The Greenhouse

Riker

00:00

I'll try to post stuff early tomorrow morning PST (mid-afternoon UTC)

Fiksdal

@Zanna that's cool to hear that it was my message that lead you to this site :)

Ramon Melo

02:04

@Riker Great! I'll be on a meeting, it'll be nice to have a distraction

Riker

cool

Zanna

03:08

@Fiksdal that's awesome :) I have learned the script so I can "read" and even "write" but I don't know any of the words XD

@Fiksdal I didn't realise I would actually be able to contribute :) I've been pleasantly surprised :)

@Fiksdal hmm I guess the honest answer is I want to learn to impress someone I like haha.

Hmm someone posted a question asking for recommendations in Dallas (local advice), and another question asking for historical precedents (big list). These are both too broad I think, but I don't like to close them somehow :S

Riker

05:07

VTC as per meta and VTC because it's obviosuly too broad

Zanna

07:40

hmmm so many too-broad and/or opinion-based questions :S

Turion

08:37

@Zanna, I edited "Why do vegetarians quit?", is it any better in your opinion now?

The Dallas question should be closed in my opinion, it's an excellent example of a too narrow question. Your comment hit the nail on the head. There is no need for such a question on a global Q&A

Zanna

let me have a look

@Turion phew I'm glad you agree

Fiksdal

@Zanna I see :) A Tamil friend? Cool. In case you didn't know, the written language is significantly different from the spoken language. I'd compare it to Shakespeare English vs. modern spoken English.

Zanna

hahaha yeah I heard that

I imagine that would make it hard to write dialogue in literature!

@Turion yeah I think I can vote to reopen... I don't know if it will get good answers

someone disagreed with you on meta @Riker

Turion

True...

Fiksdal

08:53

@Zanna it's a shame that they are so different

Stack Exchange

1

Q: Should we synonymize [micronutrients] and [vitamins-and-minerals]?

I have noticed questions with either of these tags, but rarely used together. As far as I know, the difference here is marginal, if any and so I would suggest to either synonymize these two, or get rid of one of them while they are not both all over the place. For reference, micronutrients is ...

2

Q: Synonymize [vegan] with [veganism]?

In this question, the consensus is to make vegan a synonym of veganism, the reason being that vegan may still be searched and/or added to questions by new users. Nobody has over 1250 rep to synonymize it. Can we get a SE employee and/or unicorn to do this for us?

feature-request tags tag-synonyms

0

Q: Are experience-sharing oriented questions welcome?

As this kind of question could appear, I'm asking to know how do we handle them. Are experience-sharing oriented questions welcome on our site? In my humble opinion, I think those questions could be too broad and opinion-based but could also provide useful information to the OP who can pick i...

discussion

Zanna

hmm meta chatbot is super slow?

Zanna

09:06

hmmm surely "how can I handle dreams about meat-eating is POB? :S

@Fiksdal I can't imagine how people deal with it

Fiksdal

@Zanna yeah

Zanna

but I love writing though, it looks so beautiful compared to Latin

Zanna

09:39

hurrah! thank you to whoever approved my tag wiki edits

i will submit some more

what I can find some time/energy!

Turion

Can we merge some tags as well?

Zanna

09:57

we can synonymise tags when I have 3 more upvotes ;)

what are you thinking of specifically?

Turion

There are three "vegan" tags I think

@Zanna, nice try filching those upvotes from your gullible veggies. (I'm joking ;) )

Zanna

lol

yeah we need to synonymise vegan as suggested by a certain meta post

Turion

10:34

Ah, yes.

@RamonMelo, you may now upvote :P

Zanna

11:11

I got the privilege of suggesting tag synonyms, but the suggestion needs to be voted for with sufficient scores on the tag...

You can vote here if you have enough points on the tag vegetarianism.stackexchange.com/tags/veganism/synonyms

Turion

11:31

@Zanna, can you synonymise vegan-diet as well?

Ugh, this question is tough: vegetarianism.stackexchange.com/questions/389/…

Zanna

@Turion done!

I'll see what else looks like a clear case for synonymise or would merit a meta post when I have chance

@Turion touch to decide what to do with?

