Puzzling 2017 Moderator Election Chat

Deusovi

01:21

@boboquack It was.

n_palum

01:32

:O Deus peeked his head

Deusovi

I've been checking in! Just haven't felt the need to respond too much here

n_palum

Mhmmmmm, likely story

Jamal Senjaya

02:38

For all the candidate, in what country do you live? I think we need to know this, to find the moderator active time. We have to avoid choosing moderators in the same time regions.

n_palum

I think it'd be nice to know, and some members have their locations on their profiles. But I don't think you should outright ignore nominees based off their time zones.

stack reader

03:23

Japan here. So active at the same time as australia/asia/india etc.

Jamal Senjaya

04:33

@stackreader The same time region with me, I'm Indonesian.

Mithrandir

05:10

@JamalSenjaya there's no need to choose based on that. (I'm located in the Middle East.)

Jamal Senjaya

I'm not choosing someone in my timezone. I just said stack reader have the same timezone with me.

Mithrandir

> We have to avoid choosing moderators in the same time regions

That's what I meant.

Marius

06:22

@JamalSenjaya If you invested 1 minute of your time to click on all 6 candidates' profiles you would see that everyone has a location added to it. Also, location should not be among the most important criteria for electing a moderator. Moderators (as a group) should not be on alert 24h/day and take turns sleeping just so they can watch over the "kids" that MAY not behave. This is not a police state. It's a website destined for fun.

Moderators should intervene only when it is needed and it is the whole community's job to keep the website clean. Yes it would be nice to cover somehow as many timezones as possible, but this should be the last criterion in the list. I think that previous user behavior and proper English (or at least good English) are way more important that the place a user lives.

Oh and sorry...ALMOST everyone has a location attached to their profile. Well, technically everyone, but @Mithrandir is from a "different" timezone.

Mithrandir

@Marius :D

user61230

@JamalSenjaya To expand a bit on @Marius' good reply, since moderation is so community-driven on Stack Exchange, moderators don't need to be active at all times of the day. We don't perform the same role that moderators do in many other places, where such a thing is effectively required.

Techidiot

06:52

I've a question for candidates and current mod's - Is it a good practice to edit a very old question which has been already answered and has an accepted answer? How do you decide to deal with that - @Emrakul @Marius @Mithrandir @Glorfindel @stackreader @Deusovi @GentlePurpleRain Like for e.g. this was edited to correct a single word. I'm not sure sure if that's required or not (continue..)

though. But, would like to know if any action needs to be taken over them like we limit the modification (if not hugely relevant) to a few weeks or something like that?

Good puzzles are buried due to that..

Marius

@Techidiot You know what's not a good practice? Summoning 6 people in a chat that they will (should) visit anyway :D.

Glorfindel

@Techidiot that question was already edited earlier yesterday, so it was already on the front page. That's why I edited it.

Deusovi

I don't think we need to worry about it if it's infrequent. I agree that the edit is probably not necessary, but it's just one occurrence on one question.

Marius

Now seriously.... There is no silver bullet answer for this. It is always a good idea to edit typos, but it's not a good idea to edit a post just so you can move it up in the list

Techidiot

Haha.. Since you are a good candidate. I am giving you an impression of how many times we disturb the mods :p @Marius

Deusovi

06:54

And that. It's not hurting much.

Techidiot

Welcome @BrentHackers

Brent Hackers

Hi

Techidiot

@Deusovi I see it almost every day..A post from 2015 bumps up (just because there was minor edit made)

Marius

@Techidiot You don't need to show me that. I'm a moderator somewhere else. You don't know how many times and for what things I'm being "disturbed"

Techidiot

Yes. I am aware. :)

Yesterday, some user went on to modify 4-5 questions.. just to make http related changes(which might be a bot or something) but the edits were serially done..which buried the newer/recent puzzles

Marius

06:57

just edit the new puzzle and bump it

Deusovi

Nope, not a bot. And we talked to that user about it in TSL. ("We" as in the community, not the mods in particular, though we would if it became necessary.)

@Marius Edits purely for bumping are frowned upon.

Mithrandir

@Techidiot I actually don't see any problem, as long as you aren't flooding. Constructive edits are good; just don't flood everything. You also get some new eyes on old puzzles, that people might find interesting.

Marius

and honestly, there aren't that many new puzzles per day to say they were "buried".

