The Greenhouse

Niitaku

06:57

Hello

Zanna

Hiya

how are you today?

Niitaku

Same as yesterday.
Receiving unfair feedback and unfair treatment from some people...
I may need much more time.

Zanna

:(

that sucks

sorry to hear it

Niitaku

Thx, if I could say.

For example, one say I go too deep in details and that I should take priorities in considerations.
I asked for clarification to the guy, and he exposed to me cases where there was a discussion about how we would do something. Of course, I suggested a way to do this thing, explaining that the solution I propose would make a great organized and structured base in case the project has to evolve later. To him, these suggestions are going too deep in details.

Zanna

07:14

that sounds really stupid to me. By organizing things optimally in the first case and building consensus, you save much time and struggle later

Niitaku

Yes, of course! But to him it's going to deep in details and not taking care of the priorities. But he doesn't understand that this is taking care of the client's priorities that is the wanted functionality.

I can't see any logic in his reaction.

On how this could be going into details

Zanna

sounds like you are doing a great job and people around you are not appreciative

that really sucks.

I hope you can find a way to carry on doing great work through the tough time until you get some recognition

Niitaku

The thing that I don't understand neither, is that he contradict itself by saying elsewhere in the feedback that I delivered high quality code in time and that the client is very happy.

So, if I would do too deep in details without taking priorities into account, how could I deliver high quality in time ?

With all requested functionalities

Zanna

exactly, it's nonsense

Niitaku

Because of that, and the other guy that receive the feedback and make a summary one without listening to my comments, I would not get promotion in any form and the situation makes me continuously stress

Zanna

07:26

ugh maybe you should find a better home for your skills :/

Niitaku

I don't know if it makes sense in English but: The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

Zanna

makes perfect sense

Niitaku

I made multiple other companies before my current job, and it is worse

Zanna

:(

Niitaku

09:54

@Zanna btw, I added a burninate-request tag to your meta post (and to mine about men)

David S

10:17

greetings

Niitaku

10:38

Hello @DavidS! How are you?

David S

@Niitaku Hi, I'm good thanks, how are you?

Niitaku

Like yesterday, not so great.

David S

@Niitaku Ok I've read back a bit now

That's sounds like something I would be accused of too, I like to get the foundations right from the start.

I don't know the details of the conversation and of course it's not really my business but depending on how your boss communicated this he/she might just be trying to be constructive, it's easy to take criticism to heart (I know) but sometime's it's not always meant in the manner it comes across.

But then, my personality type lends itself to the idea and the bigger picture and the proof of concept but not the completion.

The 80/20 rule is so# true.

@Niitaku Just to be clear though, I'm on your side here :) And I'd be really disappointed to get negative feedback, maybe it's an opportunity, or you just need to align with your bosses expectations (stupid or not)

Niitaku

10:56

@DavidS I really like feedback, even if they are negative. They just have to be logical, true and constructive. Here it's neither logical or true as it was proposals about how to handle client's expectations.

David S

Handle their expectations or meet them?

The former is a different question to me, though it might be a language nuance.

It sounds like your boss asked the wrong question.

And then didn't like getting the answer :)

Niitaku

11:20

It seems to be that. But I did my job of recommendation. The guy is not strictly speaking my boss, he's a "mid-client" before the final client.

David S

11:39

Have you tried punching him in the mouth?

That might help.

Just sayin

Niitaku

Uh.. No ^^
This person is crazy about quick & (very) dirty

The full opposite of my way of thinking/working

I mean, it would be as quick as possible, but certainly not dirty at all!

David S

12:17

Quick, Good, Cheap. Pick two.

Zanna

this^

David S

@Zanna :)

David S

13:34

quiet in here today

did i kill the conversation?

Zanna

14:05

You livened it up if anything

I'm somewhat busy and stressed out... my work is seasonal and it's the season of stress haha I'll be alright in August >_<

David S

and @Niitaku is dowsing his workplace in petrol..

Office Space style

Niitaku

14:31

dowsing?

David S

dousing sorry

Niitaku

Ah, ok ^^

@Zanna Hope it's ok for you for the tag I added to your meta post

@DavidS Let's say it would be a shame for my (new) current project lead that is fully satisfied of my work. ^^

David S

14:56

@Niitaku New lead huh?

This is a good thing, right?