Turion

I don't know whether the intended question is a duplicate or not

Zanna

don't you agree with the close?

Turion

Yes, it's tough to decide

Zanna

I think it's tough to decide too, with a lot of them

I guess we are learning what our scope is at this stage

Turion

11:44

Depends, maybe the question is more about how to cope with such situations, and in that case it would possibly be a good question

Zanna

but when I saw the slew of new questions this morning, my first thought was "oh we'll have to close all these :( "

And I was relieved that a few seemed salvageable by editing

Turion

I've expressed my opinion about these kinds of questions here: meta.vegetarianism.stackexchange.com/questions/71/…

It would be hard on the OP as well, they seem to be very enthusiastic, and it would be a shame to block them completely

Fabby

@Zanna :D :D :D Good one!

Turion

My general opinion is that a good question is one that invites a good answer. There is an answer that isn't bad on that question.

However, it still feels like a duplicate

Can I somehow see what the close reasons were without voting to close?

The question used to be in my review queue, but it's gone now

(Sorry, disregard it, I can now see it's on hold)

Zanna

11:59

@Turion good principle

Turion

13:57

@RamonMelo, do you often face questions like "You're eating soy, thus destroying rain forests." in Brazil?

Zanna

that healthy fake meat question is causing trouble

if we define fake meat narrowly and allow the answerer to interpret healthy as they please, then the answer can be OK... sigh

Turion

Yes... facts and opinions are being mixed. I feel like there is a meta question about opinions and how answers asking for facts can't be based on them. And we need to involve everyone in it so that we find a consensus.

I personally find that the answer can't go like it is. I'd rather clarify the question in a way that makes it more obvious where the problem with the answer is.

But I feel like abusing my privileges if I just go around editing stuff. Is there a way of "editing, but only if a few people approve of the edit"?

Zanna

hmm Tom Kelly's comment @me just made me go into rage mode, I'm going to have to close the tab and come back a bit later, otherwise I'm going to get mad

editing to clarify is always good

but if OP's intent is unclear, comment and ask them to clarify instead

I'm taking a break from it; I am going to say something I'll regret at this point if I don't

Turion

Good idea to take a break.

If we're not getting anywhere, maybe we should open a separate chat about this

Zanna

14:13

that's a good idea

@jokerdino hey you

jokerdino

hello

Zanna

how do we make a separate chat though? I am such a noob...

it's not automagically making a link for it even though there are 6000 comments there now

jokerdino

You need a site mod to make a chatroom I think.

Zanna

I've got this one vegetarianism.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/…

jokerdino

Yeah, I thought you wanted to make a room out of comments in a post on site?

Zanna

14:26

yeah that would be the best thing

and only mods can do that you say

in which case we can't do it

jokerdino

Yeah I think so. Or you can bring one of the SE team folks.

Flag it so someone from the team will handle it later.

Ramon Melo

@Turion I did, but I couldn't open the chat. Today's Meetings Monday here. ugh

@Turion Not really. I mean, someone would have to be really ignorant to make this point, since it's well-known most deforestation is followed by bovine husbandry.

jokerdino

Did the site become public beta or something?

Zanna

nobody told us if so

Ramon Melo

There isn't much criticism against soy here. To be honest, we are way too accepting of soy agriculture, most farmers get away with literal murder.

Zanna

14:34

I've still got 10k privileges (thankfully, since I needed to retag about 12 posts this morning)

Turion

@RamonMelo, literal murder??

Zanna

@Turion I'm looking at agriculture as a whole vs animal husbandry as a whole, not individual cultures (it would be too broad). Oil palm is certainly a strong factor of deforestation, but is it the strongest? — Ramon Melo 44 mins ago

why would making your question more specific make it too broad? I kind of think it is too broad now @RamonMelo because my feeling is that it would be extremely difficult to do meaningful research

Ramon Melo

@Zanna I had to rollback your edit because you kinda changed what I wanted to say, I apologize for that.

Zanna

I see conflicting opinions on that in the papers etc based on scientific lit

@RamonMelo I don't understand why you rolled back my edit though - animal husbandry is a subset of agriculture

if I misunderstood please correct me

Ramon Melo

@Turion Yes. An American missionary was killed a few years ago and none of the farmers were punished, only the hired guns.

