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5:41 AM
@JohnRennie Morning
 
@Abcd morning :-)
 
@JohnRennie Can you please explain his proof of 1? I cant understand his proof:
1
A: Properties of azeotropes

a-cyclohexane-moleculeI will first enumerate the four points that need to be addressed. The vapor and liquid phases have the same composition in an azeotrope. The azeotrope boils at a constant temperature. The composition of the azeotrope remains fixed while boiling. The azeotropic mixture cannot be separated by fra...

 
Basically, no I can't explain the answer. Not without digging out my thermodynamics books and relearning all the stuff I've forgotten.
Ah, hang on, that's not the complicated answer we discussed yesterday. Let me have a read through it.
Hmm. OK. His first point is that we draw the vapour pressure plot with composition on the horizontal axis, and we normally put composition of the liquid on the horizontal axis.
But we could just as easily draw the same plot with composition of the vapour on the horizontal axis. Then the curve will have a different shape because in general the composition of the liquid and the vapour are different.
But I have to confess I'm not sure what he means by:
> This new vapor pressure curve must touch the original curve at the azeotropic composition x∗=y∗=z, for otherwise a tie line would connect two vapor phases at some P, which is physically unreasonable.
 
@JohnRennie Cant we just rotate this diagram and get that?
 
@Abcd you mean swap over A and B? i.e. put B on the left and A on the right?
 
5:56 AM
@JohnRennie No i mean rotate the original graph by pi/2
Is that what he wants?
 
Put composition on the vertical axis?
 
@JohnRennie oh sorry ignore my last 3 messages
@JohnRennie Thats the most important part of his proof it seems. And I dont understand it too.
 
Call the mole fraction of A in the liquid $x$, and the mole fraction of A in the vapour $y$.
For a liquid and vapour in equilibrium in general $x$ and $y$ are not the same. OK so far?
 
yes
 
We normally draw the vapour pressure plot as a function of $x$ i.e. the curve is some function $P(x)$.
But we could draw it as a function of $y$ i.e. put $y$ on the horizontal axis. Then we'd get a differently shaped curve $P(y)$.
 
6:02 AM
Yes.
7 mins ago, by John Rennie
> This new vapor pressure curve must touch the original curve at the azeotropic composition x∗=y∗=z, for otherwise a tie line would connect two vapor phases at some P, which is physically unreasonable.
Then what about this^^? Did you figure it out?
 
What is saying is plot both curves on the same diagram and they touch at three places (1) pure A, (2) pure B and (3) at the azeotropic composition.
But this is the bit I'm unsure about.
@Abcd a tie line is a horizontal line on the vapour pressure diagram i.e. a line of constant pressure. Specifically it's a horizontal line that joins the two curves $P(x)$ and $P(y)$.
 
@JohnRennie All this can be better seen from a diagram. I have requested him through comment to upload a diagram if he can...
 
I think it would be interesting to draw the two curves for an ideal mixture. We can do that because we can calculate $y$ from $x$ for an ideal solution. Give me a moment to think about it.
 
okay
 
6:18 AM
@Abcd no, I'm sorry but I just don't see it. I don't understand the point he is making.
 
@JohnRennie Are you free for 10-20 minutes??
 
@Abcd I need 15 minutes to do some work, but I'll be back after that.
 
6:42 AM
@Abcd OK, back now
 
7:15 AM
@JohnRennie hi
@JohnRennie can I solve it setting up double derivative
 
7:41 AM
@Nobodyrecognizeable just calculate the time the projectile is in the air using:
$$ s = ut + \tfrac{1}{2}at^2 $$
Then the range is this time times the horizontal velocity.
 
7:58 AM
@JohnRennie are you here?
If you are free then please ping me.
Whenever you come back @JohnRennie
 
 
1 hour later…
9:21 AM
@JohnRennie good morning !
 
@harambe morning :-)
 
@JohnRennie can you help me with thermodynamic questions
They are all non calculative
Just wanted Clearence of some theory doubts
 
I can try, though thermodynamics isn't a strong point of mine
 
Just first law problems
 
OK ... ?
@Nobodyrecognizeable Hi
 
9:38 AM
In the first question, I have calculate work
So for enthalpy how do I calculate Cp. the moles are not given
 
If it's adiabatic the enthalpy change is just the work done isn't it?
 
