Jelly Hypertraining

DJMcMayhem

16:00

Oh

You don't actually know what's wrong?

Erik the Outgolfer

well xẋ is always confusing...I'll investigate

caird coinheringaahing

@NoahCristino if you add ŒṘ to the end, you can see what it is actually producing

DJMcMayhem

Hmm, Ok

Erik the Outgolfer

@DJMcMayhem found it

DJMcMayhem

What is it?

Noah Cristino

16:01

that's weird

Erik the Outgolfer

@DJMcMayhem the first two links execute first and then the third link gets their result as an argument

Noah Cristino

I thought “#” x 5 would be #####

DJMcMayhem

So it's actually monad(dyad(nilad, a))?

Erik the Outgolfer

@cairdcoinheringaahing or better µŒṘ

@DJMcMayhem yeah

caird coinheringaahing

@EriktheOutgolfer I'm just quoting the tutorial

DJMcMayhem

16:02

OK, thanks

Is that standard?

Erik the Outgolfer

well the first two links form a nilad-dyad pair and then the third link acts as a monad on its own

although my experience is that it shouldn't happen on monadic chains

DJMcMayhem

OK, well now I'm down to 7

But I can't see any possible way to make it shorter

Noah Cristino

so

how would I do

caird coinheringaahing

@DJMcMayhem what do you have?

Noah Cristino

#x5

to get #####

DJMcMayhem

16:04

Wait, can I see the original text of the challenge?

caird coinheringaahing

@DJMcMayhem its in the "Easy challenges to try" link in the room description

Erik the Outgolfer

> Draw a right triangle with equal perpendicular sides of length N. You must use a not necessarily consistent non-whitespace char.

DJMcMayhem

Cool. I'm down to 6 now

Erik the Outgolfer

what's your code?

Noah Cristino

me>

?

DJMcMayhem

16:05

spoilers

Erik the Outgolfer

@NoahCristino no dj

Noah Cristino

k

Erik the Outgolfer

@DJMcMayhem oh you're doing a trivial mistake there

caird coinheringaahing

@NoahCristino “#”x5 outputs #####

Mr. Xcoder

I want to solve something else. The Fizz-Buzz one is impossible for me as of now.

DJMcMayhem

16:06

@EriktheOutgolfer And that is?

Mr. Xcoder

What should I try next?

DJMcMayhem

I really suspect that <swap> isn't necessary

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder I'd ask Erik for a challenge

Noah Cristino

but “#”ẋŒḄŒṘ

outputs

Erik the Outgolfer

@DJMcMayhem well, you could take advantage of dyad-nilad or nilad-dyad pairs

Mr. Xcoder

16:07

@EriktheOutgolfer Can you give me a new CMC?

Noah Cristino

['#', '#', '#', '#', '#', '#', '#', '#', '#']

one hashtag per number

caird coinheringaahing

@NoahCristino could you wrap you code in backticks like `this` so that its easier to read please?

Erik the Outgolfer

@NoahCristino because you're missing something

Noah Cristino

what do you mean erik?

DJMcMayhem

@EriktheOutgolfer OK, let's see if I understand either of those. A nilad-dyad would compute dyad(nilad, a), and dyad-nilad would compute dyad(a, nilad)? Or does it depend on whatever comes next?

Erik the Outgolfer

16:08

@DJMcMayhem correct

DJMcMayhem

So what comes after the pair has no effect on parsing?

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer ?

caird coinheringaahing

@NoahCristino what your code is getting evaluated as is: times the string by the argument then bounce the string

Erik the Outgolfer

@DJMcMayhem well there are edge cases

Noah Cristino

oh

DJMcMayhem

16:09

@EriktheOutgolfer That's unfortunate

caird coinheringaahing

@NoahCristino you need to move the ŒḄ

Noah Cristino

ya

Erik the Outgolfer

@DJMcMayhem basically it's left-to-right precedence

Noah Cristino

ŒḄẋ“#”ŒṘ

outputs nothing

I wrapped in backticks

and nothing happened

Mr. Xcoder

@NoahCristino You must move ẋ

Noah Cristino

16:12

why?

caird coinheringaahing

@NoahCristino wrap the code here is backticks, not when you actually write it

Mr. Xcoder

@NoahCristino Because you never put the dyad before x.

