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12:00 AM
(also my )stack and )cs actually are usable & helpful, who knew)
 
@dzaima Ha, a language that doesn't even have Over.
 
@Marshall that mess of a file would definitely benefit of some functionaly stuff
(i'm kind of afraid of making "vanity" functions due to java's inlining possibly checking whether the bytecode size is under 35, and i'm too lazy to check if that's the case)
 
Having to get the types right also probably makes it more trouble than it's worth.
 
@Marshall getting the types right once is probably easier than getting them right multiple times, each in a slightly different context
@dzaima (speaking of which, setting max inline size to 1000 doesn't seem to change things. either way, probably way too unimportant for what's being done otherwise)
 
12:40 AM
Hmmm. Why is (1,2,3)≢,/1 2 3?
 
@Moonchild ,/ on a vector always returns a scalar (as / always decrements the rank by 1)
(you just usually don't see it as in e.g. +/1 2 3 the resulting 6 is equal to ⊂6, but it does happen)
(in dzaima/APL i special-cased / on vectors even though it's very bad in the general case; in BQN ´ works only on vectors, so it can freely choose to be sane)
 
...right, got it
in other news, my apl implementation is coming along swimmingly; all scalar functions supported, good number of structural functions, and various other misc functions and operators (along with an apparently broken /)
@dzaima so can you not do the equivalent of +/3 3⍴5? (Or there is different syntax for that?)
 
@Moonchild not that easily at least. you can do +´˘ 3‿3⥊5 - plus-reduce each cell
 
@Moonchild Here are the various forms. APL F⌿a is equivalent to BQN F¨´<˘a.
 
1:05 AM
cool
incidentally, re 'subtraction, division, and span are backwards [...] not really fixable; too much precedent' I think you could definitely fix that. Left-associative and residue are already backwards from the norm, so there's (heh) a precedent. It would also help with the problem of modified assignment
 
@Moonchild it'd probably be very jarring that 10-1 is ¯9 anyways. | can get away with being reversed due to it not being that present in other forms, but -?
(¬ could definitely do with its args being swapped, but that breaks the beautiful fact that both the monadic and dyadic forms are (1+-))
 
imo that's fairly low on the list, as far as jarring things go. In stack langs, you can't even right 10-1, you have to write 10 1 -
 
@Moonchild but when you do write 10-1, most all people would still expect 9
(imo if - had its args reversed, that would be the top 1 jarring thing about APL)
(the correct way to fix the backwardness of is to have a LTR APL, but that's extremely jarring in its own way)
 
I think that's just the end of the story: no one would use it. I could also write numbers in little endian order, which is better for many reasons, but it will completely prevent anyone from wanting to learn the language.
 
@dzaima (obligatory mention that i have a LTR dzaima/APL)
 
1:18 AM
@dzaima Also you can probably turn the self-hosted BQN compiler left-to-right by just taking out rev and making some small adjustments.
 
@Marshall (i definitely can't :p)
 
@dzaima I heard someone say that the only reason apl goes rtl is so you don't have to write 5+6→a. I suppose it could be special-cased (even more than it already is), but it is still a valid reason to prefer rtl
 
@Moonchild yeah, vs is one of my main reasons to prefer RTL too. in that dzaima/APL branch i just went with 2+2→a since i wasn't going to use it anyways
 
 
1 hour later…
2:49 AM
@dzaima there is that. But I also feel it encourages thinking in a top-down way. Not on the level of whole programs, obviously, but in individual expressions
 
 
6 hours later…
8:26 AM
CMC: Solve this, but in the form of 1⊥⍨something or (something)⊥1
 
 
6 hours later…
2:28 PM
How to solve ^ (in short, 1⊥⍨ evaluates a sum of product scan starting with 1.)
 
 
3 hours later…
5:52 PM
pushed the valuecopy changes, along with way too many small random optimizations
 
 
2 hours later…
7:30 PM
@dzaima Pushed the array ordering gauntlet. Good luck.
 
 
2 hours later…
RGS
9:23 PM
@Adám something funny is going on :D I do ]load HttpCommand in my interpreter but then can't call HttpCommand.Get from inside my dfns
But calling it like #.HttpCommand.Get works...
 
@RGS Where is your dfn located?
 
RGS
@Adám in the Contest2020.Problems namespace
 
@RGS If you assign a variable in the root namespace, you can't see it from other namespaces without prefixing it with #.
 
RGS
@Adám oh ok... weird then, I was sure my PastTasksBlast was working but now it had this namespace issue...
Thanks
 
@RGS Maybe you loaded HttpCommand into the current namespace?
 
RGS
9:27 PM
@Adám maybe; also for this particular function I started by developing it as a dfn independent of these namespaces so maybe in the end I just copied the dfn into the namespace and didn't test it again
 
Sounds likely.
 
RGS
@Adám sounds silly on my part :upside_down_face:
 
RGS
9:42 PM
Not sure if this means "alphabetic order" should be "alphabetical order" in the 4th bullet point of the "Notes" in Problem 9
 
@RGS "alphabetical" would be the more common word, but the article you linked to clearly states that both are correct.
Heh, why is , called catenate and not concatenate as in newer languages? While I don't know for sure, catenate might have been the more common term during Iverson's formative years.
 
RGS
@Adám that's interesting
 
@Adám may also be why the unix command is called 'cat'
 
9:57 PM
@Moonchild Ah, good point.
 
although, if you turn off smoothing, it becomes much less clear (from that graph) that either term was dominant until the late 70s
 
@Moonchild True, that's why I said "might". However, it is clear that catenate was no worse than concatenate which only became the term shortly after that.
 
@Adám right
 

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