Um why
 
No heat flows in or out of the system
 
I don't get the relation between work and enthslpy here
In adiabatic isn't work done getting used up in internal energy
From first law
 
Ah, hang on.
Of course, the work is equal to the change in internal energy.
$ \Delta H = \Delta U + \Delta(PV) $
And $\Delta U = work$ so calculate $\Delta(PV)$ and subtract off the work.
 
9:46 AM
Is this true for ideal gas for every process?
 
Actually you can just use $\Delta(PV) = P \Delta V + V \Delta P $
 
Yea
 
And $P \Delta V$ is the work, so $\Delta H = V \Delta P$
 
@JohnRennie I'll ask you tomorrow. Have a nice day.
 
but I can't remember if the $V$ in that equation is the initial or final volume. Final volume I think.
@Nobodyrecognizeable OK
 
9:51 AM
@JohnRennie so I just need to calculate change in pressure and multiply it by volume. Let me calculate
@JohnRennie the final pressure is bit weird
I used $/gamma$ to be 5/3
Because I think noble gases are monoatomic
Scratch that they are monoatomic
So the final pressure is (1/2)^5/3
 
10:07 AM
174J ?
 
-115J
 
Ah
I get the final pressure to be 0.315 atm = 31915 Pa
 
Let me check if it matches mine. @JohnRennie you calculated using polytropic equstin, right
 
Yes $P_1V_1^\gamma = P_2V_2^\gamma$
$\gamma = 5/3$
 
Sadly I don't have s calculator which does cube roots XD
 
10:15 AM
Does your calculator do logs?
 
I don't have a physical calculator. Just mobile app calculator XD
 
So does the phone calculator do logs?
 
Nah
Mine is coming 0.793
Wait
I am wrong
 
Have you got Google sheets on your phone?
 
Got 0.315
Does this matches yours
 
10:20 AM
Yes, that's what I get
 
No I don't have Google sheet
Is it useful
 
So $\Delta P = 1 - 0.315 = 0.685$ atm
 
Okay
 
1 atm = 101325 Pa so that's $\Delta P = 69410$ Pa
But that isn't going to give 115J ...
 
Isn't Cv gonna help at all
 
10:24 AM
Though the answer I got is 1.5 times the correct answer. Hmm.
I don't know why they gave you $C_v$, unless it's to confirm that $C_v = 3/2 R$
(which it is)
 
Oh okay
@JohnRennie let me search up an answer for this
Here it is one
They apparently found the moles and used nCp∆T
 
I must admit I'm not familiar with the equation $\Delta H = nC_p\Delta T$ for an adiabatic change.
 
I think for ideal gas every enthslpy question is dolved by it.
@JohnRennie can you help me with Q3
How do I calculate enthslpy for phase change. Again enthalpy...............
I originally aimed for (d) but it is incorrect....... 😂😂
 
10:48 AM
@harambe (c)
 
How
 
P1 = 2 and V1 = 3 so P1V1 = 6
 
Got that
 
Likewise P2V2 = 20
 
Okay
 
10:50 AM
$\Delta(PV) = P_2V_2 - P_1V_1 = 14$
And you're told that $\Delta U = 30$
 
Oh damn
 
:-)
 
I am not great with enthalpy and even greater mess with non ideal gases and phase changes
@JohnRennie just have 2 more doubts
 
Yes?
 
How is option A, B and C correct
For A isn't work done reverdibly greater or does it hold only in expansion and reverse happens in compression
For B it is true. Why did I pin it
For c didnt we discuss gas cools down as pressure falls
So temperature should fall too
 
11:03 AM
I would have said C is false ...
 
Option C is wrong. D is right and I am confused there
I just saw it wrong
Can you explain option A and option D
 
D is true. In a free expansion the kinetic energy of the gas molecules doesn't change because they don't collide with any moving surfaces.
And the temperature is related to the KE of the gas molecules, so the temperature is constant.
 
Okay
So that explains temperature
Or isothermal
But can't gases collide with themselves @JohnRennie
Or is it elastic collision
 
Yes but those collisions are elastic.
 
Okay
What about adibatic
Adibatic means no heat loss
 
11:08 AM
A free expansion is effectively instantaneous. There's no time for heat to flow.
 
