Jelly Hypertraining

Determine why these can be done in 0 bytes:
Evaluate a valid Python literal and listify it (e.g. f([‘1’,’,’])=[1])
Execute valid Python code (e.g. f([‘a’, ‘=’. ‘1’, ‘;’, ‘p’, ‘r’, ‘i’, ‘n’, ‘t’, ‘(‘, ‘a’, ‘+’, ‘1’, ‘)’])=[] plus 2\n on STDOUT)

very interested ;-) because they are the default? just a guess

Unrelated String

if you can't read bnf the takeaway is ı makes complex literals, ȷ is scientific notation, and everything else is what you'd expect except you can't parse a leading 0 (so you get two separate nilads)

bingo
jelly just straight up python evals its command line arguments then "jellifies" the results to align with its type system

Number Basher

6:59 AM

i mean i dont see any other case it would make sense

@UnrelatedString why

Unrelated String

never served a ton of purpose in the first place + erik's not been around

Number Basher

ok

"A niladic function (nilad) takes zero (0) arguments, a monadic function (monad) takes one (1) argument, and a dyadic function (dyad) takes two (2) arguments.

are thesenames madeup

specifically for jelly?

PyGamer0

i dont think those names are made up

Number Basher

" The last link (separated by newlines or ¶)

Does this mean like every ¶ acts as a \n

?

PyGamer0

no, they seem made up...

@NumberBasher i think so

Number Basher

7:03 AM

and um how does someone type a jelly program...

with a mac...

PyGamer0

you can always try it online

@NumberBasher copy pasting is what everyone does

i am pretty sure all characters are typable with US INTL layout

yeah

in The Nineteenth Byte, Apr 17 at 4:19, by Radvylf Programs

I really like what Jelly does, with all of its codepage being typeable on a single keyboard layout (US-INTL)

Number Basher

OK

I just typed my username without the space and runner it and got...

...ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!! HOORAY!!!

Unrelated String

won't stop me from relying on a bookmarklet that misses several characters :P

Number Basher

wait no

my username actually product an output

[1, 0]

:-)

Unrelated String

:)

PyGamer0

7:06 AM

@NumberBasher there is also Adám's language bars: abrudz.github.io/lb/jelly

Number Basher

A little test makes me think whitespace is irrelevant

?

edit: spaces

not whitespace

Unrelated String

yep

spaces do absolutely nothing except break up tokens

(outside string literals ofc)

so you'll only see them as restricted-source noops or in fringe cases with numeric literals

Number Basher

ok so you most of the time don't use ' ' in golfing

Unrelated String

yeah

Number Basher

unless a question needs you to output that

or you want to lower your score...:-)

" Jelly is 1-indexed, meaning that the first index in a list is 1 and the last index is the length. Index access in lists wraps around, so 0 refers to the last element, and index 5 in a length-3 list points to the second value.

yet another 1-index like julia

Unrelated String

7:09 AM

spaces being so nice visually is why i'm planning for them to be the equivalent µ in my own wip^3 golflang :P

yep

PyGamer0

~~best way to understand jelly is to make your own clone and modify it like i did with flax~~

Unrelated String

i think it's partially apl heritage (forget what the default ⎕IO is but the fact you can set it says enough) and also just not-found-is-falsy

Number Basher

i dont understand

.ȷ. is 1.5811388300841898

i thought . is 1/2?

PyGamer0

i wonder why index origin is 1 in jelly..

Number Basher

"Exercise: what does -. evaluate to?

is it -0.5?

PyGamer0

7:12 AM

try it and find out!

Number Basher

um... how...

Unrelated String

index origin is always 0 in j but dennis probably thought it would be useful for i to have a use as a flipped version of e plus easier filtering of unfound elements and such

like this :)

Number Basher

@PyGamer0 i see it is 2.5^0.5 but why 2.5 ...?

still don't understand

Unrelated String

@NumberBasher 0.5 * 10**0.5 = sqrt(10)/2 = sqrt(10/4)

Number Basher

oh

is this chat dead?

Unrelated String

7:25 AM

the activity is sporadic

there's not a lot of regular jelly learners so a lot of the activity is when more experienced golfers find something weird to share

Number Basher

" using dictionary-compressed strings

i want to know the inner dynamics ;-)

Unrelated String

hyper can probably explain those satisfactorily

Number Basher

is there any resourse

onlinr

oh

jht.hyper-neutrino.xyz/misc/string-compressor

never mind

is there a decompressor?

Hello?

