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4:35 AM
@EriktheOutgolfer I've just downloaded ngn/APL and use the backtick keyboard of it. I have wanted to make an APL layout for Hackers keyboard though
 
 
1 hour later…
5:43 AM
@dzaima Downloaded ngn/apl? What does that even mean? Are you just accessing local files from the browser?
 
@Adám mhm
 
@Adám update: I haven't been able to make the bookmarklet work yet, neither in Browser nor in Chrome
 
 
1 hour later…
7:13 AM
\o/ I recompiled Hacker's keyboard!!!
it did involve deleting the code for the voice recognition thing as it needed some library, but it's the key I hated the most so i'm happy
 
@dzaima The repo seems abandoned.
 
@Adám yeah, I had to use old versions of many things to get it to work
 
@dzaima Are you going to make it into a dedicated APL keyboard with the traditional mappings?
 
@Adám it'll be another language with the hold-to-choose options for APL chars (that is, if I can even get that far). Otherwise, it's just the regular Hacker's keyboard (though installed as an APK)
 
@dzaima Hold to choose APL character is actually a really good idea, as we always fight over shifting keys and prefix ` makes it hard to type a backtick.
 
7:30 AM
aight what language to replace with APL
 
@dzaima What's the current list? (And why can't you just add another language?)
 
@Adám all starting with values-, (Error:android-apt-compiler: [java] invalid resource directory name: /media/dzaima/stuff/stuff/HackersKeyboard/hackerskeyboard/java/res values-en-APL)
oh hey values-en-rPL compiles (values-en-rAPL doesn't ಠ_ಠ)
 
@dzaima PL? Or one of the non-qwerty en ones?
@dzaima Ah, it must be values-en-r[A-Z]{2}
 
@dzaima Woo! But why is the layout missing lots of non-letter keys?
 
@Adám because I'm using the compact layout. I can swipe up to open another row of esc `-\;=[] home end del
and all of those have hold-click things and the numbers are heavily overloaded too
 
@dzaima Ah, right you need those for APL. Did you finish mapping all the keys?
 
no, I just got one character in :P (but it shouldn't take long, the file's easy to modify (at least for the alphabet chars))
 
@dzaima It would seem that that file is just a lookup for -keymap. I'm sure you can just add more @string/alternates_for_ in -keymap, or just code everything in -keymap.
 
7:57 AM
should I add the otherwise gettable ones to the alts (e.g. * for p, ? for q)?
 
@dzaima Yes!
 
8:08 AM
@dzaima I use all of those when writing APL. I use the normal locations when writing other languages :-)
 
@Adám just whether on mobile it'd be useful or add more errors accidentally entering them instead of the special char
 
@dzaima I doubt that. I'd say that on a dedicated APL layout, every key should have only 2 alternate glyphs; the two APL ones.
 
dammit i just noticed that in non-compact-5-row mode the non-QWERTY layout by the GB/DV/CX shines trough
otherwise, keymaps are done
oh, xml-en-rCX|DV is probably responsible for that
 
8:38 AM
oooh im a moron
shouldn't've started the keymap from the CX layout.. Also I figured out how to make a whole new APL english language
 
8:53 AM
landscape (well, full 5 row) layout is fully working, but I'd really like the uncompacted compact 5-row layout to be usable too
 
> uncompacted compact
 
@Adám it's this thing. not uncompacted compact layout would be that but without the top row
 
9:14 AM
oh they weren't kidding about the compact layout being US-only, it's a global file non-specific to languages D:
 
@dzaima Maybe because it is hopeless for most other languages to fit on so few keys.
@dzaima Is your development in an online repository?
 
@Adám it's a local copy (I haven't commited anything yet), I'll publish a fork when it's in a usable state
I could change the global compact layouts alts but that'd change this from an extension to a global thing, and I couldn't figure out how to make it sideloadable with the playstores version
 
@dzaima nice to see you're working on an apl keyboard, until now, I have been using a tio link with all the apl chars in front of a comment, and I would copy-paste them whenever I needed them
needless to say, terribly inefficient
 
So the JS language bar isn't isn't usable on mobiles?
 