Okay. That explains it. Thanks for your help sir
Btw you were right
9
Q: Why is the enthalpy change not zero in an adiabatic process?

halcyon Which of the following must be true for adiabatic processes? $C_\mathrm{v} = C_\mathrm{p}$ $\Delta H = 0$ $\Delta U = 0$ $\Delta S = 0$ $q = 0$ (Source: Chemistry GRE) The answer is $q = 0$. From what I can find, an adiabatic process is when there is no transfer of heat,...

 
Except that I got the wrong answer ...
 
You can see @chester Miller answer here perferably his last comment. You method matches his so I am sure it's just some minor mistake
About the volume part
Maybe we are making mistake there
 
The answer I got was out by a factor of $C_v/R$, which seems suspicious to me ...
Anyhow. I have to go now. I won't be back until tomorrow.
 
 
3 hours later…
2:36 PM
@sammygerbil good afternoon!
 
@harambe goodafternoon
 
3:03 PM
@Nobodyrecognizeable Projectile launched from a cliff : The equation for the trajectory is $y=xT-\frac{g(1+T^2)}{2v^2}x^2$ where $T=\tan\alpha$. Substitute $x=R, y=-H$. This enables you to eliminate $v^2$, which is the only unknown in the trajectory equation. Then as you suggested you can find maximum height by setting $\frac{dy}{dx}=0$.
 
3:20 PM
@sammygerbil I wanna derive the equation of motion from Newtonian mechanics.
I think the equation should be $mdv/dt = -mg \hat{k}$
That leads us to $v =- gt +v_0$
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable The equation is a standard result. But you can derive it as John Rennie suggested, using the kinematic equations $x=ut$ and $y=vt-\frac12 gt^2$ where $u=V\cos\alpha$ and $v=V\sin\alpha$ and $V$ is launch velocity. Then eliminate $t$.
 
@sammygerbil I would have to integrate the velocity wrt time then I will get the displacement. I know if I make the y component of the displacement zero. Then I will get the time to fall and that times $v_0 cos \alpha t$ but is there some way if i wanna relate velocity and displacement ie mvdv/dx = -mg
@sammygerbil i am sorry as im typing in mobile. Im little late while replying.
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable All projectiles follow a parabolic path whatever their mass. So you do not need to consider the forces on the projectile. The horizontal and vertical motions are separate : the horizontal motion is constant velocity, the vertical motion is constant acceleration.
 
Hi
 
@Akash.B hello
 
3:32 PM
@sammygerbil thanks anyway for helping. Cya later.
 
@sammygerbil What's up
 
@Akash.B I am looking through the transcript for unanswered problems.
 
@sammygerbil I just looked at your profile.
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable yes?
 
3:37 PM
@sammygerbil then man can I ask you some questions about PhD? Cause I'm interested in that too.
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable ok.
 
@sammygerbil you didn't complete your PhD. Did you get any job earlier?
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable Sort of... My mother had dementia so I abandoned my research to look after her full time. But I was not doing very well anyway. I was not enjoying the research as much as I expected I would.
 
@sammygerbil what are you doing now?
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable I don't have a job. I was a mature student so I was 43 when I started the PhD (2004). My mother died in February 2016. Now I do some volunteer work mending bicycles and I also speak to people about making life better in Scotland for people with dementia. I do not want to resume the research to finish the PhD.
 
3:45 PM
@sammygerbil I am sorry if I hurt you anyway.
 
Not at all.
 
But you have a lot of love left for physics man..
 
Thank you. But I don't have the patience to learn new techniques. Matrix methods and tensors and things like that.
 
@sammygerbil I was asking while doing PhD you have to give thesis . Are all the thesises accepted or some rejected?
Really this is my main question.
 
Almost 100% are accepted, but not straight away. What happens is that you have an interview and you are asked questions about your research by 3 independent professors - usually one is an expert in the field.
 
3:50 PM
@sammygerbil so thesis doesn't make so much of matter?
 
At the interview they hand you a list of corrections for your thesis, and they discuss the important points with you. After you've made the corrections you can submit your thesis again, and it is usually accepted then.
Very occasionally they tell you that your research isn't good enough to get a PhD. They will suggest further research you could do, which might take another 3-12 months.
 