Zanna

14:45

I thought you were asking whether growing crops or raising livestock were more destructive

jokerdino

I think animal husbandry and agriculture are part of primary sector activities and one is not part of the other.

IMO, they are allied.

But in a layman sense, every primary activity is agriculture. (err not exactly, because no one calls mining, fishing, etc as agriculture)

Ramon Melo

@Zanna Because, then, we'd have to have research on every crop and every livestock breed. There is research on this, I actually have it, but did not post it to encourage more people answering questions.

Zanna

agriculture is just all farming activities I thought

maybe it is animal husbandry I do not understand correctly

@RamonMelo that's awesome, I think you should post it then, I don't think that would discourage anyone

I didn't VTC or anything

to prove your point @jokerdino all you need is one example of animal husbandry that is not agriculture. Wikipedia agrees with me that agriculture = "the cultivation and breeding of animals, plants and fungi for food, fiber, biofuel, medicinal plants and other products used to sustain and enhance human life."

Turion

@jokerdino, @Zanna, let's stick to the term as defined on Wikipedia maybe: "Agriculture is the cultivation and breeding of animals, plants and fungi for food, fiber, biofuel, medicinal plants and other products used to sustain and enhance human life."

jokerdino

@Zanna Yeah fair.

Ramon Melo

14:51

@Zanna I worked for the EMBRAPA (Brazilian Agricultural Research Corporation) before I went to college, that's how I stumbled into veg*anism. Farming is a dirty business around here. Monsanto is the main sponsor of agricultural research here.

Zanna

yeah and they are evil incarnate

Turion

@RamonMelo, wow. That's a sad story. (The missionary one)

jokerdino

Monsanto? I thought it became Bayer.

Turion

@jokerdino, it's not quite through yet, but they will probably merge

jokerdino

@Zanna @Turion Yep, clearly my view of agriculture was too narrow and not right. I will now fix it on my side.

Ramon Melo

14:53

I personally consider "agriculture" to be only crops, and "farming" to be crops, livestock, etc. But here we have the term "agropecuária" that includes both, apparently there isn't a translation.

jokerdino

@Turion I hate them both, so no problem here.

Zanna

seconded ^

Turion

I'll have to do some actual work now (the kind where I get paid), see/read you all later :)

Zanna

@jokerdino I think @RamonMelo had in mind the same definition as you

jokerdino

Yeah, in my mind, agriculture = cultivation of soil and only that.

Zanna

14:56

@RamonMelo it seems like agropecuaria == agriculture which is crops and animals both. What's the portuguese for just plant cultivation? I don't know that we have an accurate one-word term for it in English

Ramon Melo

@Zanna I don't know... in the Portuguese SE, I have to tell new users not to accept my answers straight away, otherwise they'll never get another answer. There are a few meta posts on SE/SO where users seem to feel the same way. I really want more people to post so I can spend my votes. ;)

Zanna

ok shrug I guess I have an itchy close-vote finger if I think a question is unanswerable, and if I think it's answerable, I upvote it instead. I guess I need to work on it

jokerdino

Is it possible to grow crops purely vegan?

Zanna

@jokerdino POB

hahaha

jokerdino

Some organic farming techniques like vermicompost, etc are using worms to decompose stuff, etc.

Zanna

15:01

yeah and use animal manure as well

jokerdino

That's not vegan, is it?

Zanna

and when you wash your kale you wash the bugs into the sink etc

the food can be labelled vegan

after these processes

In my answer to Fabby's question, I said that veganism is aspirational

I think about the Jains who sweep the ground before they step on it

But there is an organic farming technique called "stock free" which avoids using animal products like manure

it can be organic as well

jokerdino

They wear wooden footwear?

Zanna

@jokerdino I'm sure you know better than me, I don't know, I only saw this on TV once o.O

Ramon Melo

@Zanna We use "agricultura" for that. You get my confusion now, don't you? haha

Zanna

15:05

@RamonMelo yes! False friend!

jokerdino

@Zanna Haha, they avoid wearing footwear made of animal products (leather) and drop some things for the little things to eat.. that's all I know about them.