@Deusovi It was a joke. I should start using some markup for this from now on

Deusovi

Ah, alright - I couldn't tell. I'm bad at detecting sarcasm

Techidiot

No problems. Atleast, I got an idea about it. Thank you.

Glorfindel

06:59

@Techidiot Mithrandir warned that person in another chatroom and they're aware now, and even posted a nice puzzle.

Marius

don't worry...I'm bad at marking sarcasm. You should see the troubles I get in at work for this </sarcasm>

stack reader

yes, someone went on a http->https edit spree so I alerted the mod and he got warned yesterday.... but when it's just the casual edit, not much can be done. Especially during the hat event where people go nuts on edits for hats.

Techidiot

@Glorfindel Yes. And there was another edit after the warning followed by a nice puzzle :)

Marius

from your comments in here about the "troubles" caused on PSE, I conclude that PSE doens't have enough problems. You should see the tech sites. Spam, stupid questions, stupid answers, stupid questions in the answers area. A few edits (wrong or right) don't mean that much.

Deusovi

Oh, there are problems. Just not the same types of problems.

Marius

07:03

I'm sure there are, I'm just trying to say that a few edits don't represent a big problem

stack reader

We are lucky we even have such tiny flooding problems when you compare with the big communities that flood good questions with more new questions at an unbelievable speed.

Techidiot

A Piranha in a small river is dangerous than it is in a sea ;)

Deusovi

Yeah - if we were bigger, the site would be essentially unusable because the good puzzles wouldn't get much recognition without being advertised in chat.

Marius

@stackreader My point exactly. Here are my moderator stats for today (regarding flags) on magento.stackexchange. And it's just 10 AM for me

Mithrandir

You don't have Outspoken yet?

Brent Hackers

07:06

That's me withdrawn. Plenty of better candidates appeared shortly after me. Ah well :)

Mithrandir

O_o

Glorfindel

@Deusovi from my nomination Puzzling is a small but healthy site, and I'd like it to stay healthy. I didn't mention growth, because growth by itself isn't a good thing.

Marius

@Mithrandir There is not much chatting on the magento website.

Mithrandir

16 hours ago, by GentlePurpleRain

@n_palum If everyone had the attitude of "I won't bother, because I don't think I'll win," we wouldn't have very many nominations. Make your decision based on whether you would like to be a moderator and think you would do a good job; not on anybody else.

Techidiot

@BrentHackers You don't need to underestimate yourself :) Everyone has a common goal here.

Marius

07:07

@BrentHackers what the hell man? you signed up one day and quit the next one just because someone else threw his/her name in the hat? what the hell

Deusovi

^

I wouldn't put it so harshly, but I think you should stay in if you feel comfortable with it.

stack reader

I feel like you @BrentHackers but I won't give up. when I saw the election post I got a sudden surge of ambition and motivation for doing something... more. I won't give up until the end.

Mithrandir

@stackreader I noticed that you popped up at Charcoal HQ :)

Techidiot

Keep up the spirit you all. I am happy to see people nominating themselves for a good cause :)

Deusovi

You make us sound like some sort of charity. :P

2

stack reader

07:11

even if I lose, it feels like a good experience. I already feel closer to the community than ever before.

Techidiot

Haha :D

stack reader

yes. thanks to you @Mithrandir I didn't even know it existed until you mentioned it yesterday haha.... kindof a cool place.

Mithrandir

@stackreader you used to get a t-shirt if you lost, but not anymore

Deusovi

huh, really? interesting

stack reader

@Mithrandir seriously??? where that budget come from haha

Deusovi

07:12

I'm wearing my Puzzling t-shirt now, actually. It's a nice shirt.

Techidiot

@Deusovi It's kind of charity. Working for a good cause with no ROI is considered as a charity work. I am a mod on very small forum and people tell me that I spend time doing charity work..

Glorfindel

@Mithrandir I'm still waiting for a T-shirt I'd get for testing this year's Developer Survey ...

Techidiot

But, for a mod ROI is happy users and happy community :)

Marius

@BrentHackers Every football team manager in Spain except Real, Barca and Atletico: "Guys, we don't stand a chance in winning the championship. Let's all stay home". How would that be?

Techidiot

Just remember what happened with Leicester City last year :)

Marius

07:14

@Techidiot RIIIIIGHT. ha ha

stack reader

@Marius that would be hilarious.