@sammygerbil hey thanks anyway for so much of information and thanks for spending your valuable time with me. Have a nice day/night. Good bye.
 
The thesis is essential. You cannot get a PhD without submitting a thesis. But the examination is not as tough as getting a first degree.
@Nobodyrecognizeable goodbye
 
4:07 PM
@sammygerbil what uanswered problems?
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable Preparing an answer to another question.
I am going to look at hema's problem about a spring and pulley system yesterday :
yesterday, by Hema
How do I solve this problem? The period of the free oscillations of the system shown here if mass M1 is pulled down a little and force constant of the spring is k and masses of the fixed pulleys are negligible, is
yesterday, by Hema
user image
@Akash.B However before I do that I am working on a problem about the emf induced in a quarter-circular ring which rotates around a magnetic dipole. It looks tricky.
 
4:26 PM
And you say you have no intention to learn new skills. :p @sammygerbil
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable That is right. I am only exercising the skills I have already. And trying to make them a little better.
 
@sammygerbil go on man... Have a nice day .
 
@Nobodyrecognizeable You also.
 
5:22 PM
@sammygerbil Can I ask you some questions sir.... Getting confused in some oblique collision
 
@harambe ok. I like collisions.
Is this the problem you discussed with John Rennie yesterday?
 
Yea
 
yesterday, by harambe
@JohnRennie http://imgur.com/a/e2r16k7
 
I will just ping you in 10 minutes. I have worked out everything mostly but just wanted to confirm it with you
 
5:53 PM
@sammygerbil back
Let me give you my attempt
 
@harambe ok i am ready
@harambe ?
 
@sammygerbil attempting it
Just calculated angle. Made a mistake
Sorry for the wait sir.
@sammygerbil is my final answer correct sir
Final velocities
 
6:14 PM
@harambe What is your final answer?
 
1/6
But this doesn't match the option
Wait. I did a slight mistake
The impulse on the big sphere 2Jcos(theta)
The final vvelocity of the ball is 3u/2√2 where intisl velocity of ball is u
But sir how do I take coefficient of restitution here.... I think I am making a mistake there
 
Once you're done with the current problem, I have one too: Consider a ball falling from a height $h=0.4m$ on an inclined plane of angle $\alpha=30^\circ$. It bounces back without losing velocity at an angle of $\beta=60^\circ$. The aim is to calculate the distance $d$ from the place of the first collision with the plane to the place of the second collision. I will show you a diagram and my attempt shortly.
 
@harambe Sorry I shall have to think some more about the problem because it is not coming out right for me either. I will ping you when I've solved it.
 
The diagram comes like that for me sir
 
@Mr.Xcoder To clarify, at an angle of $\beta$ from the vertical
 
6:27 PM
Okay
 
Sorry, wrong ping.
 
No problem
 
Wait nevermind, I no longer need help with my question. It turns out that the problem statement was wrong.
 
@Mr.Xcoder ok. Looks like an interesting problem though.
 
@Mr.Xcoder are you in high school
 
6:30 PM
Yes, I just finished middle school and in less than a month I'll be in the 9th grade, my first high school year
Hold on guys, can you please have a look and tell me what you get as a final result just in case?
 
@Mr.Xcoder I don't see what is wrong with the problem statement. Looks ok to me.
 
Damn. You are solving these questions in 9th grade. We started doing this questions in class 11 and that too only a handful of these
 
@sammygerbil Yeah that's why I asked y'all again to try it, it's not clear to me what's going on
 
@sammygerbil is this question oblique collision too
 
My question? No, it doesn't really involve collision physics
 
6:33 PM
@harambe Yes. Good practice for you!
 
Trying it then
@Mr.Xcoder looks to me it is imo
 
But you are given that the velocity doesn't change right after the collision
I mean... It's mostly kinematics IMO
The weird thing is that I somehow get $0$ with my technique, but the correct answer is $1.6m$. When I try replacing a cotangent with a tangent in my final formula, I get $1.6$ too which I find particularly weird
So did you guys understand the setup?
 
@Mr.Xcoder Yes. But I haven't solved it yet.
 
Yea
 
Great. I'll show you my reasoning shortly
No rush
How I approached it: The velocity right before impact is $\sqrt{2gh}$. Okay so far?
 