Niitaku

In some ways, yes, but I can still have to refer to previous project lead if it needs intervention

Zanna

15:21

@Niitaku I am not sure we need that tag, but if you think so it's fine :)

David S

15:55

gtfo time

Zanna

Lol enjoy your weekend!

Niitaku

16:33

@Zanna It's a common meta tag. It helps targeting an filtering burninate requests. I think the staff would use it. 🙂

Zanna

16:46

But it's such a small tag, we could burn it by editing perhaps. I don't know if the staff will do it for us. Me and another user are destroying a tag with 38 questions on AU today, just by retagging

But of course, AU gets so many questions that nobody will notice all that editing if we do it slowly

Whereas 16 posts here may be disruptive

I like to edit when burning a tag as it provides an opportunity to correct other issues with the posts, clean up unanswered etc

Zanna

18:52

Wow saw you make a comment on AU @DavidS

Voting to close that one as unclear

Someone's answer to it got upvoted, so not voting to close after all

Not sure my edit makes sense

I feel ftp is great fun...

David S

19:49

Well I upvoted the answer once just ebcause it was what I was saying ;

Sorry!

But the dude asked a vague question

pretty sure the answer is chmod a+w though

@Zanna ps. I knew you'd notice

@Zanna It looks like you get a lot of this though, questions that are U&L or SU but get asked in AU

Or server fault

Too many sites imo

listens to X-Clan - F.T.P.

the question inspired me

Zanna

Oh I didn't really read the answer... let me have a look

Was on mobile

looks alright

@DavidS that is on-topic, they are using Ubuntu

@DavidS if it is answerable, that is fine, but if not, it should get closed, not get a vague answer. But I think it is alright

David S

@Zanna I stand corrected, he does mention Ubuntu. But I suspect that's not really a factor in the problem

Hurry up 17.04!!

(xubuntu)

I'm at that point where you start thinking "it's time to reinstall"

Zanna

20:06

@DavidS it doesn't matter - the fact that it's on-topic elsewhere and not Ubuntu-specific doesn't make it off-topic. In Ubuntu we can use FTP, therefore, it is on-topic

@DavidS me too!

too many stupid dev libs installed to help other people compile stuff

David S

I'm wondering whether there's another debian based distro I should try.

I am mixed feelings regarding systemd

Zanna

also, I chown -R someone: /etc just to answer a question because I was sure I would be able to fix it

I did fix it

I swear I restored all the ownerships correctly

but since then I get an "exception" from some daemon every time I log in

David S

At first I was annoyed because init.d was fine and systemd brings along journald and and junk but tbf systemctl is easier to get stuff done with

@Zanna That's annoying indeed.

Zanna

@DavidS it is indeed a nice interface

David S

@Zanna you know the problem?

@Zanna selinux

@Zanna Anything that's not working right but should. Selinux

Zanna

20:09

lol XD

David S

(every time i start typing selinux i get to sex and realise it's the wrong word...)

Zanna

hahaha

David S

I can't be the only one.

Zanna

I promise you are not

so yeah I can't wait to reinstall (MATE)

Xubuntu is tempting... I always keep a live Xubuntu for doing stuff like fixing the broken permissions of /etc...

David S

I am tempted to xubuntu minimal and then use fluxbox again for a bit

I enjoyed the text fiile config with conky and things.

Though that was ten years or so ago (and with FreeBSD) so it'll all be new to me again

BSD doesn't even use portage anymore afaik

Zanna

20:14

I loved installing Arch... I really want to use Arch again. I use Ubuntu because of Ask Ubuntu

David S

what? sorry for swearing but fuck that :)

use what you want

its not your job

Zanna

hahaha sure but I love Ask Ubuntu!

David S

oh okay....

:)

Zanna

When my dad gives me his old Vaio to do CAD work for him I can use Arch on that :)

David S

neat. can't believe they discontinued the Vaio line

my computer is the Vaio Pro 13 (non-touchscreen because you're not meant to touch the damn screen!)

Zanna

20:17

haha I like touchscreens on phones but there's absolutely no reason or excuse for it when you have room for a real keyboard

David S

Indeed.