Noah Cristino

I did wrap it here caird

Erik the Outgolfer

Welcome to our class, Business Cat!

Business Cat

I managed to complete this challenge in 5 bytes

caird coinheringaahing

16:13

@NoahCristino when you post it here, wrap it in backticks (like you did), but when you actually code, don't wrap in backticks, unless you need the backtick commnd

Noah Cristino

But I swapped it @Mr.Xcoder

DJMcMayhem

Oh duh!

It's all so obvious now!

Noah Cristino

@cairdcoinheringaahing I know

DJMcMayhem

I've got it :)

Mr. Xcoder

@NoahCristino You are missing something

Business Cat

16:13

It was... interesting

Noah Cristino

I have ŒḄẋ“#”

right now

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer Are you ignoring me?

Business Cat

There's a way that can be shortened by 1 fairly trivially

Noah Cristino

where's the docs on ẋ

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder he seems to have gone AFK

Mr. Xcoder

16:14

@NoahCristino Atoms

Erik the Outgolfer

@Mr.Xcoder sorry had to accept an access request

Mr. Xcoder

@NoahCristino Look at Syntax, for 1-character strings.

Noah Cristino

I think I should't use

ẋ

Mr. Xcoder

@NoahCristino You should.

Noah Cristino

since that repeats the list

DJMcMayhem

16:15

@EriktheOutgolfer So to make sure I understand, <dyad>@<nilad> works by swapping the operands, so instead of dyad(a, nilad) you get dyad(nilad, a), but in a nilad-dyad pair, the nilad will always be the left argument, so <nilad><dyad> is basically the same thing?

Noah Cristino

but I can't repeat the list # times

I need each element repeated

“#”ẋŒḄ

Erik the Outgolfer

@DJMcMayhem usually you can use <nilad><dyad> instead

except if it would be ambiguous

Noah Cristino

only outputs 1 # per element

Mr. Xcoder

@NoahCristino Wrong order

DJMcMayhem

Cool

Noah Cristino

16:16

I just flipped

Erik the Outgolfer

no right order

DJMcMayhem

The solution is quite beautiful, now that I understand it :)

Erik the Outgolfer

@NoahCristino do you know about jelly pairs?

Noah Cristino

cuz it's Repeat list x y times.

no @EriktheOutgolfer

DJMcMayhem

Spoilers would work if the input is < 10 :P

Mr. Xcoder

16:17

@NoahCristino ẋ is not the problem here, it's the order.

@DJMcMayhem :) Interesting.

caird coinheringaahing

@DJMcMayhem I tried it with 100 :) Too many 0's!

Erik the Outgolfer

@NoahCristino you can read on the tutorial about pair

DJMcMayhem

I gtg

Mr. Xcoder

@NoahCristino Hint: z<monad>, x<dyad>y.

Erik the Outgolfer

@DJMcMayhem bye

DJMcMayhem

16:19

Thanks for all the help!

Mr. Xcoder

@DJMcMayhem Bye!

Erik the Outgolfer

@NoahCristino let me explain pairs

Noah Cristino

oh

ŒḄ

needs to be flipped

Business Cat

Spoiler my 5-byte solution

Erik the Outgolfer

for example, (monad)(nilad)(dyad) would be broken as (monad) (nilad)(dyad)

Noah Cristino

16:20

I get it

(input here)ŒḄ

Erik the Outgolfer

in short, (nilad)(dyad) is a pair

Noah Cristino

but it's taking in the multiplication

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer After you finish the pair explanation to Noah, I'd be delighted to get a Challenge recommendation.

Erik the Outgolfer

(v)(nilad)(dyad) would be equivalent to (nilad)(dyad)(v) with (v) being the current value

@Mr.Xcoder alright

Noah Cristino

k

Erik the Outgolfer

16:22

@Mr.Xcoder challenge: the architect who got it wrong!

@NoahCristino except that it has a different precedence

description of mr. xcoder's challenge:

for N=3 you have to return this:

#
#
 #
#
 #
  #

N=4

#
#
 #
#
 #
  #
#
 #
  #
   #

@Mr.Xcoder get it?

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer Thanks :)

@EriktheOutgolfer I think I do, yeah

Erik the Outgolfer

basically an architect built the stairs but people started banging their heads

@NoahCristino what's your progress?