Mithrandir

@stackreader when the network was much smaller :P

boboquack

@Deusovi Do they send the T-shirt to the address you (choose to) provide, or do they ask you personally?

Marius

@stackreader maybe for you, but not for the TV stations that make money

Deusovi

They ask personally.

(Otherwise they'd be sending shirts off to nonspecific and/or fictional locations, which would be... difficult.)

Brent Hackers

07:16

...I don't care about being a moderator so much as what happens to the site. If someone else is going to do a better job, I don't want it.

Marius

<sarcasm>good point. Let's all give up</sarcasm>

Mithrandir

I can just imagine them trying to send a shirt to Tauremornalómë...

Techidiot

There you go..:p Nice markups

Brent Hackers

@Marius I didn't see it as a competition so I wouldn't get competitive. I'd rather it go to the best person for the job.

boboquack

Locations of potential moderators this year so far: Bucharest, Romania; Tauremornalómë; Ermelo, The Netherlands; Japan; South Carolina, United States

(Sorry Marius)

Marius

07:19

@BrentHackers don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning your motives, I just think it's not the right attitude

Techidiot

The one from South Carolina, if he is here, should get some good night's sleep :)

Marius

@boboquack Sorry for what? I like Bucharest, don't feel sorry about me :D

boboquack

[Oh, and Chicago, IL, United States, because Rubio said they are going to run in favour of banning Rubio]

@Marius I missed you out in the first list

Mithrandir

@Marius all of the stats for today on my site show exactly the same thing for everyone...

Brent Hackers

@Marius I feel the same about you. You're one of the better options that I was referring to but I don't like people with an 'in it to win it' mentality, as opposed to someone who just wants to see Puzzling do well as a site.

boboquack

07:22

@Mithrandir [Joins lit and flags something]

Mithrandir

@boboquack declines :P

Techidiot

I have a question for the candidates running in Non-US time zone..What happens if we have a situation to deal at this time of the day? Will you wait for other mods to arrive or will you solely take the decision? The situation needs immediate attention :)

Marius

@BrentHackers let me put it this way : "You get an award you don't deserve, you don't give it back. You live up to it". Anyway, I respect your decision but I don't understand it and don't condone it.

Glorfindel

@Techidiot If it needs immediate attention, then no doubt I would take the decision.

boboquack

@Techidiot Should've put it into the questionnaire. Seriously, though, Deus is virtually always around no matter what time it is except for when he was in hospital.

Mithrandir

07:24

@Techidiot if it needs immediate action, it'll probably be really obvious what to do. So...

(and when in doubt, there's the room for all the mods on the network)

Glorfindel

And two mods from non-US timezones might get elected...

Techidiot

Oh. Sounds nice to know they have a room for all.

Brent Hackers

@Marius How very American. I like to think I did the right thing. Nothing to "condone".

Marius

ha ha

Techidiot

Election is a good time to get to know people more. :)

stack reader

07:27

If it needs immediate attention, then it's what it will get. If it is a very serious matter that really should be discussed first, then maybe take some temporary actions like put on hold instead of delete etc...

Techidiot

One more question -

stack reader

shoot

boboquack

@Mithrandir TO ALL POTENTIAL MODS: A mod has just abused their power. What would you do about it?

Mithrandir

@stackreader almost everything can be reversed. I think that the CMs even undeleted a user once.

Techidiot

Now that we have a permission to let users use private room to collaborate on making puzzles. What if something goes wrong in that room? Also, we have an additional room for a game called contact which belongs to PSE. Are you going to spare some time monitoring those rooms as well? In case if a mod attention is required there?

Mithrandir

07:29

@boboquack get the CMs

Brent Hackers

@Boboquack Good one.

boboquack

@Mithrandir And what can they do? Accept the flag? Will they de-mod you just because you declined one flag?

Glorfindel

@Techidiot I'd probably check in periodically. If anything goes wrong, one of the users will probably use chat flags anyway.

Mithrandir

@Techidiot in chat, every mod on the network is a mod - as can be seen, I. I'm blue. If you raise a chat mod flag, one of several hundred mods will arrive.

Glorfindel

Even 10k users will see the chat flags, they don't need to be moderators.

Techidiot

07:32

Okay. But, I think there was a advice given to flag on PSE instead of chats due to that reason..

