Marvel Endgame failed in diversity too

promise gay character was one off scene from support group played by a director

Black widow is no more than a women in refrigerator

Captain Marvel scene looks artificial and she was barely there

One scene was good where all female team fight but rest nothing

@AnkitSharma And even it had been a more major role, I haven't counted all the people who have shown romantic feelings toward the opposite-sex in the MCU, but I'm pretty sure it's a lot more than 10. So the representation of non heterosexual characters in the MCU is way off from reality if this was the first character shown to have a same-sex love interest.

Like, on the side of characters who've been shown to be romantically interested in the opposite sex, we've got: Thor, Odin, Jane Foster, Freya, Loki, Peter Parker, MJ, Tony, Pepper, Steve Rogers, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Hawkeye's wife, Captain Marvel, Yon-Rogg, Gamora, Peter Quill, Gamora, Peter Quill's dad, Peter Quill's mom, Bruce Banner, Visión, Wanda, T'Challa, and Ant-Man, the Wasp, Valkyrie, probably the Wasp's parents, who knows who else.

On the side of characters who have showed romantic interest in the opposite sex, we have: support group man

@AnkitSharma i got a feeling that scene was trying to make a statement or something

@AnkitSharma i felt they were writing her off after the 5 year skip and she said they weren't going to see her for a while

@AnkitSharma Valkyrie right?

@Memor-X Valkyrie is bisexual, but since she's not shown to be in movie it's a bit disappointing.

@Adamant they had Valkyrie, just show her with a random Asgardian gilrl for f sake

she is bisexual and her sexuality ended on cutting floor of Thor 3

@Adamant every hero has a partner they are romantically involved with. yes Steve has Bucky

@Memor-X Steve isn't gay representation, I'm afraid, as much as some people wish he were.

@Adamant yeh, i was mostly joking there for the yaoi fans

@Memor-X no I am talking about gay character they promised which turn out to be support group extra playyed by director

@Adamant dam it. and where i was thinking that New Asgard was going to be a kingdom of yuri

Time for my twitter rath on Disney later for they sexist nature where they care only for white straight men

@AnkitSharma and gay women as long as white strait men can bang them too

just wondering, at the end when Thor is on the Guardian's ship, was Nebula there?

can't remember if i saw her or not

But where is gamora

Anyway, basically the MCU would realistically be about 12% GLBT characters (including by probability a few of the 30 or so heroes) but by the current numbers it looks like 1% or less, if the support group person was really the first on screen.

@AnkitSharma i assume ok if Nebula wasn't dusted

@AnkitSharma idk but she's been confirmed for the third film

@Adamant but if that them bring her back to life? before the events of Infinity War? Flashbacks or the one from the past?

Idk, no one's death needs to be permanent in the MCU anymore with all the shenanigans. Just like the comics now.

A bit disappointing really. One reason I won't watch endgame probably.

But it won't be flashbacks.

She'll actually return.

@Adamant @Memor-X but don't you think MCU time travel is fuck fest

I mean they messed up

Have GoT question but don;t know how to ask without spoiler

@AnkitSharma All time travel is lol. MCU is just a little crazier.

@Adamant MCU didn't even try

@AnkitSharma only fuck up i see is with Loki

@Memor-X no I was talking about inconsistency. How nebula survived, how this timeline work, sop much to know

@AnkitSharma i consider like this. A Wizard The Time Stone did it

when Tony snapped his figures and erased Thanos it erased his presence from their time and then did some complex paradoxy thing to keep him in their past

and because Nebula and Gamora had turned against Thanos the Snappening Mk 3 knew this and didn't dust them

lol

i just saw that i have something on the star board

instead of the gender swap we did see the All Girl Avengers fight Thanos lol

would we could consider Gender Swapped Tony, T'Challa and Strange being Pepper, one of the girls from Wakanda and Carol

Steve, Bucky and Thor could be Gamroa Nebula and Valkyrie

no idea which of the girls would replace perter though

@Memor-X holy moly

Why does Loki have to come back though?