I forgot about the js language bar, I should try that on mobile
 
9:25 AM
@Adám ngn/APL works (somewhat) fine (most of the time), but I haven't attempted to use the bookmarklet
 
(on desktop, I already use keyboard layout, so I don't use the language bar)
 
ok i give up on compact layout for now
 
9:42 AM
right so here's the project and here's the apk. The google play version needs to be removed first sadly, losing all settings :/
under input languages there's the new language English (APL) [en_AL]. The alpabet characters all work in all layouts but everything else works only in the 5 row one
 
@dzaima b⊥⍭?
 
@Adám that's what happened when I did alt+b alt+shift+b. Theres alpha/omega underbar too, the layout's not specific to any APL (and really I should add more chars)
 
@dzaima When you did alt+shift+b where?
@dzaima e has but is missing .
 
@Adám that one's just probably not clicking e properly :p
 
@dzaima z has but is missing .
 
9:51 AM
@Adám that's the linux keyboard missing it
@Adám with a modified aplkeys.sh
 
@dzaima It seems you need to update your Linux :-) The update has been out for a year now. Also:
` has ⋄¤ but should be ⋄⌺.
 
yeah, I should've probably went trough this before publishing
 
@dzaima Well, other than these 3 it looks good. Can't wait to try it.
 
going trough that list, after adding the useful stuff and deleting the pointless, left are these. Dunno if any should be added but for the time being, they're not
pushed the added chars
 
10:10 AM
@dzaima is on that list. Anyway, depends on your target audience. ngn/apl uses ∞↗⍁. APLX uses ⍇⍈⍐⍗. NARS has ⊇§π⊙⍦‼⌻∞∅
 
@Adám right, but it's still on the keyboard. Currently really only TIO APLs need to be supported as I don't think there are other APLs accessible on mobile, and ngn/apl has its own keyboard
 
 
1 hour later…
11:19 AM
@dzaima Hm, non-ASCII APL symbols don't show on the keys, which isn't much of a problem, just looks awfully inconsistent.
 
@Adám yeah, I noticed. Seems to be all non-ASCII, not just APL too.
with that I just noticed that > isn't on 7 :|
oh, \> doesn't seem to have worked in XML ಠ_ಠ
 
@EriktheOutgolfer yeah, I know how to fix it. I thought that \ would work because android studio said to do \' for ' by some reason
 
@dzaima Are you going to put it on Play?
 
@Adám that'd be too much of a hassle and I don't think it's worth it
 
11:31 AM
@dzaima Maybe we could fork it and publish it. Most people don't know how/want/have permission to sideload.
 
@Adám if I don't have to worry about the google play part much, I'm fine with that. All I think I'd need to do for it to be usable for play store is sign with something that doesn't have the password 111111 :p
and probably polish other stuff like remove the completely useless voice recognition button, and figure out how to change the package name
 
@dzaima Heh, change 🎙︎ into an APL shifting key…
 
@Adám that'd actually take a lot of effort though (and the button's already got a disable switch in the settings)
 
@dzaima I was just Joking.
 
11:47 AM
> Compilation completed with 15517 errors and 0 warnings in 4s 488ms
yay
wait now a global string replace of "pocketworkstation" to "dzaima" works?!?
ok now I'm okay with globally changing the compact layout as it's a different app now (but now I have to re-set settings D:)
@Adám oh settings key → setttings for hackers keyboard → theme and label settings → labelled alternative keys → show all
 
12:18 PM
@dzaima Whoa, nice!
 
12:34 PM
@dzaima I wonder if it is possible to add alternates for the shifted characters. Like <string name="key_ad10_shift">P</string><string name="key_ad10_shift">@string/alternates_for_P</string>, so can be shown when P is depressed.
 