Unrelated String

it gives you a fully functional string literal that you can run as a full program

Number Basher

is there a decompressor?

Unrelated String

7:36 AM

jelly is the decompressor

the code for decompressing is buried in the source somewhere and i can find it if you want to try reading it ig

github.com/DennisMitchell/jellylanguage/blob/…

Number Basher

oh wait

are strings default printed

they should've mentioned it

Unrelated String

anything is

Number Basher

@UnrelatedString they should've mentioned it, did they?

Unrelated String

oh yeah wait does the tutorial actually not mention implicit output

Number Basher

jht.hyper-neutrino.xyz/beginners

Unrelated String

7:39 AM

i feel like it has to somewhere but i can't find it lmao

Number Basher

At least not before it was used

Let's begin with a very simple program - Hello World. To get started, head over to the online Jelly executor on this site or Try It Online! (created by Dennis).

In Jelly, strings begin with “ and end with ”. So, the most basic solution would be this:

“Hello, World!”

Hello?

Unrelated String

distinct opening and closing quotes since there's a lot of closing quotes and the opening quotes also create a list if used inside a string

string terminators in particular being 100% non ascii means you don't have to worry about escapes

the downside of that is there aren't escapes should you happen to need one of those characters but with the fixed length literals you can still manage

Number Basher

I think you should make a Mac-ffriendly Jelly that uses 1234567890-=qwertyuiop[]\asdfghjkl;'zxcvbnm,./~!@#$%^&*()_+QWERTYUIOP{}|ASDFGHJKL:"ZXCVBNM<>?¡™£¢∞§¶•ªº–≠œ∑´®†¥¨ˆøπ“‘«åß∂ƒ©˙∆˚¬…æΩ≈ç√∫˜µ≤≥÷`⁄€‹›ﬁﬂ‡°·‚—±Œ„´‰ˇÁ¨ˆØ∏”’»ÅÍÎÏ˝ÓÔÒÚÆ¸˛Ç◊ı˜Â¯˘¿

accessible with shift and option

Number Basher

8:05 AM

Hello?

Unrelated String

hi

Number Basher

I think you should make a Mac-ffriendly Jelly that uses 1234567890-=qwertyuiop[]\asdfghjkl;'zxcvbnm,./~!@#$%^&*()_+QWERTYUIOP{}|ASDFGHJKL:"ZXCVBNM<>?¡™£¢∞§¶•ªº–≠œ∑´®†¥¨ˆøπ“‘«åß∂ƒ©˙∆˚¬…æΩ≈ç√∫˜µ≤≥÷`⁄€‹›ﬁﬂ‡°·‚—±Œ„´‰ˇÁ¨ˆØ∏”’»ÅÍÎÏ˝ÓÔÒÚÆ¸˛Ç◊ı˜Â¯˘¿
accessible with shift and option

Unrelated String

not a terrible idea

Number Basher

i'm gonna do it some time

Unrelated String

maybe have a utility to convert that to the standard codepage or use it as the basis of a separate language

Number Basher

8:19 AM

basis of a separate language works for me

The Nineteenth Byte

The Nineteenth Byte: General discussion for codegolf.stackexc...

14

2

Unrelated String

9:40 AM

i have regrets

0

A: Haplololololololology!

Jelly, 42 bytes ịe⁾ - ṁƤẹḍL}+çɗ¥ƇḟL_ç¥€ḣ@¹Ḣȯ ŒṖÇƑÐḟẎLƊÞṪÇ€ Try it online! It's... not performant, but I'm reasonably confident it's actually correct this time! Updating the explanation later, because I'm half asleep at this point, and holding out hope there's a better way to do the last fix... ị...

emanresu A

Lol

Unrelated String

9:55 AM

in a day or two i also have a feeling this'll be another "unrelated string walked so jonathan allan could run"
because this is too complicated for any sane human being to want to do in jelly on their own initiative but you just know he's going to see this then think of some way to do it 7 bytes shorter

plus i basically took the relatively elegant core of a solution that didn't worry about spaces or hyphens and slapped on a series of three bandaid fixes to make it worry about spaces and hyphens

so it stands to reason there might be a considerably better way to do it that was designed to do so from the ground up

Number Basher

11:59 AM

lol

Unrelated String

9:54 PM

> some way to do it 7 bytes shorter

i swear i had not actually thought of a way to do it exactly 7 bytes shorter when i said that

Unrelated String

11:14 PM

(also it really feels like there should be a way to shave an additional byte off)

The Nineteenth Byte

Transcript for