Yeah on phone I prefer only screen but man, what's the keyboard for if not doing stuff on the computer

Zanna

One of my students, who's very dyslexic, had a very expensive looking Surface whatever with Windows 8.1 as his first laptop (he was 16 when he got it I think)

And he literally could not do anything with it

the touchpad did not work properly

the touchscreen did not work properly

the operating system was obfuscatory in every way

he couldn't find his files or applications

of course if he wanted to view stock market stats, it was right there in the middle of the effing screen

now I'm going to deliberately FUBAR my sources.list to test someone's crappy half-assed answer which I downvoted earlier and which they edited and which still looks like junk to me but which I would rather edit into shape than try to destroy because it's not flaggable and there is only 1 person on AU who actually checks the delete votes page apart from me (which means it's an uphill struggle trying to delete junk)

On a more on-topic note, I received a vegan creme-egg equivalent in one of my subscription boxes today

David S

ooh sorry (reading what I missed)

VirtualBox, surely

@Zanna That's outstanding.... or at least.... it sounds it. Is it? Did you eat it yet or previously?

Oh I should try to help with that eduroam question

Since I use it too.

Zanna

20:35

I've eaten them previously, but haven't eaten this one yet :D

kind of too sweet, but in a "who cares I'm eating it anyway" way

David S

tbh though its not as fast as the other hotspot in our office so I do.

Yeah I'm not a big fan of sweets

Cake, on the other hand

Zanna

@DavidS On AU, yes, please help

I feel the same, just give me cake...

2

reproduced the error with APT :D

now I have to try to figure out the GUI way to correct it, because I've never done that haha

found it I think...

but it doesn't seem to want to open...

*looks for its .desktop file to cheat*

talk about fighting the GUI...

@DavidS you mean I should FUBAR stuff in a VM?

David S

@Zanna Yes

Ok I answered that question, perhaps badly cuz it's late but at least it's teh right eduroam settiings

Zanna

20:52

@DavidS obviously, but my machine is a toaster and doesn't have enough RAM or enough space

David S

@Zanna Now, you may not want to spend actual money but Digital Ocean are cheap for virtual servers. And I can give you a referral code so we both get free money.

Erica

are there Windows VMs for Ubuntu?

David S

@Erica Yes the machine is virtual but you just put a real operating system on it :)

Erica

@DavidS ha, fair point

David S

@Zanna aww other dude got an upvote :)

Zanna

20:58

I saw... I can't really upvote your post because I'm pretty clueless about networking

David S

Well, Thomas Ward's comment just educated me so now I wish I hadn't bothered :)

No doubt the yanks do it different.

Zanna

hmm :S

he is the expert on this stuff

David S

And this is why I do not contribute to AU, I don't know enough :)

Thanks for the semi's by the way

(tee hee)

Zanna

sorry, OCD

David S

I never use them, but they were well placed and enhanced my punctuation.

Zanna

21:03

the main reason I'm looking forward to reinstalling is that the 4.10 kernel might actually work

David S

Ah yes.

Zanna

I've been using the same kernel since January

David S

Hm I don't remember when I reverted mine, maybe a month ago?

But now I've used this desktop for what I wanted, I've put it on Gumtree and will want to put a clean install on it before it goes.

Zanna

oh nice :)

David S

Man, Alexander's question makes me want chai

which is, if I'm not mistaken, traditionally made in milk.

Not water with milk added

Can I be bothered to go put a pan of soymilk and chai tea on... I think not.

roibos though, yes

Zanna

21:13

yum

yeah I have a tea strainer just to make masala chai in a pan with only milk

I'm going to reboot, I think I might have just found what's throwing my exception...

David S

roibos and a few fig rolls...

tasty treat

Zanna

hmm... weird

David S

but are they really vegan

Zanna

haha don't think about it!

I have messed up the dbus-daemon-launch-helper and I don't know how to fix it!

David S

rm it

Zanna

21:26

ah!

I reinstalled dbus

it was supposed to have setuid

fixed

kind of obvious

but you don't want to go round passing out setuid bits on a hunch

this crappy answer has caused me to fix my broken dbus daemon \o/

Erica

silver linings XD

Zanna

loving it

Just checked my own answer on how to fix the same problem, thinking I needed to correct it with new insight, but my answer is absolutely correct, and I must have made some kind of idiotic mysterious typo when actually applying it o.O

typical

David S

I was going to suggest reinstalling dbus but I figured you'd tried that

has another crack at an answer to the FTP question you just edited

edits it

Zanna

thanks for editing

@DavidS yeah that was the most obvious thing :) I am slow.

reproduced the error again, confirmed that the crappy answer is completely wrong and voted to delete it, voted to close the crappy question as dupe, fixed my own deliberately broken sources.list, and it only took like 2 damn hours

David S

21:47

damn, I edited and by the time I've done that he asks "teach my i make first time this can you teach me how?"