@Adám shift+holdchoose is many touchstrokes. Maybe for the /_ed chars some day, but I'd rather leave on regular P
 
@dzaima Sorry, I meant when Shift is depressed. Could be nice to see all the secondary glyphs at a glance then.
 
@Adám oh the little icons/shift versions are defined as android:shiftLabel=".." for the whole key so that's not achievable.
oh yay turns out changing any option in the settings now crashes the app (but still changes it) :|
 
@dzaima I managed to change settings with no crash (but then again, I'm on BlueStacks).
 
12:49 PM
@Adám I've changed a ton of stuff from the version on GH (including removing the option for the voice input)
 
@dzaima Any visual changes (I'm about to email CXO)?
 
@Adám no, just stuff like changing package to org.dzaima.pckeyboard, name to Hacker's APL Keyboard (both temporary/to be changed things, I just wanted to distinguish from the official), adding APL chars to the compact mode
@dzaima yay fixed by removing even more stuff
 
1:14 PM
pushed the changes. Now the app can be installed at the same time as the original Hacker's keyboard, but that means that all settings have to be re-set (again…)
 
@dzaima Eh, not a big deal.
 
I know that under the fn settings there's still a microphone icon that does nothing but I can't be bothered to remove it, and I'd have nothing to replace it with
 
@dzaima Don't bother. However, do you think the numpad / and * could become ÷ and ×?
 
@Adám seems so, gonna try
@Adám yep, and very easily.
 
@dzaima Appropriate for an APL keyboard, no?
 
1:22 PM
@Adám mhm, pushed
 
@dzaima Compare to:
@dzaima You changed ¤ to but you may want to re-add ¤ since you do have . They belong together (Isolate and Parallel). On my own layout, I put it on N (next to on M) but I do like your pairing with .
 
ngn
@Adám has anyone tried to decrypt the nsa message?
 
@ngn I don't know.
 
@Adám so on ` or N? This is a software keyboard, there can be more than 2 alt-chars :p (the is alt+shift+N for me, I didn't put it there)
 
1:40 PM
@dzaima Never mind. The keyboard has a composition key, and Compose+o,x gives ¤.
 
@Adám that's only easily accessible in the full 5-row layout though. I'll just add it atop n
ooh compose could probably be used for the quad/underscored chars :D
 
1:54 PM
@Adám I love it that it's a german IBM 5100 (also the APL books and the banana)
 
@J.Sallé banana is for scale.
 
2:08 PM
@Adám yeah that's what I assumed
 
ngn
2:34 PM
we could post it on puzzling.SE to find out what the message says
 
@ngn Good idea, but is it allowed when we don't have an objective winning criteria (since we don't know the answer)?
 
ngn
@Adám I'll try to find out
@Adám any clue where the image came from originally?
 
@ngn No.
 
ngn
the "banana for scale" is a good sign of nerdy humour, the message is likely decryptable
I wonder what the bear and the badge mean
 
@ngn I was just about to ask.
 
ngn
2:42 PM
@Adám the bear looks a bit like Misha, though the snout is not quite similar
 
@ngn it's literally a banana for scale
Also looks like whoever posted the image originally also doesn't know the contents of the message
 
ngn
18
Q: Is it appropriate to pose a puzzle where I don't know the answer?

Steven StadnickiThis would seem to be a trivial question, but with the current structure of puzzling.SE I'm legitimately not sure: I have a question that's a variant on another puzzle previously asked on the site; the difference is that I don't know the answer to my variant. The question would be reasonably appr...

@J.Sallé looks like a job for puzzling.SE :)
 
2:58 PM
> Wanted: Somebody to go back in time with me. This is not a joke. P.O. Box 91 Ocean View, WA 99393. You’ll get paid after we get back. Must bring your own weapons. Safety not guaranteed. I have only done this once before.
 
ngn
@Adám is that the secret message?
 
@ngn Read the comments there.
 
ngn
@Adám comments... require js
 
ngn
3:13 PM
@Adám I still don't understand. How do you know that that is the answer?
 

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