6:43 PM
ok
 
Good. Then, $v_x$ is constant, because $\vec{a_x}=0$, and therefore $\tau=\dfrac{d_x}{v_x}=\dfrac{d\cos\alpha}{v\sin\beta}$. Right?
 
Why $v\sin\beta$ in the denominator?
What angle is $\beta$?
 
21 mins ago, by Mr. Xcoder
@Mr.Xcoder To clarify, at an angle of $\beta$ from the vertical
$\beta$ is the angle that the ball bounces back relative to the vertical.
 
ok got it.
I agree so far.
 
Good. Then, $d_y=v_y\tau-\dfrac{g\tau^2}{2}$
I have a couple of doubts about this. Is it right?
 
6:51 PM
It looks ok to me.
What are your doubts?
 
I was not sure about that $d_y$ in the LHS
But I've clarified that in my mind, move on.
 
That is just a definition of the vertical height dropped.
$d_x=d\cos\alpha$ horizontal, $d_y=-d\sin\alpha$ vertical.
 
Oh!
I used $d_y=d\sin\alpha$
 
With $d_y$ measured upwards.
 
Without the minus
I think that was the problem...
Anyway, to proceed with the correct version
 
6:55 PM
ok
 
$$-d\sin\alpha=v\cos\beta\dfrac{d\cos\alpha}{v\sin\beta}-\dfrac{gd^2\cos^2\alpha‌​}{2v^2\sin^2\beta}$$
Damn this is ugly
$$-\sin\alpha=v\cot\beta\cos\alpha-\dfrac{gd\cos^2\alpha}{2v^2\sin^2\beta}$$
Correct so far?
 
You could make it easier by substituting values $\alpha=30^{\circ}, \beta=60^{\circ}$.
 
And to rearrange: $$\dfrac{gd\cos^2\alpha}{2v^2\sin^2\beta}=v\cot\beta\cos\alpha+\sin\alpha$$
@sammygerbil I prefer getting to a literal, general solution.
 
And therefore the expression of $d$ is: $$\dfrac{4(v\cot\beta\cos\alpha+\sin\alpha)h\sin^2\beta}{\cos^2\alpha}$$
 
7:01 PM
@sammygerbil @Mr.Xcoder I tried using impullse theorem here. Can you also check my equations after this
 
Sure, I for one will take a look
Is the expression correct?
Wait no something is wrong
yeah I have an additional $v$
 
@Mr.Xcoder No, something has gone wrong starting on the line after your comment "Damn this is ugly."
 
Should be $-\sin\alpha=\cot\beta\cos\alpha-\dfrac{gd\cos^2\alpha}{2v^2\sin^2\beta}$
And therefore
$$\dfrac{4(\cot\beta\cos\alpha+\sin\alpha)h\sin^2\beta}{\cos^2\alpha}$$
@sammygerbil Is this one right?
 
@Mr.Xcoder Sorry I didn't follow all of that, but at least it is dimensionally correct.
 
Wolfram says it is correct
Thank you very, very much! That $-$ ruined my whole solution
Signs are way too important in Physics
And sorry for asking when I've made such a silly mistake!
@harambe I can take a look at your solution if you want
 
7:10 PM
@Mr.Xcoder I used a different method, and got a different answer.
 
Kinda not for finished
 
@sammygerbil Can I see? The book confirms my result
 
The angle of launch is 60 degrees, and the angle between the vertical and the downward incline is 120 degrees, so the launch angle bisects the angle between the vertical and the plane.
 
Correct
 
According to physics.stackexchange.com/questions/370290/… this means that the range down the plane will be a maximum.
 
7:13 PM
Yeah, I am aware of that
 
Stuck after this. According to me the impulse will make the incline go backwards and the ball will do projectile do maybe something relative velocity
 
And according to expertsmind.com/learning/… the equation for maximum range down an inclined plane is $R=u^2/g(1-\sin\alpha)$ ... Whoops, just seen where I have made a mistake.
 
I can confirm that equation, I've derived it too a while ago
 
This gives range on plane as $4h=1.6m$ which agrees with your answer.
 
Great!
 