Zanna

We have a question about the use of pesticides; you can use pesticides on the crop, and use it to make food, and the food wiill be considered vegan. I have been told that it is not possible to grow soya without mouse poison

@jokerdino ah yes... a woman who works at my optician is from a Jain family, but she only smiles and says nice things about me being vegan, she hasn't told me about their practices

so ultimately it may not be possible to grow crops without harming non-human animals

jokerdino

Time to do things. Later all!

Zanna

later xoxoxo

Stack Exchange

0

Q: Are the following type of questions allowed?

This is based on 2 things: First thrilled that this site is in beta. Too many questions to start asking here about my daily life. With that sai, wanted to ask if the following are questions allowe on the site: Fasting & Fasting Tips Food recommendations, preparations and avoided food types ...

discussion

Riker

15:20

@Zanna welp

I was making a tag wiki for that also

but yours is wayyyy more complete

nj, approved it, now we're just waiting for a second 750 rep person to come throug

Zanna

15:32

thanks for that :) I already got the +4 so it has been done

sorry I beat you to it :S

Robert Longson was the second approver - he's on 764 atm

Ramon Melo

I approved @Zanna's, yours didn't show up for me, @Riker

It was really good

Riker

I didn't make it

just cancelled it

@Zanna nah it's okay

it was better anyway

@Zanna yeah and @RamonMelo just hit 755 also

Zanna

congratulations @RamonMelo :)

Riker

feedback on this?

0

A: Should we synonymize [micronutrients] and [vitamins-and-minerals]?

Possibly synonymize them, but maybe make a [nutrients] tag? Micronutrients are not exactly equal to vitamins and minerals, though they are a bit of a subset. Micronutrients are defined as: a chemical element or substance required in trace amounts for the normal growth and development of liv...

Zanna

@RamonMelo thank you. Actually we have some really awesome tag wikis on AU. I learned how they should be from @jokerdino but I am too lazy to make really excellent ones

@Riker I will make the synonym and people can vote

Riker

15:46

sure

Zanna

I think they should be synonymised

I'd favour micronutrients as the master but vitamins-and-minerals has more questions

it lacks a tag wiki though

Riker

imo don't keep micronutrients, it's kind of obscure for new users

Ramon Melo

@Zanna thank you :)

I'm in favor of putting vitamins-and-minerals as the master

I love the term micronutrients but it seems unlikely new veg*ans will know it

Riker

^

Zanna

Yeah, that's what I did

:)

I tried to convert my quip from the other question into an answer to your deforestation Q @RamonMelo but it's just from my own reading, I need to find data to back me up. I'll try to improve it later

Thanks for the kind comment @Attilio :) :) :)

Ramon Melo

16:06

@Zanna Client just in (late). I have to pretend I'm paying attention to him now, but I'll read it once he's out.

see y'all later

Zanna

no rush at all!

haha good luck with work things @RamonMelo and thanks so much for all your good work on the site

thanks to @Riker and @Turion also for doing excellent things

Niitaku

17:29

Hello!

Zanna

18:05

\o

Riker

18:21

@Zanna happy to help!

Niitaku

18:58

I wish I could help

Riker

with?

the general site?

just try to be active

Niitaku

With all kind of things that is needed.
I'm trying to. But it seems my last question wasn't well received

Zanna

@Niitaku you helped loads already

Asking & answering questions and voting are the most important things we can do at this point imho

Niitaku

What do you think about my last question?

1

Q: How often should a vegan have a blood test?

I read (e.g. in this vitamin B12 question) that it is important for a vegan to monitor some nutrient levels by taking blood tests periodically. Excluding exceptional situations, how often a vegan should have those tests? For example, what is the minimum number of times per year a vegan should s...

veganism nutrition

I asked this question at reading in B12 questions the words periodical bloodwork

Riker

it's a bit opinion based imo, but not enough to close

Niitaku

19:10

I was a bit surprised, so I asked

@Riker Ok, thx for your feedback

Riker

np

i have like 6 questions to ask I just don't have time :(

Uuser

19:56

Do you have any ideas for a good vegan breakfast?

