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21:08
Question is: Γ ⊢ Δ axiomatically true?
@Downgoat What are those symbols?
/me wishes that google didn't strip characters
@WheatWizard not something delta I think
oh, gamma function something delta
I'm pretty sure that is an entails symbol. I don't know what $\Gamma$ or $\Delta$ mean
seems to be "Gamma function yields delta"
I think Adám could help.
21:10
2
Q: If Γ,A∧B⊢Δ is an axiom, then also Γ,A,B⊢Δ is an axiom

GLeContext I am studying sequent calculus, and I am trying to understand the proof that the rule L∧ introducing "$\land $" on the left: ${\displaystyle \quad {\cfrac {\Gamma ,A,B\vdash \Delta }{\Gamma ,A\land B\vdash \Delta }}}$ is invertible, where invertible means that as soon as I have a deriv...

that help?
He knows about weird symbols
@WheatWizard uppercase gamma, and delta, sequent calculus
Ooh. This looks fun
lol
@Riker no, not really :P
21:11
rip
@Downgoat You probably know more about sequent calculus than I do but with a precursory investigation the answer seems to be no.
@WheatWizard well now that I think about it the question is kinda nonsense
it's like asking if x =y
I still think the question makes sense. but I don't think that its a theorem let alone an axiom.
If I am understanding that statement is simply that somethings entails some other things. Since neither $\Gamma$ nor $\Delta$ have any meaning it is false.
Wikipedia though says Γ, A ⊢ Δ is and axiom which I don't understand then
Where does it say that?
21:24
@WheatWizard in reduction trees at thr bottom:
Sequent calculus is, in essence, a style of formal logical argumentation where every line of a proof is a conditional tautology (called a sequent by Gerhard Gentzen) instead of an unconditional tautology. Each conditional tautology is inferred from other conditional tautologies on earlier lines in a formal argument according to rules and procedures of inference, giving a better approximation to the style of natural deduction used by mathematicians than David Hilbert's earlier style of formal logic where every line was an unconditional tautology. There may be more subtle distinctions to be made...
@Downgoat It doesn't say that. I've read the entire section could you quoter the sentence?
@WheatWizard sorry, I think my brain just swapped bottom and top of the tree
Ok cool np.
Thanks for introducing me to sequent Calculus
22:03
Can anyone explain how from Γ, A, A → B ⊢ B, Δ you generate Γ, A ⊢ A, B, Δ and Γ, A, B ⊢ B, Δ
To my understanding you would get Γ, A, B ⊢ B, Δ
not sure how you'd get A on the RHS though
or is this a rule that is just supposed to be assumed to be true
22:29
Question: is this not always true?:
The left side is always true if α is false. The right side is always false if α is false.
hint: A => (B => C) === (A ^ B) => C
22:45
so when I see:
It is either false, or there is a predicate I am supposed to use?
22:57
Actually better question: what am I supposed to assume the domain as for the forall?
@ConorO'Brien this rule is not seeming to work
@Downgoat Thats just L →, its a rule
(God I love seeing my MathJax SVGs)
I got HTTPS working yesterday, so they'll work in Q&A!
@ATaco :D mathjax imagifier is like best thing ever 11/10 thank you so much for amking
That rule is true.
Proof:
1) assume A ^ B
2) via and elim on 1) A
3) via and elim on 2) B
4) via if elim on 1) and A -> (B -> A), B -> A
5) via if elim on 3) and 4) A
6) via if introduction (A ^ B) -> A
I'll probably update the editor a bit soon, probably give it ACE support instead of just being a TextArea
23:07
@roomOwners: am I allowed to ask people to vote for me on something outside of PPCG in TNB?
@ATaco Ace has LaTeX support?
actually now that I say that the answer is probably no
@ASCII-only TMK, or at the very least, there's a plugin for it.
@WheatWizard is the caret xor or and?
@Downgoat and
23:13
Ohhh
@Downgoat
If C = A, i.e. A ^ B -> A then it's same as B -> A right?
@Downgoat Is what the same as B -> A?
(A ^ B) -> A
(A ^ B) -> A is a theorem, it is always true
So its not the same as B -> A which can be false
23:24
@WheatWizard can you link me to it?
I'll prove it real quick give me a sec
If that is always true that means:
is always true
