be gone with just your vote. How will this change the way you use close votes, if at all?
@phwd Foul. They're lazy and try to crowd source looking up through directories. Best to ask them what they're using now and what one thing they're trying to do. If they're just looking for something free or an alternative, it's clear the post will only degenerate into a popularity contest. Would close them all and any that are redeemable, edit to how like questions should be asked
@phwd I don't think it's the best sort of thing to see people asking for apps that do this and that as the answer is often a simple Google Search away, but in some cases it does not seem to be that bad, as often it can be hard to find websites that are unique and do what your looking for.
@random "Closed" and off-topic can be determined democratically by the users. A single guy with a bazooka is not the right tool. Even if that guy does have a charming beard like I do.
@GraceNote I'd reopen the question and ban that moderator.
@GraceNote I would contact said moderator, and get their opinion on the matter and work to obtain a resolution that both, the other moderator and myself agree is just.
Do you feel like a representative percentage of the community participates in your site's meta? Based on that, how strongly do you think feedback presented on meta should factor into your decision making as a moderator?
@GraceNote Just ask them in private. If there's a change, let them help in the reopening of it. Or if it was a borderline, see what can be done to edit it in shape if need be
@phwd I am not familiar with the mod tools, though I am a quick learner, and can pick up on new things in a timely manner. I think a moderator should be a role model to the community, and answer some questions, deal with flags and make worthwhile edits to lacking answers.
@phwd Mods are janitors and operate the pin setters behind the doors so that people don't see how mad the duck is paddling underwater. A mod should be checking for any spot fires and continue what they were always doing if they never became mods, lifting the site's quality one post at a time
@GraceNote I think there is an okay amount of meta participation though I don't think you could consider it to be enough to affect my decision making. Yes it would have an affect, but it depends upon a case by case bases.
Two highly respected members of the community get in a comment war on a question. They both flag each other's comments and are flipping out and it is clear that this is beyond a heated argument. What do you do, what don't you do?
@phwd Jeff claims that every site is protected by "Question blocks", and "Answer blocks". I'd demand he remove them because they're probably the least transparent part of the site right now. Who knows what kind of good contributions Jeff's secret sauce and personal vendettas are keeping out?
@phwd It all depends on the day. I will have at least 2 hours everyday to dedicate to moderation and any additional time I have will go toward a mixture of WebApps and moderation
@phwd The drive-by users and the low volume of voting actions and spreading the load of expertise. Right now, it's as if there are only at most 10 active, frequent users, but they can't all know about all the web apps out there
@phwd It'd create a Fund Razr campaign, if the community wanted to fund my moderatorship, I'd probably quit my job. Usually Jeff just ends up employing the moderators and they become voices for the establishment. If the people need a mouthpiece, I'd step up to the plate! Shy of that, I'm willing to give 16 hours a day to the people.
@voretaq7 I'd tell people to use irc.freenode.net/#google-fu . Let's not get overly locked in propriety. Freenode has done a great job helping organize online communities in the past. And, it isn't subject to the caprice of Stack Exchange.
@GraceNote Obtaining 20k can be a tedious task on a community of this size, and I would like to help this community out during that time it takes to obtain 10k or 20k rep. I feel I can contribute to the site in greater ways before hitting those high rep levels.
Follow up to webapp-rec questions, there are more than a couple highly voted webapp-rec questions that are closed as "Not Constructive" / "Off-topic, what is your stance on this? Throw them under the rug (i.e. leave them), edit so it could be reopened (if so how) or kill it with fire (delete)?
@GraceNote Nuke the comments, leave one asking for calm and to focus on the post, suggest the use of the chat room, lock it for a day, come back and hope to Baal it's calmed down
@phwd There are voting features for a reason. If something is highly upvoted, I would assume that the community found the question helpful, and would not mind having it opened.
@phwd Check for any redeeming way to edit it into a constructive question. If not, into the furnace and focus on others that haven't been upvoted through madness of popularity
@voretaq7 It's been helpful here and there to celebrate each little milestone, 5 users closing a question, that sort of thing. Helps users remember that there is some base that aren't fly-by-nighters
Would you ever see yourself in disagreement with SE Staff over changes you would like to see take place on WebApps and would you hold firm to your opinion?
@phwd If I have an opinion, I will do my best to get my point across. It's an opinion, they do not have to agree but atleast I know they have heard my opinion, and may consider it. There is not a need to sit there and keep pestering them about it. Yes I would hold firm on my opinion, but not in a way of being a bother.
@phwd Most certainly. And have, at least on something as identity defining as a name and URL even. But it's their engine and ultimately up to them to work out what is in their best interest for them to allow us such a rich format for data presentation
@EvanCarroll As communities grow their definition of on-topic changes -- Do you feel that this is a natural/appropriate evolution for a site? (Anyone else is welcome to chime in on this one too)
@phwd Politely start a fire. Maybe migrate to the centra Meta drop. Or ask the community if they have forgotten or put it on the backburner. Something after a few months wouldn't hurt
A new user posts their first question on Web Apps. It contains lots of rambling, poor grammar & poor formatting, however there is a good question hidden in there somewhere. What do you do?
@Barry Some times there isn't. But when there may be, cut out all the guff and leave a comment pointing out why and where things were changed so they can learn for future posts
This marks the end of our Town Hall. Thank you to all of the candidates for their time, and to all others who came here to ask questions and to support the candidates. Good luck to everyone as this election approaches its close!
3
As mentioned, @TimStone will be making a digest of this that will be available after this at some point. Candidates who haven't finished, you are free to continue answering in here until you reach the end (and anyone who couldn't make it is also allowed to answer post-fact) - this end only signifies the end of new questions, not the time you have to answer.
@EvanCarroll The question and answer blocks aren't enabled on Web Apps. The only sites where I know they are enabled are Stack Overflow, Programmers and possibly Meta Stack Overflow. There just isn't the volume of low quality questions on Web Apps to justify them here.