@Adamant for Disney+

I liked that they weren't afraid to let a major character die.

@Adamant killing Iron mand or Cap I was expecting as they did enough in MCU and need new guys to carry forward

Right. But since irl people don't always die just when they've fulfilled their life...it was nice to have a few other deaths.

Agreed

Not like age of ultron when a chracter we barely care die with no emotional impact

This time death was impactful for Iron man

Balck widow was just woman in refrigerator , grrrr. I hate how they always handled her.

@DrRDizzle I loved the film but I had two issues 1) fucked up time travel logic 2) representation

For me, the time travel logic worked fine and I think that a lot of people are misunderstanding how the film explained time travel. As for representation, I was glad to see the first canonical, indisputably gay characters in the MCU even if they were just a random dude.

@AnkitSharma not to sound like a prick but if Wanda had died too they could have brought them back proper as Magneto's kids

instead they kill off one and let the other live. we're not getting Magneto aren't we

Also, I don't think you know what "fridging" means. It's not just the death of a female character - it's specifically when a love interest of the main character is killed in order to motivate the main character into revenge. Black Widow sacrificing herself to get the Soul Stone is not an example of fridging.

i was actually thinking that when they got there it was going to be Black Widow to die. like Hawkeye had his family to go back to if everything worked out

but i wonder how the Soul Stone goes back

No idea. I think there's a reason they skipped past "putting all the stones back" - it'd be boring

Haha, that would've been funny actually. Steve beating the crap out of a ghost

oh yeh, i just remembered that Steve doesn't know that Red Skull is still alive

that would be even more of a dick move

not only is the stone put back meaning he has to keep guarding the place but it was the same guy who got in his way last time that does it

@DrRDizzle that is not even represnetation, that's liek pitty charity and bl;ack wodow fullfill her women in refrigerator troope again

@DrRDizzle she is a female to fulfill love connection and to egt kidnapped ( age of ultron) killed to motivate other ( endgame)

@DrRDizzle and count as monster for not able to bear kids

@Memor-X god knows what they will do with X-men

@Memor-X lol

@Memor-X but he will be free either way as there are no stone in current timeline

@AnkitSharma well if we don't get Magneto lets get at least Doctor Doom

@Memor-X Yeah I want fanatstic four done right

First film was good, sequel was ok ok but remake messed up

@AnkitSharma The reason she calls herself a monster is because she's a trained assassin who has killed hundreds of people, not just because she can't have kids lol. Every Avenger in Avengers: Age of Ultron calls themselves a monster or something similiar at one point or another - it's kinda the overriding theme of the movie

And I promise, that's not what fridging is. Black Widow objectively did not get fridged.

@DrRDizzle `I agree to disagree and there attempt to inclusion with a throw off gay character was failure

WHy not use Valkyrie

Let her kiss one girl.

I don't agree to disagree. Please read this page (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Refrigerators) for a better understanding of what fridging is.

The TL;DR is that fridging removes a female characters agency - that isn't what happens in Avengers: Endgame, as it is Black Widow's choice to sacrifice herself

The only promininet gay character rumour MCU have is in Eternals as nobody really give a crap abotu them. They are cheap copy of New Gods

@DrRDizzle whole film was male driven, Balck widow did sucide for hawkeye, captain amrvel was extar with near to no character depth, only one good female fight scene for a minute

After 20+ film if this is representation then I am disapointed

Valkyrie bisexuality scene was cut on prupsoe in Thor 3

Black Widow didn't sacrifice herself for Hawkeye. She sacrificed herself for trillions of people, concluding her semi-redemptive character arc

@DrRDizzle she don't need redeeming

Iron man needed redeeming and he did greately, best character arc with proper conclusion

@AnkitSharma to us no but to herself yes

Yeah, she does. That's the whole point of the character. Think back to what Loki says to her in Avengers Assemble, about having red in her ledger, or she "swapped one set of lies for another" in Captain America: The Winter Soldier, or how she "doesn't need an answer" to the question of if she's worthy enough to pick up Mjolnir in Avengers: Age of Ultron.

