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01:55
@sammygerbil, any hints please
02:23
@blue_eyed_... $F=IlB\sin \theta $ ?
 
5 hours later…
06:55
@JohnRennie morning.
@sammygerbil are you free now?
07:25
@JohnRennie if you come back please ping me .
 
2 hours later…
09:03
@blue_eyed_... Calculate the current in the bar. Then use this result to calculate the magnetic force on the bar using F=BIL, then apply F=ma.
09:25
@Nobodyrecognizeable Here from time to time. Please post your question.
09:42
@sammygerbil I intend to ask about black hole. Are you interested?
@Nobodyrecognizeable Sorry I know very little about black holes. I shall have to leave that to JR.
@sammygerbil are you free now for some time . I have problems from collisions also.
@Nobodyrecognizeable Yes collisions are good for me.
@sammygerbil I'm coming back after cropping the images . Please wait a while.
09:53
@sammygerbil is the picture understandable. I'm sorry for being late.
@Nobodyrecognizeable Yes I can read it. Which question are you asking about? What is your difficulty?
@sammygerbil I will ask the question on top.
ok question 8.50. Oblique collision. Where are you stuck?
@sammygerbil what does line of centers mean?
Draw the billiard balls in contact, with one centre higher up than the other. Draw a line connecting the centres of the two balls. The initial velocity of the incoming ball is not along this line, it is perhaps horizontal. You have to resolve its velocity into components along ang perpendicular to this line.
10:07
@sammygerbil which angle is 45 degrees here?
The angle between the velocity vector V1 and the line of collision.
@sammygerbil like this ?
No the blue arrow is just a pointer, the line of collision is the red line. The angle you want is between V1 and the red line.
Then along the line of collision component of velocity is$ v_1 cos 45$
@sammygerbil ^^
Yes that is correct. (Ignore V2 because in this case the 2nd ball is initially stationary I presume.)
So now the relative velocity of approach is $V_1\cos45$.
10:19
@sammygerbil ok .
@sammygerbil then what after that?
@sammygerbil why did you delete that ?
Sorry, I made a mistake there. I forgot $e \ne 1$. That comment only applied for $e=1$.
So the next step is to conserve momentum along the line of collision.
@sammygerbil ok fine go on man.
@sammygerbil how would what angle the balls will go so how can write the conservation of momentum along the line of action. Should I assume that angle $\theta $ or so ?
It is best to do the main part of the calculation as a head-on collision along the line of centres. Momentum conservation : $mU_1=mU_1'+mU_2'$ where $U_1=V_1\cos45$ is the initial velocity of ball 1 along the line of centres and $U_1'$ its final velocity. $U_2'$ is the final velocity of ball 2 in this direction - its initial velocity was zero.
@sammygerbil ok fine. What's next ?
So we've got $U_1=U_1'+U_2'$ from momentum conservation and relative velocity of separation = $U_2'-U_1'=eU_1$ from the Restitution Law.
From these 2 simultaneous equations you can find $U_1', U_2'$ in terms of $U_1=V_1\cos45$.
10:33
@sammygerbil in the second equation is $U_1 = vcos45 $ ?
In both equations $U_1=V_1\cos45$.
Actually you don't need to know $U_2'$ so there is no need to calculate that. Only $U_1'$.
@sammygerbil i got $ v_1' = \frac{v_1}{4\sqrt 2 }$
Whats next @sammygerbil
$V_1'$ here is the final velocity of ball 1 along the line of collision. This ball still has component of velocity $V_1\sin45$ perpendicular to the line of collision.
@sammygerbil i meant i got $U_1' = \frac{v_1}{4\sqrt 2 }$
Yes that is correct.
The ball still has velocity $\frac{V_1}{\sqrt2}$ perpendicular to the line of collision. So you need to add these to get the final velocity of ball 1.
You don't need to find the magnitude of final velocity, only its direction.
Then compare that with the initial direction (horizontal).
10:49
@sammygerbil ok then do I have to conserve the momentum along the initial velocity direction?
No. We have conserved momentum along the line of collision. Momentum is also conserved perpendicular to this direction. That means the velocity of ball 1 in this direction remains the same. This component is not affected by the collision.
@sammygerbil do i need to break the components of final velocity in horizontal?