Noah Cristino

I'm confused

so

“#”ẋŒḄ

the x needs them in this order

Erik the Outgolfer

use pairs

Noah Cristino

but ŒḄ

needs input on the left

Erik the Outgolfer

16:25

remember the (monad)(nilad)(dyad) example?

Noah Cristino

one sec

Erik the Outgolfer

also it's preferred to wrap your code in ``s when posting here

btw ”# is better than “#” in this case

Mr. Xcoder

@NoahCristino Compare backticks and non-backticks:

code here

code here

Noah Cristino

oh

i didn't see a difference at first

Erik the Outgolfer

@NoahCristino figured it out yet?

Noah Cristino

16:27

but “#”ẋŒḄ

I mean

“#”ẋŒḄ is nil dy mon

Mr. Xcoder

Why does Jelly automatically turn [1] into 1! It destroys Me!

Noah Cristino

not mon nil dy

Erik the Outgolfer

@Mr.Xcoder ŒṘ

@NoahCristino so make it be so

like, reorder them

Noah Cristino

but if dylad

is at the end

it can't take 2 args

I got it

ŒḄ“#”ẋ

Erik the Outgolfer

@NoahCristino yes!

Noah Cristino

16:29

But how does that work??

caird coinheringaahing

@EriktheOutgolfer why isn't there a prepend command?

Erik the Outgolfer

@cairdcoinheringaahing dunno

Noah Cristino

how does x take in
ŒḄ

Erik the Outgolfer

because “#”ẋ is a nilad-dyad pair, ẋ's right argument is the current value

it's a jelly feature

Noah Cristino

oh

what do you mean current value

nvm

Erik the Outgolfer

16:31

that means you don't have to append an $ either

ok so your code rn is ŒḄ“#”ẋ

now what's the final step?

Noah Cristino

print

[#, ##, ###, ##, #]

as:

#

##

###

##

#

Erik the Outgolfer

yes

Noah Cristino

do I need V

Erik the Outgolfer

V is jelly eval not sure why you need that

Business Cat

@cairdcoinheringaahing ṭ?

Noah Cristino

16:33

If z is a list, it maps Python's str function to all of z's elements, concatenates them and then eval's the result

Erik the Outgolfer

@BusinessCat no

Noah Cristino

oops read that wrong

Mr. Xcoder

@NoahCristino Search for join

caird coinheringaahing

@BusinessCat that appends, adds to the end

Erik the Outgolfer

search for newline

Business Cat

16:34

Appends x to y

Noah Cristino

ŒḄ“#”ẋY

caird coinheringaahing

Uṭ<x>U would prepend

Noah Cristino

yay

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer Nope, search for linefeed

Business Cat

Or you could just do ;@?

Mr. Xcoder

16:34

I have some interesting output:

Noah Cristino

tio.run/##AR0A4v9qZWxsef//xZLhuITigJwj4oCd4bqLWf///zEwMA

caird coinheringaahing

@EriktheOutgolfer dennis would never be that nice when writing the docs

Mr. Xcoder

#
###
######
##########

Noah Cristino

100 looks cool

Business Cat

@Mr.Xcoder How long is yours for the architect one?

HyperNeutrino

16:35

Ooh is there a training exercise going on right now?

Mr. Xcoder

@BusinessCat I am not done yet

Erik the Outgolfer

@HyperNeutrino actually two

Mr. Xcoder

Have you already solved it?

caird coinheringaahing

@HyperNeutrino 3 or 4 different ones

Noah Cristino

@HyperNeutrino look at this: tio.run/##AR0A4v9qZWxsef//xZLhuITigJwj4oCd4bqLWf///zEwMA

Business Cat

16:35

I have 12 bytes but it feels long

Erik the Outgolfer

@NoahCristino CORRECT!

Noah Cristino

I just did

this looks cool: tio.run/##AR0A4v9qZWxsef//xZLhuITigJwjJeKAneG6i1n///81MA

HyperNeutrino

Oh the right isoceles (?) triangle challenge

Erik the Outgolfer

@NoahCristino there's ⁾ for 2-char strings

Noah Cristino

oh

Erik the Outgolfer

16:37

@NoahCristino going back to the # version, how would you golf it?

Noah Cristino

one sec

um

can I shorten the string

Erik the Outgolfer

yes

> Draw a right triangle with equal perpendicular sides of length N. You must use a not necessarily consistent non-whitespace char.