7:16 PM
I get the feeling this is a slightly complex question XD
The question you describe is what comes in jee advance hardly level to us and that too this is very time consuming
But I will think about this and get back to you
 
When exactly (after which grade or so) do you go to JEE?
 
@harambe If you know the trick about launch angle for maximum range and the formula for maximum range up or down an incline, it can be solved fairly quickly. The angle of the incline is just right for this method to apply.
 
Jee is what we students go for college if get selected . So it is university in your words and we go there after high school
@sammygerbil kinda bad in projectile for now. I will need to revise it once again XD
But I think I get oblique collision mostly. Just make the line of action and solve using impulse
 
@harambe Both these tricks are not well known, even for university undergraduates. But they would be standard for Olympiad level.
 
I need on help in a thermo problem
 
7:26 PM
@gateprep Well post it and I'll see what I can do.
 
Olympaid level...........
 
Calculate the enthalpy changr in KJ for 1 kmol water as it is vaporized at a const pressure of 101.3kPa.The specific voulmes of liquid and vapour at these conditions are 1.04X10-3 m3/kmol and 1.675 m3/kmol respectively.1030kJ of heat is added to water for this change
Now
 
Sorry for the sudden silence got a phone call; brb
 
delta H= delta U+delta PV
after that
the equation becomes
delta H=Delta U+P delta V
what after that
 
Won't enthslpy be just ncp∆T
 
7:29 PM
Cp not there
 
But he at is added do won't it be
 
@harambe Well it's not the standard 9th grade material, it's mostly local / county (region) olympiad level (so below national, but not standard 9th grade curriculum)
 
Q(p)
Because heat added at constant pressure is Qp and which is equsl to enthslpy
@Mr.Xcoder so are you preparing for Olympaid. Good luck champ in making
I may be wrong........
 
@harambe
Go on
tell me the steps
@sammygerbil
R u there?
 
@harambe Thank you! I have competitional experience already, got two bronze medals at nationals (both times less than 2 points below silver) but I am pushing a bit harder in the 9th grade because I like mechanics a lot and that's mostly all besides optics for this grade :)
 
7:36 PM
Hello One and all
Pls help
 
@gateprep I am not confident about what enthalpy means.
 
H=U+PV
thats all
u can use delta on both sides
 
It means the heat input then? Is that correct?
 
Now what to do
 
I don't really know thermo too well, I cannot help
 
7:37 PM
yes its correct
@sammygerbil
 
Even I am not sure in phase change reactikns. I am working on them
@Mr.Xcoder Nice. So you have olympaid for physics or whole PCM
 
now?
 
@harambe What's PCM?
 
Physics, chemistry and maths
 
Physics-Chemistry-Math?
 
7:39 PM
It's what we shorten and use in out country
 
Oh, Physics first and foremost and some maths contests. No Chemistry
 
Okay. Good luck again!
 
I mean, that's what I participate in. Of course, our country has all of them: Ph, Ch, Maths, Biology, Junior Sciences (PCB)
 
1kmol of water is vaporized (presumably at 100degreeC). Molar heat of vaporization is $40.7kJ/mol$ so the heat input for vaporization is $40.7MJ$.
 
@Mr.Xcoder @sammygerbil I gotta go now. Cya guys later
 
7:42 PM
See you \o
 
@harambe goodbye. I will leave a note about the other problem later.
@gateprep The increase in volume is $1.675-0.00104m^3=1.674m^3$. So the work done against the atmosphere is $0.1013MPa \times 1.674m^3=0.17MJ$. So the total heat input (=enthalpy) is $40.7+0.17=40.87MJ$.
 
> The specific voulmes of liquid and vapour at these conditions are 1.04X10-3 m3/kmol and 1.675 m3/kmol respectively.
That is not correct.
 
@sammygerbil from where did u get 0.00104?
 
@gateprep From the figure you provided of $1.04\times 10^{-3}m^3$.
 
Alright but why are u essentially subtracting the specific volumes@sammygerbil
 
7:53 PM
@gateprep To find the increase in volume $\Delta V$.
 
Is the online only way volumes changes take place in a piston cylinder for phase changes?
 
@gateprep If the vapour is expanding into the atmosphere ("at constant pressure"), this is the same as expanding into a piston cylinder with the atmosphere on the other side of the piston.
 
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