Maybe. What I did was find the angle between the final velocity and the component perpendicular to the line of collision. This angle is $\theta$ where $\tan\theta=\frac14$.
@sammygerbil they've said tan$\theta = 3/5$
My angle $\theta$ is a different angle. The angle which is required is $45-\theta$.
So $\tan(45-\theta)=(\tan45-\tan\theta)/(1+\tan45\tan\theta)=3/5$.
11:02
@sammygerbil how do you get the $\theta$ please show that .
The final velocity component parallel to the line of collision (opposite) is $\frac{V_1}{4\sqrt2}$ as we calculated above. The perpendicular component (adjacent) is $\frac{V_1}{\sqrt2}$ which was not changed by the collision. The angle between these is $\theta$ where $\tan\theta=\text{opposite/adjacent}=\frac14$.
@sammygerbil i do get it from the triangle. But here comes a misconception which I have. Now do you have little more time for solving that ?
@sammygerbil as you said that you broke two orthogonal components. If they're orthogonal shouldn't they be perpendicular?
11:13
@sammygerbil this angle should also be the angle between the vectors.
Which angle? Which vectors?
Wait, I think I see what you are thinking. The final velocity is the vector sum of the 2 components (parallel + perpendicular).
@JohnRennie@sammygerbil good morning
@JohnRennie are you free for some minutes
@sammygerbil yep.
@Nobodyrecognizeable The angle $\theta$ is between the final velocity and the perpendicular component.
And we know the perpendicular component is 45 degrees to the initial velocity.
@harambe please wait a while. I'll not take much time.
@sammygerbil yep.
11:21
@Nobodyrecognizeable Are we finished with this problem?
@sammygerbil thanks a lot. I got it now. I appreciate your patience.
@sammygerbil have a nice day professor. Goodbye.
@Nobodyrecognizeable goodbye.
@sammygerbil can you help me with a doubt too
@harambe Yes. Depending on the topic.
It's electrodynamics......
I had a doubt about charge distribution on plates
I had some doubt in the underlined line... Are they referring to electric field due to a point charge or electric field due to a metal sheet
I read q/E0 is the electric field very near to the conductor but I have doubt in its direction
11:29
Sorry I don't see an underlined line.
I mean the text which I have boxed.. Sorry for the confusion
No they are not referring to a point charge but to the charge distributions on the surfaces of the plates. So in all cases the electric field is horizontal and equal to $q/2e0$ where $q$ is the charge density on the surface of the plate.
@sammygerbil so why does qa shows electric field towards right and qb, qc, we.. etc to the left. How to determine directions
The charge distribution on each surface of each plate causes a uniform electric field in the horizontal direction to the left and right of the surface.
The solution assumes that the charge on each surface is +ve, then the direction of $E$ is away from the surface. The charge might actually be -ve but you will find this out by getting a -ve sign from the calculation.
Okay I got it. Is the magnitude of electric field on both sides q/E0
11:38
If the charge on the surface is $q$ then the electric field in each direction due to that charge only is $q/2e0$.
I see now. Thanks for the help sir
When you have an isolated conducting plate there is an equal surface charge on the other plate. So the electric field from each of the 2 surfaces cancel out inside the plate.
So charge from one surface gets induced to others hence creating an identical electric field in opposite direction
@harambe When you have an isolated conducting plate there is an equal surface charge on the other plate. So the electric field from each of the 2 surfaces cancel out inside the plate. If the surface density on each plate is $q$ then the total electric field outside the conductor (from both surfaces) is $q/2e0+q/2e0=q/e0$.
That's why capacitors have q/E0 electric field... I was always confused about q/E0 and q/2E0
11:48
@harambe Yes, that is a common source of confusion. ... My last comment applies to an isolated plate. In this case we have 3 plates which are not isolated. So the charge on opposite faces of the same plate need not be the same.
Okay
@sammygerbil one last doubt
In a infinite sheet, charge is distributed only on one side of the sheet right
I used to think it was on both sides but this argument makes me less certain now
If the sheet is a conductor and has 2 surfaces charge is distributed equally on both surfaces.
I think the correct term is plane sheet for my example
It's a thin sheet, infinire In size
@sammygerbil I think I got it. I caught my mistake. No wonder I was always confused in plane sheet charge and conducting surface
11:57
Even on a thin sheet, the charge is distributed equally on both sides.
