@flawr The density of water depends on temperature, but its maximum value is only ~0.99997 g/cm^3, at 4 degrees C.

take that, metric system

In my fluid mech class, we were required to use the value from the table and weren't allowed to round up to 1.

@PhiNotPi haha:)

@PhiNotPi But I mean metric is not that complicated, you can easily compute the A0 area by using the density of water.

reddit.com/r/specializedtools/comments/f68pxw/…

@flawr that's neat

On a different post in that subreddit, I thought this comment thread was great: old.reddit.com/r/specializedtools/comments/f47isp/…

Literally laughed out loud at this one:

> ...you are the most useless old person ever for the purpose of these questions. Congratulations.

@Feeds There's a restaurant a short walk away from my apartment that I've been getting burgers from a couple times a week for the last few months. They have Impossible Burgers™ and I've been considering trying one. This video is pushing me closer to doing that.

My hesitation has been due to the fact that my sense of taste (and lack of a sense of smell) is so different from most people that either I'm going to love it because I can't tell the difference or I'm going to hate it because the differences get covered up by aromas and whatnot for typical people, and I would really rather not buy a whole burger and then eat one bite.

What if you ate the whole burger in one bite? :D

@El'endiaStarman haha :P

@El'endiaStarman I have a strange urge to rebuild one. It would allow me to send messages in my crappy handwriting.

d'oh

@James I got myself a small midi keyboard that I can hook up to my computer. Now I realize how much easier it is to understand stuff about harmony when you have a keyboard. Pretty much all other instrument just suck when it comes to that!

:)

@flawr You should learn Down on it, and figure out what the chords do :P

I didn't say I can actually play it!

Because I can't. I can just press some keys and then some tones come out:)

@James but it might be a great exercise:)

Down is a relatively simple song (unless you want to play the vocal Melody)

I'll give you a hint to start out: it's in C minor

Hm I was already struggling with the first bar. After the three opening tones (which form the c-minor triad) there is a chord, but it doesn't seem to be a triad, just g-d, is that right?

Somehow no triad seems to fit.

@flawr Close

How much do you want to figure out on your own, and how much I tell you?

Also, I just looked up the sheet music to it, and apparently I've been playing part of it wrong for a very very long time

so now I think we have c, eb, g, (G-d), G, B, eb, (G-d) that repeats over the first few bars, can you say whether this is correct?

or maybe where my mistake is, if ther is one:)

(I just used upper case letter to denote the lower octave)

c, eb, g, (G-d), G, B, eb, (G-d)

I bolded the notes that are right

Spoiler

my next guess before I check your spoiler c, eb, g, (g-d), Ab, C, eb, (G-d)

@flawr Oh very good! That combined with the spoiler is almost exactly right

I really had trouble hearing this, but now I wonder whether it is because I just used some saw-wave synth plugin in the software I'm using and not some piano-like thing:)

It's also hard to sound things out at first until you get more practiced

Spoiler again

@James just a notation question: If it is clear that we are in the key of c-minor, we could write VII instead of bVII?

So putting all that together ^^, what chords are being represented?

@flawr I think the answer is it depends on who you ask. Generally, I prefer to write everything in relation to the major key and use upper/lowercase to denote quality. So if we're in C minor or C major, then I is C major, i is C minor. VII is B major(with a D# and F#!), bVII is Bb major, etc.

But there are definitely people who will write everything in relation to the key you're in including the major/minor-ness, where I is C major in C major, and Cm in C minor. In which case VII would be Bb major, and B major would be #VII

ah then I confused that

thanks for the explanation!

I didn't really get a definitive answer other than "Both exist". Since then, I've formed an opinion, and I prefer to refer to things based on their relation to the major key, even in a minor song

so with the convention based on the major key: we have i, bvii-without-third, bVI, and then V (even bars) or v (on odd bars), is that correct?

(btw MH have a few new videos out since I checked the last time!!!)

@flawr bVII-without-fifth

Bbm is Bb-Dd-F, Bb is Bb-D-F

ah right, I got confused, but that is what I meant:P

I have to continue tomorrow as I need to get some sleep:)

thanks a lot for the lesson so far!!!