Mithrandir

@Glorfindel if you need a mod, you can raise a special mod flag.

@boboquack well, how do you define 'abuse'?

Marius

@boboquack Take it to the SE super-mods.

boboquack

@Mithrandir Taken unfair advantage to someone's detriment

Marius

133

Q: What recourse do I have if I believe a moderator has abused his/her privileges?

One or more of the following things happened to me on a Stack Exchange site: My post(s) were wrongly deleted or locked by a moderator A moderator posted a wrong comment to one of my posts I was suspended, but did not do anything wrong I asked a meta-question, but the question was closed and/or ...

Techidiot

So, its better to discuss with other mod's. Isn't it?

Before heading to the seniors?

Brent Hackers

07:35

Huh... the textbook answer... nice.

Glorfindel

@Techidiot yeah, I'd prefer an 'internal' discussion within the moderator team in case I suspect a colleague moderator of abusive behaviour.

As a normal user, you don't have that option and you can use the Meta question linked by Marius.

Techidiot

Well, there are times when we are disappointed due to personal issues, and may perform an unethical/unwanted action. So, I think it will be better to resolve it internally

Okay. I am done with my questions for now. Thanks all for answering them. Will come up with other questions in case I have any. All the best till then :)

Marius

I just realized something...the first step when confronted with a problem "As a moderator how would you.....?" is "Search meta.stackexchange.com"

Brent Hackers

@Marius The stackexchange equivalent to googling every life problem you ever face... I approve.

Marius

@BrentHackers. From this chat I conclude that you would handle most of the issues, like I would. Does this mean I should pull put of the moderator's election also, or that you have to get back in? :D

Brent Hackers

07:42

@Marius Like a dog with a bone...

Marius

Sorry, but the ball was lifted at the net. I had to shoot. I will stop now. I promise.

boboquack

Hey, I've just found a duplicate while cleaning up the iq-test tag. Can others inspect my decision to VTD?

Brent Hackers

@Marius that's the second sports reference that's been lost on me in this chat... I assume it's a sport reference anyway.

Marius

voleyball

boboquack

(And tomorrow hopefully the accursed tag should be rid)

Techidiot

07:45

@boboquack Nice find.

Yes, that's a solid dupe IMO.

Brent Hackers

Wooo. I was right!

Mithrandir

@boboquack linky?

Techidiot

1

Q: Raven's progressive matrices test

I found this question while doing an official Mensa practice test. Please fill in the bottom right blank window with one of the 6 possible answers depicted below the horizontal line.

pattern

Mithrandir

yep, dupe

Brent Hackers

So would silly, nonsensical and/or unproductive (but potentially enlightening) candidate questions be welcome/allowed here?

Mithrandir

07:48

...sure, in chat, I guess...

Glorfindel

@boboquack that's not Vote To Delete, but Vote To Duplicate, right?

Brent Hackers

e.g. What would candidates do if they were kidnapped and held in the port town of a group of Andorran pirates, and as such they were unable to access the interned to moderate the site?

Techidiot

@BrentHackers We ll have 3 others. :p Also, they can make a puzzle which will help us locating them :D

And ask one of the kidnapper to post it and tell them they will get bounty rewards :p

Brent Hackers

@Techidiot I approve.

Mithrandir

@BrentHackers I would calmly and rationally explain the the pirates that I need to hit the moderator vacation button, and create a puzzle so that you can find me ^.^

Brent Hackers

07:50

@Mithrandir Nicely done...

Techidiot

@Mithrandir Do you have a normal keyboard or you have a keyboard with herbrew chars? Just curious

Glorfindel

I'd promise to bake waffles for them in exchange for Internet access. Everybody loves waffles ...

Mithrandir

@Techidiot I have a keyboard with both

Brent Hackers

@Glorfindel Creativity is an important moderator trait.

Techidiot

Oh.. Nice. @Mithrandir

Baking is very creative I think..

Brent Hackers

07:52

So is solving problems with waffles

Techidiot

Yeah. That sounds better

Sid

"I think recently someone without experience was elected for something, but I cannot remember exactly what and where was is." - Marius.

Techidiot

That puzzle should have been closed as dupe right? We still need one vote. I thought we have enough people to close that.

Sid

I am sure you remember exactly what and where. :P

Brent Hackers

@Sid Nice...