If the conductor surface is a plane, eg the xy plane, with the conductor extending in the -z direction, then there is an electric field $E=\sigma/2\epsilon_0$ extending in the +z direction outside of the conductor. In order for there to be no electric field inside the conductor there must be some more charge elsewhere, eg another surface parallel to the xy plane on which the surface density is also $\sigma$.
@sammygerbil got it
12:20
@Nobodyrecognizeable I have drawn a vector diagram :
12:46
@sammygerbil hi
@Abcd hello
@sammygerbil do you know hydrogen atom physics
@Abcd Not very well. Depends on the question.
@sammygerbil During deexcitation from certain orbit of hydrogen atoms only 3 photons are obtained. The energies of these photons are $\pu{10.2 eV}$ ,$\pu{12.088 eV}$ and $\pu{1.88 eV}$. Minimum number of hydrogen atoms required for these photons are?
@Abcd Unusual question. What are your thoughts?
12:53
@sammygerbil Options given with the question are:
a) 3
b) 1
c) 2
d) 2 or more
@Abcd What do you think and why?
@sammygerbil My thoughts are:
12.088 + 1.88 = 13.something so it can be obtained from transition from one single atom!
Then
Then I have no clue!
Becoz:
10.2 + 1.88*2 = 13.something.
But how can we get 2 1.88s from a single atom!?
@sammygerbil Are you able to understand my reasoning?
Is there a transition in hydrogen with energy of 12.088eV?
not sure
Silly question of mine, I suppose there must be or it would not be given in the problem.
13:03
@sammygerbil whats the answer and why
Why do we need to get two transitions of 1.88eV? There is only one photon of this energy emitted.
@sammygerbil Sorry i have no clue whats happening in this problem!
The ground state energy is -13.6eV. The next lowest state is -3.4eV and the next after that is -1.511eV. See hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hyde.html#c3
I think your reasoning is correct. 12.088eV and 10.2eV cannot come from the same atom, whereas 1.88eV could come from the same atom as either of the other two. So the answer is two atoms.
Hmm thanks ... . Bye...
ok. bye.
@Abcd Whoops! Sorry, the 1.88eV photon cannot come from the same atom as 12.088eV because 12.088+1.88=13.968eV which is more than 13.6eV. So the 1.88eV photon can only come from the same atom as the 10.2eV photon. But the answer is still 2 atoms required.
 
1 hour later…
14:15
Hello :D
14:31
@sammygerbil I got that when you posted the bottom sentence.
3 hours ago, by sammy gerbil
@Nobodyrecognizeable The angle $\theta$ is between the final velocity and the perpendicular component.
:46965706 Good. I was in the process of drawing the diagram when you said you got it, and I didn't want to delete the diagram, so I completed it and posted it anyway just in case.
@sammygerbil but I'm appreciating your dedication to your work on problem solving.
@user477343 hello. Do you have a question?
@Nobodyrecognizeable Thank you.
@sammygerbil no, but thanks for asking.
I just came across this via another chatroom and joined
This appeared under 'related'
What is this about, exactly?
@user477343 Well you are welcome. Mostly those who use this room are preparing for JEE examination.
14:35
@sammygerbil why don't go for at least a school physics teacher job ?
@sammygerbil ohh, well funnily enough, I saw this from the following chatroom.
:D
@user477343 They ask mainly about physics, but also mathematics, chemistry and computer science.
@sammygerbil but...
...what is JEE?
What does it stand for?
@user477343 Yes there is probably some overlap between the 2 chatrooms. JEE is Joint Entrance Exam for Universities in India. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Entrance_Examination
@user477343 according to johnrennie anybody can ask any physics problem here. It doesn't mean anybody will flag you if you ask any other subjects. But physics questions are most likely to be asked here.
14:38
@sammygerbil aahhh.
@Nobodyrecognizeable okay, thanks for that
So a question for example: how does a black hole look like?
This is physics related, but also a bit cosmology/astronomy related. Is this question okay?
(...how does a black hole look like? I imagine, given that it has an intense gravitational pull, asteroids will constantly block its view from us... but yet again, it is known they exist)
@user477343 but yeah technical questions will be appreciated first. Or mostly problem solving questions. But explanation type questions wouldn't be flagged but yeah they will not be the priority.