Noah Cristino

removing ” messes it up

Erik the Outgolfer

@NoahCristino you don't just remove “

HyperNeutrino

Read the docs about the close quote mark.

Noah Cristino

16:38

I got it

Erik the Outgolfer

namely the previously linked syntax page

Noah Cristino

ŒḄ“”ẋY

HyperNeutrino

Er, not quite.

Erik the Outgolfer

@NoahCristino invalid

Noah Cristino

it technicly works

Business Cat

16:39

@EriktheOutgolfer Can I use any non-whitespace char?

Noah Cristino

just the characters are all blank

Erik the Outgolfer

yes

@NoahCristino that's the issue

empty string * 100 == empty string

you need a char

Noah Cristino

ŒḄ“ ”ẋY

Erik the Outgolfer

that's whitespace

Noah Cristino

what char is less than a byte?

HyperNeutrino

16:40

ŒḄ”#ẋY

Erik the Outgolfer

^

Noah Cristino

how does that work

HyperNeutrino

The docs state that the close quote when unmatched forms a character literal.

Noah Cristino

oh

HyperNeutrino

If there is no open quote, then the close quote is a 1-character string literal.

Noah Cristino

16:41

good to know

can I have another challenge @EriktheOutgolfer

Erik the Outgolfer

@NoahCristino wait a sec adding you and business cat to the catalog

sorry have to go now

caird coinheringaahing

@BusinessCat have you finished the architect one?

Business Cat

Yes but it still feels too long

11 bytes

HyperNeutrino

Which challenge is that?

caird coinheringaahing

I've got 11 bytes too

Business Cat

16:46

(12 if I have to use #)

caird coinheringaahing

@EriktheOutgolfer before you go, how long is the architect one?

Business Cat

My current solution is 11 bytes using 1 as the character

Noah Cristino

@HyperNeutrino can i have another challenge

caird coinheringaahing

@BusinessCat I've got 11 for #

Mr. Xcoder

Don't spoiler anything, I am not done yet with the architect one

Noah Cristino

16:47

or @cairdcoinheringaahing

Business Cat

Interesting

caird coinheringaahing

@NoahCristino Work through these and make a file with all your solutions in.

That's your "homework" :P

If you need help, feel free to ping us

Mr. Xcoder

I generated the "Stair" for one input, I must loop now to add it for each

HyperNeutrino

Let me think of one.

Noah Cristino

ok

caird coinheringaahing

16:49

@BusinessCat what's your solution?

Mr. Xcoder

I now have 8 bytes without generating all

Pls wait,I finish now.

Don't spoiler yet

Business Cat

Sorry

caird coinheringaahing

@BusinessCat remove it

Mr. Xcoder

I didn't catch that, fortunately :)

I wouldn't have looked anyway

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder ping us when you've finished it, lets golf together! :P

Business Cat

16:51

Why can I not make a spoiler link like that?

Mr. Xcoder

Ok

@BusinessCat I don't wanna be tempted to click

Business Cat

Fair enough

caird coinheringaahing

@BusinessCat if we've both got 11 bytes, with different methods, then 10 bytes must be possible

HyperNeutrino

Given a positive integer, generate the list [1, 2, 4, 8, 16, ...] up to 2 ** n.

Mr. Xcoder

I currently have Ḷ⁶ẋ;€”#Y, must only repeat now

caird coinheringaahing

16:52

@HyperNeutrino for Noah? I already gave him the easy challenges to try

HyperNeutrino

No for all of you. This seems a bit too easy though so I might make a better one.

Noah Cristino

i'll try that one

nvm

Mr. Xcoder

@HyperNeutrino Done, 3 bytes

Noah Cristino

after I finish caird's

DJMcMayhem

Done

Also three bytes

HyperNeutrino

16:55

Nice. OK.

DJMcMayhem

But hey, I got to use my new knowledge of nilad-dyad pairs, so that's not too bad

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing @BusinessCat Can you help me incorporate this for a range: Ḷ⁶ẋ;€”#Y?

Anyone?

Business Cat

Hmmm trickier than it looks

Noah Cristino

ÆḞ

isn't showing up

in my notepad++

it's Æ?

Business Cat

Ok nvm I got it

Mr. Xcoder

16:59

@BusinessCat Hyper's challenge or range-incorporation?

Business Cat

The range

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