@Memor-X she enevr got teh limelight she deserve , I know solo film is planned but are not we already too later

@DrRDizzle she redeemed already enough, hawkeye did no better and got no such redeeming too the face crap

Black Widow's entire arc in these films is about her believing that she is, at heart, a good person, despite her past. Sacrificing herself for trillions of people is the conclusion to that arc.

@DrRDizzle her arc was to be a Betty Rose rip of , agent 13 ripoff, hawkeye out of nowhere love interest ripoff who wnat to redeem himself as she is woman and man get clear pass

She isn't a love interest of Hawkeye though

Also, Hawkeye doesn't need redemption. That's not his character

@DrRDizzle she was crying for film and red skull said you need to sacrifise who you love not a collegue

There are multiple forms of love. People love their friends and family, not just their romantic partner.

And hawkeye and blakc widow do had fling in comics and shows but film never cleared much

@DrRDizzle need to talk to red skull for clarity :p

@DrRDizzle what about 80% male driven film when you have captain marvel?

Well, think about it - Thanos sacrificed Gamora, but he didn't romantically love her. He loved her like a daughter.

I'm glad Captain Marvel was only in it at the start and end, to be honest. Avengers: Endgame was first and foremost a film about saying goodbye to the old Avengers, so I'm glad they got their time.

@DrRDizzle yeah a goodbye to a team full of white dudes and woman who only need redemption

20+ films, still teh only gay character is a support group guy who get less time then even that broken spaceship from first scene

If that is the inclusion disney can give then it's made for white dudes to cheer other white dudes beating white or purple dudes

Only good inlusive film was Black Panther which was really really good and balanced in gender roles

Even fox tried in deadppol as they realised it's time now but fox is also teh studio who made love, Simon which disney will not do

At-least Wonder Woman is ally if not bisexual or bi-curious

@DrRDizzle if you are mistaken I did feel engame is good film and I put it in my top 5 or 7 from MCU for sure, need to decide later

I figured you still like it overall

@DrRDizzle but if they try to redeem black widow again in the solo film I will throw my chair on cinema screen

@DrRDizzle just a curious question which film you like more infinity war or endgame?

I like the all female rush scene. Also I dont know who is the gay character you are mentioning

@Moacir after the 5 years later thing where there's that group counselling session. the guy talking is talking about going on a date with another guy

took me a bit to catch on that he was talking about a guy

Oh right. To be fair, I thought it was a regular scene. Now that I think about it was a shoot at inclusion

@Moacir very small shot

A pellet

But overall, I liked the movie. My SO didnt, because Iron Man is her favorite hero

Also she got pissed that "Heroes do not get old" however that works

@Moacir yeh, a bit of a kicker in how we know for sure there wont be any more Iron Man Movies

like there was reports that Robert's contract would end with Endgame and there was nothing suggesting either way if he was being re-signed for more movies. more or less puts a nail in there

@Moacir she was pissed at that don't get older or that it's a lie?

@Memor-X She got pissed that Steve Rogers got old. She said that is not a thing. Heroes do not get old.

@Moacir unless they stop being heroes. i think that from the start Steve planned on not coming back when he went to take the stones back

i find it weird that Carter didn't see him the first time standing in her office

like he was right close to the window, the light would have shown someone in her office

@Memor-X Yes, he deserved the happy ending. What made me unhappy (While I understand the cinematic value of it) is that Hulk and Iron Man had to use the stones, with hulk getting his arm damaged(I think it will heal) and Iron Man dying, when both were ok with the new life post snap

Like, the guys who got away had to do sacrifices for those who lost. I think it would be "fair" if the sacrifices were like, Captain America and Wanda, for example.