I like to think about chords as like a "what harmonic framework does this section fall into", in which case specifying something like "without-fifth" usually doesn't add a whole lot more since the Bb-D is strong enough to suggest that the whole chord should be a Bb

Although that raises a question. Why does a Bb-D here suggest a Bb without the fifth, and not a Gm without the root?

@flawr Any time :)

These can be much more frequent now that you have something to practice on :P

I was just about to ask, you could also interpet it as a G-Bb-D (v?) without the prime, but wouldn't it be very strange to play a chord without the root?

This Bb-D just "sounds" major not minor?

@flawr Yep. The main reason is that the lowest note you play is probably carries the most weight in what you perceive to be the overall chord. So frequently if I'm harmonizing with a C chord, my left hand almost always plays a low C-C or C-G-C, while my right hand is a bit more free (for example, you could play a G-D in the right hand, and overall it still colors it as some kind of C chord, although a more interesting one)

@James yes I think the in things I read in the past few days the roman numerals were used as scale degrees, and right now I think that was somehow more intuitive than basing it on the major - but it is certainly good to know both conventions:)

@James I see, yes

Although I think the highest note of the chord carries the most weight in what you perceive to be the "melody" of the chord. So like playing (C-F-A), (C-E-G) creates a melodic feeling of A-G. Even though the whole thing is an F-C chord progression, it has a nicer feeling and more sense of melody than (F-A-C), (C-E-G), which sounds blocky and jumpy

@James I noticed that a few times when I did a similar exercise for myself: First I always thought I would have to use this most prominent note as the root, but it never worked out, it almost always was the fifth.

And that was a small revelation for me:)

Yeah, that's definitely the first thing I try to ingrain in my piano students that are learning theory/how to play from chords. Which voicings of the chords you pick are super important in how you color the overall phrase, and the easiest way to think about that is by creating a melody

@flawr Although it's worth noting that this is a reason that I and vii are so similar and somewhat interchangeable. So Am is A-C-E, and C is C-E-G. A lot of places you can resolve to an Am, you could resolve to a C instead (and vice versa). Also, Am7 (A-C-E-G) is a common variation on minor chords

you mean I and vi?

Oh, whoops

Yes

we call those "parallel" in german (the minor parallel to the major/vice versa)

Oh hey, I sorta wrote a piano song yesterday! Would you like to hear it?

@flawr In English as well

@James sure!

I don't know if this link works or not: cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/428966514830606336/…

(also, it's just a scratch track, I didn't play it very well, I just wanted to record it)

And the thing I noticed today: Let's say you choose some major scale on your keyboard, and you only use notes of this scale: If you play a major chord (no inversion) and you lower the root and the third each one step, you get the V chord, and if you mirror it (move the third and the fifth of the root one step up, then you get the IV - on the circle of fifths the two chords right and left next to the root:)

(and I was excited to find out :)

And the same also seems to work for minor

@James worked!

@flawr Although that reminds me of something else I wanted to tell you about

Are you familiar with harmonic minor scales?

Also, which chord in down has a note that doesn't fit into the key of C minor?

@James iirc this is where you raise the 7th tone half a step have a better leading tone to the root?

Yes and yes!

:D

@James sounds really pleasant! I like it:)

Do you happen to publish your stuff on soundcloud?

So one of the reasons that the V-I or V-i is such an important progression and so good and creating tension that resolves to the tonic is because of the B-C, which is only moving a half-step. When you do a v-I or v-i, you lose that half step movement. Which is why harmonic minor is common

@flawr I haven't written very much before, so no. Though I'm trying to make it a more frequent thing

Please continue sending them my way:)

Oh, to add to that ^^, a "plagal cadence" is IV-I, which also has a half step movement, though moving down instead of up

So the two most common chord progressions contain both of the half-step movements in a major key

Ah I think I've heard that term before.

Hm that makes so much sense.

It is funny how I knew the sound, but I just didn't have the vocabulary for it.

That's what theory's great for: Helping you understand and label things you've already heard :)

Haha, I just realized my example chord progression from that music.se question is literally just down

That is why math is hard without the right definitions. There is the saying that a good defiinition makes half a theorem:)

So, now I really have to leave, it is way to late:)

Thanks again, it was really entertaining!