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5:25 AM
https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/598339/pressure-on-walls-due-to-streamlined-flowing-fluid
Can anyone help me with this?
 
5:43 AM
Hello @JohnRennie sir
 
@PrateekMourya hi :-)
 
Sir i too have doubt with satwik's question
 
OK ... ?
 
What's really the answer how do horizontally flowing fluid models pressure?
Or it doesn't?
 
There are two different and unrelated sources of pressure in fluid flow.
 
5:45 AM
Ok
 
Suppose I shoot a jet of water at you from a hose. You feel a force, and that force is due to the change in momentum of the water. e.g. if the water emerges from the hose at a speed v, then stops when it hits you, its momentum changes from mv to zero. Yes?
 
Yes
Sir wait why don't write answer on the question stack ?
 
And lets take m to the mass of water hitting you per second, where m is equal to the volume flow rate (volume per second) times the fluid density. Then the change of momentum per second is mv, so the rate of change of momentum is mv.
And rate of change of momentum is just force. So you feel a force mv.
 
That's known as the inertial force. Its the force caused whenever the momentum of the fluid changes. In Satwik's question the momentum is not changing so there is no inertial force and therefore no contribution to the pressure from inertial forces.
 
5:52 AM
Ok
At junction of narrow and wife pipe rhere is inetrual force?
 
Yes
 
Ok
Then other source?.
 
The other source is if some external pressure is applied. Then the external force is transmitted through the fluid.
 
Like a motor or something?
 
A pump.
 
5:57 AM
But pascal law is applicable in static fluid?
 
@PrateekMourya the pressure at the bottom of the sea is greater than at the top of the sea even though the sea isn't moving. Yes?
Oops, no, sorry, I was thinking of Bernoulli's equation.
Pascal's law applies everywhere.
 
Ok
Its little bit difficult to how fluid particles apply pressure
Picture pressure
 
Consider Satwick's question where an ideal fluid is flowing in an ideal pipe with no external pressure e.g. in a vacuum.
 
Then there is no pressure on the walls of the pipe.
With a real fluid there is resistance to flow because you have to push on the fluid to get it to flow through the pipe. That means ina real pipe there is a pressure on the walls of the pipe because you are exerting a pressure on the fluid to make it flow.
 
6:05 AM
Ok sir from here i cannot continue
I have to go for chemistry class
 
OK, bye :-)
 
 
1 hour later…
7:24 AM
@JohnRennie , sir, can I ask you a question
 
@Satwik hi :-) Yes, what's the question?
 
sir while apllying Bernoulli equation in this , we take the velocity of water coming out as v but is it really same(Vm=Vn?)
consider the fluid as ideal
 
When we are are considering fluid flow there are two separate types of force to consider:
1. viscous forces
2. inertial forces
Viscous forces come from how thick the fluid is. For example honey will flow more slowly than water because honey is thicker than water. Yes?
 
Yes sir
 
Inertial forces come from the mass of the fluid. To make a mass m accelerate at some acceleration a you have to apply a force F = ma.
 
7:33 AM
yes sir
 
So because a fluid like water has a mass, any time it is accelerating that means there has to be a pressure.
When you are doing calculations of fluid flow then in theory you should consider both types of force, but luckily in real life often only one type of force dominates and you can neglect the toher.
As a general rule viscous forces only dominate at very low flow rates and small pipes, so mostly the inertial forces dominates.
 
yes sir
 
The Bernoulli equation is derived using the assumption that inertial force dominate. You'll often see it decribed as being applied to inviscid fluids i.e. fluids where the viscosity can be ignored.
 
yes sir, we ignored viscosity while deriving it
 
Now, the velocity profile we get in a pipe is determined by the viscosity. It's because if there is a velocity profile then there must be shear present in the pipe i.e. adjacent layers of water move relative to each other so we have a non-zero shear rate $\dot\gamma$.
And the shear rate is related to the shear stress $\sigma$ by $\sigma/\dot\gamma = \eta$, where $\eta$ is the viscosity.
OK so far?
 
7:40 AM
yes sir
 
The reason this matters is that the layer of water in contact with the pipe has a zero velocity.
 
if we consider the fluid to be non-ideal, right
 
The shear rate is dv/dx where x is the distance measured from the wall of the pipe.
So obviously if the average velocity of the fluid is v there must be a non-zero shear rate because the speed has to change from zero to v.
And this cannot happen instantly because then $\dot\gamma = dv/dx = \infty$ and for any non-zero viscosity that would require an infinite stress.
But for inviscid fluids where the viscosity is small $\dot\gamma$ can be high enough that we can ignore the small amount of water flowing at reduced speeds near the edge of the pipe.
We just assume there are no viscous forces so we can use conservation of energy and therefore we get Bernoulli's equation.
So you are quite correct that strictly speaking this is an approximation for the sort of system you showed, but in many cases it is a very good approximation.
Does all this make sense?
 
yes sir
Sir, but i have got one more problem with it
 
OK ... ?
 
7:52 AM
sir, if we assume velocity to be same at A and B then by applying Bernoulli equation for streamline C-A and D-B we get Pa=Pb
sir how is this possible, wont Pb be greater than Pa
 
Again this is an approximation. We assume that the vertical dimension of the pipe is small compared to the height of the water surface, so Pa is approximately equal to Pb.
In Bernoulli's equation there is a ρgh term. Yes?
 
Ok sir, i got it , thank you.
 
And ha <> hb
 
ah! yes sir, my bad
 
But we can consider them equal to a good approximation.
As Torricelli did :-)
 
7:55 AM
thank you sir :-)
 
:-)
 
 
13 hours later…
8:44 PM
So I understand that I need to integrate it from both sides, and I only got this far t+c= −12ln|y−3|+12ln|y−5|+C, what should I do afterwards?
tree
 
9:10 PM
@Rocca Use the initial conditions to solve for the constant of integration
 
9:48 PM
@AkshatSharma so i plud in 0 and 0? for y and t?
 

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