@Moacir true and it did show that Thanos was right at first, but as he later realised he needed to erase those who remember what they used to have

Also Wanda kicked Thanos ass hard. Too bad they had that artillery thing in hand

@Moacir yeh, just imagine if that was Magneto

@Moacir if they hadn't they couldn't really have had Captain Marvel Deus ex machina

though we know one thing, even after 50% of the universe i culled, Fortnite is still going

...Which is basically Captain Marvel's only scene

@Jenayah True. All cinematic value

@Jenayah i felt that's what the used her as, first with Tony and Nebula getting to earth and then stopping Thanos's ship

The rest is "fetch Tony" and "get Thanos busy for a bit will you"

I loved the way that thanos removed the power stone from the glove in a quick thinking action

@Memor-X Hang on, Fortnite? is this related to this Thortnite meme I saw on Twitter?

@Moacir yep

btw, I didn't see Endgame yet, but I don't really care about spoilers that much

@Nzall possibly, it was the game the stone guy was playing in Thor's place

who Thor then threatened NoobMaster in that he would rip off the arms and shove them up his butt

And the reason that Wanda and Captain Marvel can go hand to hand with Thanos is due their power being derived from the stone themselves, right? Wanda from the mind stone and Carol from the Space stone

@AnkitSharma Avengers: Endgame is the better of the two in my opinion

You know, I find it entertaining that last weekend, there were 2 major characters, one from each of the 2 biggest visual media franchises, being the hero, and that they're both named Stark

@Nzall wont it be funny if they died too to "fix" thing in Westeros

@Memor-X With a snap

@Memor-X I mean, their character arc seems to be complete, so I wouldn't put it past the writers to have them die next episode

like John and Daenerys would be fighting the Night King and then Arya will snap her fingers, die, and John will become King and Daenerys gets her dragon back and flys away into the sunset

With the sound of metal clanking in the background

@Nzall it would not surprise me given the mortality rate of named characters

@Memor-X err, you did see last night's GoT episode, right?

@Nzall nope, i don't watch it

Arya killed the Night King apparently last night

Jumped on him from a tree with her special dagger

@Nzall but she did not die in the process so not like the finger snap

@Memor-X Yeah, but John and Daenerys can't really be fighting the Night King if Arya already killed him

@Nzall true, i was just making dumb guesses

Maybe the Night King dead makes Tyrion say "T'was not the Night King behind all this. He was merely my puppet. The real mastermind behind this.." as he removes his mask "It was I, Dio!"

Unless he is dead. I dont really follow Game of Thrones

@Moacir with the golden glow too

@Moacir if i overheard correctly, the Night King can raise the dead

i think he's sorta a zombie because i heard he got one of Daenerys's dragons because he killed it

Going back to Marvel a bit, I just remembered that there is a plot hook on a comic where Iron Man uploaded his brain somewhere in case he became evil or something, and then erased his memory about such backup

@Moacir i get the feeling he wouldn't do that in the MCU, like he had no backup for Jarvis/Vision

@Memor-X Maybe he learns from that?

I am pretty sure he wasn't doing nothing during the five years time period

@Moacir he was making Rescue Armor and raising a daughter

@Memor-X Exactly. Maybe he thought of the backup thing, maybe not

We will only ne sure when Marvel stops making movies

also i feel that when he looked at Strange he had the idea to sacrifice himself and needed confirmation that it wouldn't be for nothing

i think Strange might have knew it too when in the previous film he said it was the only way

Yes, totally agree with that. He looked to ask "Do I need to kill myself"

Although Strange just responded "One", Stark knew he needed to do that, regardless of the outcome

And I think he got this idea from Thanos removing the stone from the glove

I wonder if we can see that he is removing the stones or it is always obscured

@Moacir when the scene gets on YouTube I'll slow down the speed and try to update my answer to movies.stackexchange.com/a/99636/63559

@Jenayah i might also add that the second Gauntlet that Thanos has was made with the same tech as originally it it would not have fitted Banner's Hulk sized hand, but as he is about to but it on we see it getting bigger and we see the stones move about when they were putting them on it

I am surprised Black Widow and Hawkeye survived until Infinity War.

Basically they could be killed by Ultron or Loki's pinky.

That would be overkill when you have plain old gravity

So...was the Terminator soundtrack intentional when that dude just stood in the fire unharmed? ;-)