@Nobodyrecognizeable okay. Some technical questions might require parametric equations. (I assume you are familiar with these.) Are questions like the following alright, then? "A car travels 50km p/h off a cliff that is 100m high. Given the car was driving along a flat horizontal surface perpendicular to the wall of the cliff, how far away from the cliff will the car land?"
Of course, in questions like these, I will include my attempts, so as to not exploit anyone here.
@sammygerbil 1) ignore 'minimum' 2) all temperatures are in celsius.
@user477343 black hole is a region whose gravity is so strong that even light can not escape. So we can not see anything but complete darkness through a certain region. But (as I have a little knowledge as a freshman) some of them radiate so we may see some radiation in infrared or so.
@Nobodyrecognizeable I undertook teacher training for secondary school in 2000/2001 but I had difficulty finishing the training (you have to be very well organised, which I am not) and you have to be good at handling disruptive students (I'm not good with that either).
14:47
@Nobodyrecognizeable I think light orbits a black hole, doesn't it? Known as the 'proton sphere', I think
@sammygerbil please correct me if I say something wrong. In the above.
@sammygerbil are you a teacher? :P
@user477343 surely. A great technical teacher.
@sammygerbil, suppose that a semiconductor contains equal number of donor and acceptor impurities do they cancel each other in the electrical effect if so what is the mechanism if not why not?
@user477343 No I was a mature student who is now sort of retired. Apart from answering questions here I do some voluntary work fixing bicycles. I have some money saved up from working years ago, so I do not need to work.
@TheSimpliFire ok but if T is not the minimum temperature then how does it relate to the problem?
14:50
Well to be technical, I would say in my example question, "...off a cliff that is 100m high from the ground .... a flat horizontal surface perpendicular to the wall of the cliff and of which is parallel to the ground joined to the vertex that the cliff extends upwards from...." :D
@sammygerbil T is the temperature after mixing the two together.
@user477343 $(gt^2)/2 =100$ you will get the t from here in seconds. Then you will have to get the answer as $250 t/18$ meters.
@blue_eyed_... Sorry I am not sure about that. I guess that they do cancel out if the donors and acceptor atoms are in the same region, or where two different regions overlap. Better to check with John Rennie about this.
@Nobodyrecognizeable :D
@user477343 by priority it means if somebody asks some problem solving questions he will attended first then an explanatory question will be attended. Although we have a ready explanation type chat room h bar.
14:59
@Nobodyrecognizeable okey. Thank you for the explanation :)
But I'm sure that this the best room to talk with some of the best problem solvers like : johnrennie, sammy gerbil . @user477343
@user477343 okey : p.
@Nobodyrecognizeable :)
@TheSimpliFire Yes that makes sense. So we should ignore the relation m2= T * m1 ? If you wish to keep this condition you need to make it dimensionally correct - eg m2 / m1 = T / T1.
@sammygerbil how about I just say that m2 / m1 = T / 1 degree celsius so all units are gone in the relation.
@user477343 which country ?
15:04
@Nobodyrecognizeable Ostraylia, mate
How about you? :P
@user477343 Australia?
I am from Eandia , mate. :p
@TheSimpliFire Then you can eliminate m1 and m2. To get the value of T you have to solve a quadratic equation : $T^2-(T_2-1)T-T_1=0$.
@Nobodyrecognizeable :D
@sammygerbil Correct, that was quick :)
15:44
Can anyone help me with a simple physics question?
I am not sure what am I supposed to find in the question
A plane mirror of semicircular shape (r=1m) is placed in y-z plane with diameter along y-axis and centre at origin. An object is placed on the axis of mirror at a point (5,0,0). At a distance of 10m from plane murror there is a wall also parallel to y-z plane. Then what is the ratio of spot of light on wall to that of mirror?
@sammygerbil, Two particles P and Q carrying equal charges after being accelerated through same pd enters a region of uniform magnetic field and describe circular paths of radii R1 and R2. What is the ratio of mass of P to Q? Is the answer R1/R2?
@Jasmine Yes that is a confusing question. Have you missed out some words? I am expecting there to be something between "what is the ratio of ..." and "spot of light on wall". For example, "the ratio of the distance of the spot of light from the axis of the mirror to that on the mirror"?