Sid

07:57

On a more serious note, I have a question for our candidates.

Brent Hackers

I have a few more silly ones... But you should go ahead @Sid

Sid

We were recently having a problem with a user in chat. Now, imagine that neither Deus nor GPR nor any of the ROs are present at that time, How would you deal with a user who is being a pain in the ... for other people especially when you are not sure if it is the same guy?

Brent Hackers

For the record though, I'd have given bonus points to anyone who pointed out that pirates operating out of an Andorran port would be unlikely...

Glorfindel

@BrentHackers I assume they'd be Andorran-born pirates who operated out of a French or Spanish port town. Or space pirates.

Brent Hackers

@Glorfindel heh... yeah... I should have worded it different but it came off the top of my head...

Mithrandir

08:01

@Sid if they're bothering a user, they can be kicked, even if it's not the same guy. As mods, we would also have access to the same tools that GPR and Deus have at the moment on the main site.

Glorfindel

@Sid I'd remind them to Be Nice, and if they're not, they'll get a (initially short) chat suspension.

Mithrandir

@BrentHackers I assumed we were talking about space pirates too.

Brent Hackers

@Mithrandir PHT! Andorrans don't even have a space program! There's lateral thinking and then there's just plain fantast :P

Mithrandir

@BrentHackers memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Andor

Brent Hackers

Ahem... That would be and Andoran, not an Andorran... (but actually, that's very impressively nerdy @Mithrandir )

Mithrandir

08:07

@BrentHackers (actually, in-universe they're referred to as Andorian... but yeah :P)

boboquack

@Glorfindel Yep (I'm not 10k yet :P)

Mithrandir

11:53

6 candidates. If 5 (I think) more people nominate, we'll have a primary.

Glorfindel

12:13

correct.

n_palum

@Mithrandir I think Rubio is just devising some grand nomination (or everyone assumed he'd run and he actually doesn't want to)

I'm also still on the fence, and Gareth may be too

Also people are still voting up Q&A stuff and making them uneven.

Glorfindel

12:32

@n_palum I didn't realize that was a problem. The last election I watched closely (on Stack Overflow) it more or less served as an indication for the primary; you upvote the candidates with which you largely agree and downvote if you don't. FWIW, I abstained from voting on the questionnaire because I'm taking part in it.

n_palum

21 hours ago, by GentlePurpleRain

A reminder to everyone: the nomination phase is not a voting phase. Let's try to keep the votes even on all nominations. When it comes to voting, you can pick your candidate(s).

The pin on the right, I asked GPR about it yesterday and as far as I am aware we are supposed to keep them even so they stay in a somewhat random order.

Glorfindel

Ah, that's here in the chatroom. People might not read that, and it's not mentioned in the question itself.

Probably because it's a convention here, and not a general SE rule (as far as I am aware).

@GentlePurpleRain could you edit that into the question? People might not visit the chatroom and miss this message.

n_palum

Most likely - I think that is up to GPR or whomever if that should be edited in.

Mithrandir

14:44

Just left a whole bunch of comments under JMP's questionnaire answers. We'll see how that goes...

n_palum

I think they're all fair questions. Their responses left a lot open to questions

Mithrandir

If you've got any questions like that for me, please ask :P

Sconibulus

Yeah, those answers didn't exactly fill me with confidence

Mithrandir

@Glorfindel I left a comment.

Sconibulus

Brent pulled out?

GentlePurpleRain

14:53

@Glorfindel It looks like Mithrandir just added a comment on the question to that effect.

Mithrandir

8 hours ago, by Brent Hackers

That's me withdrawn. Plenty of better candidates appeared shortly after me. Ah well :)

@GentlePurpleRain VTC, dupe

GentlePurpleRain

@Mithrandir I guess I should finish reading the chat before responding... I would VTC as well, but I don't want to abuse my modhammer... :P

n_palum

19:04

<*sighs*> I did it...

Mithrandir

@n_palum nice!

n_palum

19:32

My original intro writeup was a bit longer than allowed.. so I cut out a lot...

Like 1000 characters too long apparently @_@

Mithrandir

Yes, that was really annoying...

n_palum

I have it saved in case

Mithrandir

You can like put in a Google Doc and put a link in the comments

n_palum

Hm.. Maybe

Transcript for

Puzzling 2017 Moderator Election Chat