Im always eating bread with a vegetable spread and the routine starts annoying me

Zanna

20:11

I put some oats in a bowl with whatever random dried fruits, nuts and seeds I have to hand, then mix it with soya or coconut yogurt, then chop some fresh fruit and put that on the top, then sprinkle with ground flaxseeds

That's my routine.

If I'm feeling adventurous I'll do something else

A good one with toast is get a ripe avocado and mash it up with yeast extract or soy sauce and a bit of chilli or whatever you like, then spread that on the bread

I actually like to sprinkle a tiny bit of grated very dark chocolate on top of that

I also like to make various kinds of pancake, tofu scramble etc

Uuser

Okay I think I will try your yogurt mix

Thank you

Zanna

Leftovers make a great breakfast - bubble and squeak (traditional English dish) - if you have some greens and potatoes from last night's dinner, mash them up and mix with some flour, any kind but chickpea or gram flour is the best, and them fry that in a pan like a frittata. You can put anything in it

Here's the other tag synonym to vote for vegetarianism.stackexchange.com/tags/vitamins-and-minerals/…

Niitaku

20:30

I can't :/

Nice ideas for the breakfast @Zanna thx :)

Riker

20:44

@Zanna badaboom!

synonym made

Zanna

@Niitaku any time, I could talk about food all day every day :)

@Riker that happened faster than I expected!

And I have a badge here I don't have on AU now :)

Niitaku

@Zanna I may ask you some questions time to time then, if you don't mind. :)

Zanna

21:12

@Niitaku I'll be delighted, but if possible you should ask them on the site so we can all have a bite :D

Riker

21:24

@Zanna which one?

Zanna

Synonymiser

I joined AU & SE generally in April. AU is a mature site, not much stuff like that to do

This building a new site is a very different experience

Riker

ye

Niitaku

21:46

@Zanna I would be great. But wont that be off-topic as too broad?

Zanna

Not if it's specific :)

This person is upsetting me already :(

@Zanna Sorry, had to revert your edit as it doesn't add much value. If you click on the Risk of Dietary Toxicity in the source - it has max. limits for every person - children, adults incl. pregnant women. As with any supplement there will be problems if taken in excess, so not sure why it needs to be called out as such. — sv. 17 mins ago

@Niitaku if you're not sure, ask me in chat, and if it seems to me like a good question for the site, I will say so, then you'll get an answer in any case

vegetarianism.stackexchange.com/posts/307/revisions

Riker

@Zanna yeah he doesn't seem to get what edits are for

Niitaku

@Zanna I will, thx. :)

@Zanna :S

Zanna

My edit just fixes BAD problems!

@Riker maybe if I add an extra paragraph about something completely different that totally changes the meaning of the post they will be ok with that

Riker

yeah

>_<

Zanna

22:00

Hmm I'm too upset. Time to close the tab again.

Later all :)

Zanna

22:15

Please review the revision history. I corrected grammar and gender exclusion and made the statement about pregnancy a matter of general concern (this can't possibly make your answer invalid as it makes no assertion one way or the other) so as not to give the impression that pregnant people should seek retinol. I only said that it is dangerous in the comments. Still, here's some advice for pregnancy about vitamin A from the UK National Health Service — Zanna 1 min ago

Turion

22:28

@Zanna, maybe ask a meta question about what edits are fine and which aren't

It seems like they reverted all of them, although some of them are clearly only about language.

So those regarding only language should go ahead nevertheless, and we'll think about the pregnancy bit again later.

Well, there sort of is a meta question already: meta.vegetarianism.stackexchange.com/questions/41/…

Maybe the answer has to be reconsidered, and another one to be added?

Zanna

22:46

@Turion I am definitely right about the issue and their post is giving dangerous advice as it is now which is what's really bothering me

I believe there's no way to codify an editing policy and that's a good thing

See for example meta.askubuntu.com/questions/16608/…

Zanna

23:03

Actually I kind of agree with their answer on our meta there, ironically

Sleep time in the UK zzzz

Riker

night

Zanna

@Turion I assume they clicked rollback

I think they are changing their mind about why they reverted to suit the argument, but heigh ho, I'd let it go if we didnt have that bad bad advice sitting there

I used to work in a health food chain that sold supplements and they drummed it into us that retinol causes birth defects :(

But really I am going to sleep

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