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04:34
@Pizza Hi :-)
@JohnRennie Hi :)
Do you want to go through the problem?
If possible, yes
I agree with you on the first part. The GPE gets turned into KE and we can use v = rω to relate the linear and rotational motion.
Yes
04:39
For the second part the simple way to do this is to take the point of contact with the ramp as an instantaneous centre of revolution.
Is it obvious how to do this or shall I draw a diagram?
I don't quite understand, a diagram would be better
OK, give me a moment ...
@Pizza There
At the point 𝐴 the surface of the cylinder is stationary because it's in contact with the stationary ramp. So we can take this as the centre of rotation at the instant shown.
OK so far?
Yes
If we calculate the torque about A then we can use:
τ = Iₐα
to calculate the angular acceleration about A, where Iₐ is the moment of inertia about A. We can can use the parallel axis theorem to find Iₐ
Does this make sense so far?
Yes
04:50
And then the linear and angular acceleration are related by a = rα
So that's how I would do (b)
Ah, we need the static coefficient of friction as well.
Can you see how to get that or shall we go through it?
We can do it together pls
Are you happy you understand how to calculate the linear acceleration as I described above?
Yes, but would the inertia I have to use be that of the cylinder?
Do you know the parallel axis theorem for moments of inertia?
Huygens Steiner theorem?
04:56
Yes, though I must admit I didn't know that name. I've always known it as the parallel axis theorem. But Wikipedia tells me they are the same thing.
Ah okay
In this case we are considering the rotation of the cylinder about the point A, so Iₐ is the MOI of the cylinder about a point on its circumference:
Iₐ = ¹⁄₂mR² + mR²
Yes?
Yes
So a = Rα = Rτ/Iₐ
Yes?
Yes
05:00
OK :-)
Now from the second law we know Fᵣ = ma
where Fᵣ is the net force down the ramp.
Yes?
Yes
We have the gravitational force mg sinθ pointing down the ramp
And the force of static friction Fₛ pointing up the ramp.
Yes?
Yes
So the net force down the ramp is:
Fₙ = mg sinθ - Fₛ
Yes
05:03
And we can substitute Fₙ = ma to get:
ma = mg sinθ - Fₛ
Right
And we found a earlier, so we can solve this to get Fₛ then use Fₛ = μₛN
Okay
The value of μₛ we get this way is the minimum possible value of μₛ i.e. μₛ could be higher but it couldn't be smaller or the cylinder would slide instead of rolling.
Are you happy with part (b) now?
Yes
05:07
I think there is a misprint in part (c)
I think it should say:
> c) After what distance does the cylinder stop sliding if the dynamic friction coefficient of the surface BC is μ = 0.7
Exact
Although wait ... don't the linear and angular velocities match at B?
So I don't see why it should slide at all on the flat part ...
Hmm
There must be some mistake in (c) but I'm not sure what it is.
I tried to do it using suvat equations
I had first done it with work but then I discovered that it wasn't correct
16 hours ago, by Ryder Rude
@Pizza ok so the work done by friction on a rolling object is a complicated topic. it's not simply F*d
But I had done point b differently
But I don't see what linear force is acting along BC so I don't see what acceleration you would plug into the suvat equations.
If an object is in pure rolling then there is no frictional force.
I used friction because the text specified it
And then the velocity found in point a
05:16
But if the cylinder is in pure rolling there isn't any friction so the cylinder won't slow down.
It's strange, then the text is wrong
Yes, there must be a mistake in the question.
But is my point B also valid?
Just to know :)
What is your point B?
Point (b) : $fR = I \alpha$
Where $\alpha = \frac{a}{R}$
$fR = \frac{mR^2}{2} \cdot \frac{a}{R}$
$f = \frac{ma}{2}$
Now I write the force diagram
On the x axis : $-f + mg\sin(\theta) = ma$
On the y axis: $N = mg cos(\theta)$
So : $-\frac{ma}{2} + mgsin(\theta) = ma$
$a = \frac{2}{3}g \sin(\theta)$
$f = f_s = \mu_s \cdot N$
But : $f = \frac{ma}{2}$
$\mu_s mg \cos(\theta) = \frac{ma}{2}$
$\mu_s = \frac{ma}{2(mg\cos(\theta))}$
In the last three lines that $a$ I write would be the $a$ that I calculated above
This $a = \frac{2}{3}g \sin(\theta)$
05:32
My method and yours give the same result for 𝑎 :-)
Sorry, I forgot to ask you something first
What would be the moments about A?
50 mins ago, by John Rennie
user image
Torque is force times perpendicular distance from the pivot. Yes?
Yes
And the red line is the perpendicular distance to the pivot.
Yes?
Yes
We should do mg x distance
05:37
So the torque is:
τ = mgRsinθ
Yes
I = ³⁄₂mR²
I have all the data to calculate a
So we get:
α = τ/I = mgRsinθ / ³⁄₂mR² = ²⁄₃g sinθ/R
And α = a/R
a = ²⁄₃g sinθ
Yes!
A thousand thanks !
05:40
You're welcome :-)
06:08
@JohnRennie However, I read that below thsi exerercise It gave me this suggestion:
Tip: the moment of inertia of a cylinder with respect to the axis coinciding with the axis of longitudinal symmetry passing through the center of mass (the one perpendicular to the bases) is equal to $ I = \frac{mR^2}{2}$
Ah nothing, I thought It was referring to point c
I'll let you know if I find anything on this point
OK :-)
06:40
However, I don't really understand why "If an object is in pure rolling then there is no frictional force".
In point B we used friction
I should have said pure rolling on a horizontal surface
BC is horizontal so that applies.
@JohnRennie In this case why is there no friction force?
On a horizontal surface, there is a time when the cylinder stop
But the friction doesn't matter
When the cylinder is rolling on the horizontal surface BC there is no horizontal force due to gravity because the gravitational force is vertical.
If it had been a mass then the reasoning was different
So if the frictional force was non-zero that would mean there must be a non-zero horizontal force so the cylinder must be accelerating or decelerating.
And that must mean its KE is changing.
And that must mean something is doing work on it.
Yes?
06:55
Yes
But in pure rolling the bottom of the cylinder is stationary because it is in contact with the stationary floor. And that means any force acting at the contact point cannot do any work. Work can only be done by friction when the two surfaces slide over each other.
But if no work can be done that means the KE of the cylinder cannot change i.e. it must be moving at constant velocity.
And that means the net horizontal force must be zero.
Does this all make sense?
Oh I understand, yes
OK :-)
3 mins ago, by Pizza
If it had been a mass then the reasoning was different
If was a block then it would be sliding not rotating, and therefore the friction is doing work.
That's why a sliding block does slow to a halt but an object in pure rolling does not.
07:22
Hey @JohnRennie
@pi-π Hi :-)
@JohnRennie Please have a look at this : https://datascience.stackexchange.com/questions/129754/daily-balance-prediction-using-lstm-arima?noredirect=1#comment128372_129754
Any ideas on how to increase the prediction accuracy?
I don't know anything about data science. Sorry :-(
Okay.

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