great, now even more confused >_<
@Downgoat lhs is always true, rhs is not always true, thus, equivalence is false
We should make a room
@WheatWizard so if I understand correctly, conjunction elimination tells us that (A ^ B) -> A, in order for this to be the case, both A and B need to be true?
73 messages moved from The Nineteenth Byte
1 message moved from The Nineteenth Byte
@Downgoat I don't understand exactly what you are saying (A ^ B) -> A is always true
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@Downgoat We are assuming A ^ B is true and A ^ B is only true if both A and B are true
23:35
So what is the question? I am really confused rn
wait I am overcomplicating this
yeah, this makes sense
because if A is false, it'll evaluate to true, and if A is true, it'll evaluate to true
sorry I am idiot
yeah
not to the idiot part
^ is logical and right? (also what is the right arrow)
yeah thats what we are going by
-> is implies
23:38
@ASCII-only logical implication
You should put "^ is logical and" in the room description :P
I keep getting implication and AND mixed up in my head
@trichoplax can I be RO also :3
Ask the RO...
oh sorry, I thought you created room >_>
@WheatWizard can I be RO :3
room topic changed to PPCG Logic: A room for discussing Logic. ^ is the logical and and -> implies implies. (no tags)
23:40
ok what is dot and upside down A
Upside down A is forall
@ASCII-only for all variable, a -> (b -> a) is true
Dot means end of the first clause of the forall statement
so for what I have if would be for every a, and for every b, a -> (b -> a) is true
IIRC
@Downgoat How do I make you room owner? I've never had to add a RO before
23:42
for some reason this is still mystery to me:
@WheatWizard I think if you go to: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/58424/ppcg-logic?tab=access there should be a button
Whats the gamma about? Is that a function definition
where do you see a gamma?
lambda whoops
I think that is lambda calculus thing too
AFAIK It means function with arg x
λ<args>.<body>
23:45
That seems like pure jibberish to me
@ConorO'Brien is lambda calc expert though
wait what
in The Nineteenth Byte, 21 hours ago, by Conor O'Brien
@Downgoat yes, why?
I'm not an expert >_>
I've done a fair amount of lambda calculus myself, It just seems like nonsense, thats why I was so surprised by the lambda
23:46
see this is why we should stick to latin alphabet
@Downgoat Where is that image from?
@WheatWizard I mean it's turing complete so that's cool
In type theory and functional programming, Hindley–Milner (HM), also known as Damas–Milner or Damas–Hindley–Milner, is a classical type system for the lambda calculus with parametric polymorphism, first described by J. Roger Hindley and later rediscovered by Robin Milner. Luis Damas contributed a close formal analysis and proof of the method in his PhD thesis. Among HM's more notable properties are its completeness and its ability to deduce the most general type of a given program without the need of any type annotations or other hints supplied by the programmer. Algorithm W is a fast algorithm...
btw marked the wikipedia article as too complex
Ok I have to go rn, I might read up on this in a bit. Simply because I am confused as to how that image could ever make sense.
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@ConorO'Brien I think he means the linked expression in nonsense, not lambda calculus as a whole
23:50
oh ok
D:
still not work
wat how u do dis
this looks like some BS version of haskell
3
!https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/b92f2984c2d16055c00ede‌​4e9354829d0dbed396
probably is
:/ don't work for me :(
23:52
did you include the !
wat
TIL
yeah
force onebox
do you know what the let a[b] = .... in a means
it looks vaguely like a substitution
it seems that in any case b is a predicate
let var[pred] = lambda
maybe a domain restriction ? idk
this honestly makes no sense
"I know what's a great idea! Let's put random symbols into a wikipedia article and see how long it takes for them to figure it out!"
I feel so badass for putting in the "This article may be too technical for most readers to understand" rn :P
23:57
lol

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