Yes, first Zanna is going to teach you English young man...

Then I will help you set up your minecraft server.

:|

I'm done though because first dude was right first.

And got the votes.

@Zanna You are committed. To SE I mean, not the medical kind of committed.

Zanna

@DavidS just saw that haha

@DavidS :) thanks

David S

well... maybe both, I wouldn't know...

heh

Zanna

yeah I think they want you to just tell them the exact commands they need so they can copy and paste them into the terminal and they never have to learn anything or think

David S

indeed

I cuold be like

ssh in to your server ... and he wont know how to do it

i bet he's not even using FTP

at least I hope so

Zanna

doesn't look like ftp to me

David S

22:02

scp minecraft_server.jar user@server:/home/user/

que?

Zanna

yeah

what's all that TYPE I stuff?

why is it all in caps?

David S

er... what?

Zanna

their pastebin (I edited it into the question)

David S

yeah I noticed that, thanks, lot clearer.

You mean, he'd be like "I don't know what the log means"

or.... are you asking me a question and I'm not getting what you mean?

Zanna

just talking rubbish because it's past bedtime

David S

22:08

Yeah I know what you mean, but I'm watching an episode of Farscape, and I think I need another tea.

Plus chatting to you, of course.

Zanna

good idea

my doubt is, how do you know the remote system has anywhere they can write, a $HOME

David S

Well yes. That's true, he might be in / because the system is like 'you have no home, go here'

But sometimes it's just configuration and dumps you in the root of the filesystem.

Zanna

I think I have to VTC

David S

When I mount a filesystem over ssh using Gigolo it doesn't put me in /home/dave

Zanna

but they apparently ran CWD / to change directory

David S

22:13

Yeah I saw that but I don't think he sent that

I just have a feeling it was part of login.

Zanna

so what is all that stuff?

David S

OR, his client is shit

Zanna

I should shut up because I'm clueless

because I'm thinking wth are these "command"s

David S

Oh, no it's fine but I'm not an expert either on FTP but er yeah so the first few things are setting up the environment so CWD (change working directory) / and PWD (print working directory) and TYPE I (now I see where you got that from) is gonna be his client doing it's initial stuff

TYPE changes the transmission type and the choices are A or I

ASCII or bInary

Zanna

ahh yeah they obviously are not valid commands in the shell

David S

22:16

if you send a file in ASCII mode it can get fucked up

WIndows newlines and Linux newlines etc

Zanna

so the whole thing is a log

David S

Yeah

So Command is the client

Response is the server

FTP has numeric codes like HTTP does

250 being OK

Zanna

I've only used it a few times... I only wish there were more occasion for it

David S

I forget what passive mode does differently to er active..

Zanna

*shrug* that doesn't matter

David S

22:18

The fun thing is when you connect directly to a mail server

and talk SMTP at it

which is how you spoof emails

Zanna

So far I haven't learned any of this fun stuff

David S

I have random information and then huge gaps in modern technology

Zanna

I'm just a noob :)

I don't think we can help them any further without more info

David S

but most similar age services (FTP, SMTP, IRC) have similar interactions where you send commands in caps and they respond with a number and a message

just that clients normally hide it

Yeah they can get on with it on their own now :)

Zanna

I mean, if they are really so clueless, they will need to add more info to get help

David S

22:23

Yeah.

Zanna

what would you need to know to give them the exact commands?

David S

And it's not Q: how do I do all the things?

A: the internet

what to do their thing?

username, password, creditcard number, expiry date..

Zanna

hahaha XD

David S

they need to know they have a home directory to put the files iin

they need to know if they are allowed to ssh in (by trying it)

the policy of the server to host games, java is heavy on resources so they won't just sneak in a minecraft server on the sly

it'll stick out like a sore thumb

is java even installed...

does the server meet the minimum requirements

the list goes on :(

do they need to reconfigure the firewall to open the ports needed to run the server?

Zanna

I'm voting to close

David S

22:26

if yes then root needed ...

or sudo

good call

Zanna

sleep time :)

David S

yeah it's nearly that, but I want that cup of tea.

Zanna

thanks for the educative chat

David S

any time, thank you

Zanna

\o

David S

22:28

good night :)

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