@sammygerbil no i haven't missed anything thats mentioned in the question
I dont understand what i have to find
@Jasmine ok I will think about it some more and try to make sense of it, after I have tackeled blue_eyed's question.
@sammygerbil ok sure.. are you in for some more time as i have got several problems?
15:58
@Jasmine Yes I shall be here for several hours. I shall get back to you after thinking about your mirror problem.
@sammygerbil ok..
@blue_eyed_... The particles have the same charge and are accelerated through the same PD so they acquire the same KE : $\frac12 m_1v_1^2=\frac12 m_2v_2^2$. The magnetic forces on them are $F_1=Bqv_1, F_2=Bqv_2$. These are the centripetal forces. The radii of the circles are given by $F_1=m_1v_1^2/R_1$ and likewise for $R_2$.
Therefore $\frac{m_1v_1}{R_1}=\frac{m_2v_2}{R_2}$. Squaring and dividing by the KE equation we get $\frac{m_1}{R_1}=\frac{m_2}{R_2}$. So yes your answer is correct : $\frac{m_1}{m_2}=\frac{R_1}{R_2}$.
16:22
Correction : That last line should be $\frac{m_1}{R_1^2}=\frac{m_2}{R_2^2}$. So your answer is not correct. You should have $\frac{m_1}{m_2}=(\frac{R_1}{R_2})^2$.
@sammygerbil you have two occupations. One in the morning you do the volunteering and in evening physics question solving really what a variety of lifestyle(perhaps 2nd one is bit more obsession I think). :p
@sammygerbil sorry if i hurt you. It was never posted to offend you.
@Nobodyrecognizeable I am not offended, I was concentrating on Jasmine's question.
@sammygerbil ok. Go on. Goodbye professor.
Anonymous
@user477343 There's a chemistry chatroom as well. The questions I had posted were from my JEE tests. At first, there was only this room, then other rooms were created to avoid confusion and separate the questions. That makes learning easier. So, students like me usually hang out in these rooms.
@Nobodyrecognizeable Did you finish the other collision questions? ie those on the sheet numbered 8.50 to 8.53.
16:38
@sammygerbil I aim to ask them later as I was reading some textbook about oscillations.
@Jasmine I think I have made sense of your mirror question. The plane mirror stands on the floor, eg against a wall. There is a parallel wall opposite 10m away. Halfway between the two walls on the floor is a point object (a source of light). The reflection of this light in the mirror casts a semicircular area of light on the wall. I think you have to find the ratio of area of the semicircle on the wall to the area of the mirror.
@Nobodyrecognizeable ok
17:18
@sammygerbil, A charged oil drop in Millikans apparatus is observed to fall in air through a distance of 1mm in 27.4 sec in absence of electric field. The same drop is held stationary when a field of 2.73*10^{4} N/C is applied between the plates. How many excess electrons does the drop acquires? (given coefficient of viscosity of air = 1.8*10^(-5) Ns/m^2). Please give some hints
@blue_eyed_... This is quite difficult. Have a look at the theory eg in the wikipedia article en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_drop_experiment
@sammygerbil, I know the theory behind this
@blue_eyed_... Good. Can you apply it here?
@sammygerbil, let me try.. We can calculate the terminal velocity from the given distance and time, isn't it?
yes that is correct
17:28
@sammygerbil, to calculate the radius of the oil drop we need it's density which is lacking in the question.
@blue_eyed_... Yes that seems to be a problem. We cannot proceed without it.
@sammygerbil, can the question not be solved without that data?
No I don't think so. We need either the radius of the drop or the density of the oil. We are not given either.
18:06
@sammygerbil, in an evacuated tube electrons are accelerated from rest through a potential difference of 3600V and then travel in a narrow beam through a field free space before entering a uniform magnetic field of 2*10^(-3) T, the Flux lines of which are perpendicular to the beam. In the magnetic field the electrons describe a circular arc of radius 0.1m, calculate e/m of the electron
@blue_eyed_... What do you think?
@sammygerbil, r=(mv)/(eB)?
Correct.You can find $v$ or rather $mv^2$ from the potential difference. See my answer to the P and Q problem above.

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