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02:12
@flawr Not really. I think the word used does depend a lot on the piece of text it's in though
yeah. I'd say that each are more commonly used in different contexts
like, "holy" is kind of the base term IMO (and the most common)
"sacred" is more commonly used for objects or events
and "hallowed" pretty much always makes me think "hallowed ground"
but I think you could use them interchangeably anywhere
02:29
"Hallowed" can be used for places or days. "Hallowed manger ground" and "hallowed eve" (which, incidentally, is basically the source of "Halloween") are good examples.
"Sacred" can be used for times, places, and objects. Rarely for people. Typically this means that the thing has been made holy. (As in, consecrated.)
"Holy" covers all the above and can be applied to anything.
"Hallowed" is usually used in situations where a day/place has been often used in connection with or for sacred/holy rituals/things.
"Holy" is (generally) the only one that can be applied to things that are intrinsically holy and not made that way.
Yeah, Hallowed definitely has a connotation of "made that way"
but I don't think I've actually heard it used in real life outside of hallowed ground
(and hallowed eve, but nobody actually says that except in reference to halloween)
03:06
@NathanMerrill people actually say that?
yeah. I've occasionally heard "all hallows eve" or similar phrases
but it sounds archaic (and is supposed to)
@NathanMerrill well, Halloween is basically an abbreviation of that
but hallows there means saints, so not sure how related that would be
yeah. And people like to get all medieval during that time :P
03:50
One phrase I think of is the term "holy site." Locations can be sacred (like, cemeteries or churches or whatever) but "holy sites" are places like Dome of the Rock, etc. that are widely-acknowledged for their religious significance.
 
4 hours later…
08:13
@ASCII-only @NathanMerrill @El'endiaStarman @PhiNotPi Thanks for the explanatiosn:)
 
6 hours later…
14:43
@flawr One of the better numberphile videos in a long time
15:08
> Substraction
@DJMcMayhem I was too tired to pay attention to that video, but as I stopped it, that word was the last word I heard
it's been reverberating in my head now :P
Haha
I've learned a lot about different dialect's usage of math words from Numberphile. Particularly "Maths"
 
2 hours later…
16:43
@DJMcMayhem is that a correct word now or isn't it?
I have no idea.
I always say subtraction, and I've never heard substraction before watching that video
@DJMcMayhem I used to write substraction in english for the longest time, until someone - I believe in TNB - corrected me.
@flawr Super random question. Since you're not a native English speaker, which way do you learn when there are dialect differences?
> ... the form “substract” did exist in English until about the 18th century (...), but it is now considered completely obsolete.
Like, for example do you say AME: "Math" or BRE: "Maths"?
16:46
Also in french you could say that, but the more modern version is soustraire, but also with an s in the middle.
@DJMcMayhem When I read stuff that aren't written the way I learned it :P
In school we were taught BE exclusively.
But when you learned English, what dialect did your teacher/course/book/whatever default to?
Ninja'd
And the internet primarily speaks AE.
But other than that I'm not really aware of a lot of differences.
I probably could say whether someone is from down under, US, England, Irish/Scottish/Whathever
Most of them are spelling. For example, AE/BE goes Theater/Theatre, Color/Colour, Gray/Grey.
There are no differences, the ones who do not write colour are wrong.
:)
And don't get me started on "Cookie/Biscuit/Scone"
16:51
A friend once explained me the differences of what you call certains soft drinks in different areas of the US, but I don't exactly remember.
I think some say "coke" for pretty much everything, while for others it is specifically cocacola or something like that:)
I don't even know the difference. I think that's largely regional.
(in my dialect) "Coke" is a specific drink, "Soda" is category of drinks, and "Pop" is a weird way to say "Soda"
ah right soda was the other word
I think maybe some people would say "pepsi" for everything, but IMO that's just as weird as saying "coke" for everything
my "problem" is that most of the people I read/write/talk with probably aren't native english speakers
@flawr "Coke" can also mean cocaine, so that sometimes can get interesting
16:54
@DJMcMayhem yeah I know, I think I saw some prank videos where they played on that:)
anway brb, need to get some dinner/supper/whateveryouwannacallit
Dinner. It's called Dinner :P
Supper sounds archaic to me
@NathanMerrill Petition to change the room description to For discussion about programming, math, science, linguistics, and related topics. Not about PPCG (the site itself) or golfing.
:P
17:16
that's not a terrible idea
we talk about linguistics all the time here
This has my vote.
Honestly, this room is basically mini-TNB minus code-golf the noise :P
room topic changed to Primes and Squares: For discussion about programming, math, linguistics, science, and related topics. Not about PPCG (the site itself) or golfing. (no tags)
3
@DJMcMayhem supper doesn't to me. I think my mom used it all the time
I think I say "dinner", though
also, if none of you have seen Company Man: I've been binge watching him for the past week or so
he's great
although, I'm pretty sure that the google algorithms have put us in very similar buckets, and so most of you have already seen it because google recommended it to you already :P
it's crazy to think about it: but the fact that I clicked on certain videos and watch them likely has a non-zero effect on the recommendations you guys get on YT
that's crazy
18:25
Random thought/observation/question: A Klein Bottle is an object that can only exist in 4D that has a single 3D plane (instead of 2 like a typical bottle would). A Mobius Strip is an object that can only exist in 3D that has a single 2D plane (instead of 2 like a typical ring would).
Is there an object that can only exist in 2D space that only has a single 1D... Plane?
so, an object that only exists on a single axis?
I don't think so
You have a line, a ray, and a line segment
and a point?
I think that's exhaustive
But this object would exist in 2 dimensions
so, like a circle that isn't filled in?
I guess? I clearly haven't thought this through very well
Although a circle that's filled in in 1D is two points that are connected, but don't appear to be
yeah, try explaining a circle to a 1D world: We draw a line, and one end touches the other
18:35
@NathanMerrill Flatland is very relevant to this
Flatland is a super awesome concept, but it really breaks down at 1D.
If you had beings in a 1D world, then no being would ever come in to contact with more than 2 other beings ever
have you read the book?
I haven't
I highly recommend it, geom.uiuc.edu/~banchoff/Flatland
the author does describe a 1D society
Oh, cool! Thanks
18:46
let me see if I can find a quote...
here's a square, the protagonist, looking at a 1D world in his dream (spoiler?) geom.uiuc.edu/~banchoff/Flatland/Figure-5.GIF
basically chapter 13
he does go on to visit a 0D world, governed by a sole point, king of his universe, and his thoughts
19:00
@DJMcMayhem I think a kleinbottle is pretty much 2d?
@DJMcMayhem I agree with @NathanMerrill, a circle.
@DJMcMayhem yep
That's definitely 3D
@DJMcMayhem it is a 2d surface
just as a circle {(x,y) | x^2 + y^2 = 1} is an 1D surface manifold
19:35
@Cowsquack I just read almost that whole thing (there was some skimming). It's not quite what I expected
The English is very formal/weird.
personally I found the language enjoyable to read
And his description of Flatlander females is bizarre
from what I read on wikipedia, flatland is satirical, mocking the victorian society the author lived in
hence describing females as lines
What does that have to do with anything?
I did find it very entertaining how the sphere freaked out when the square asked about the 4th dimension lol
@DJMcMayhem wiat what does "that" refer to now
19:38
Victorian society and line shaped females?
@DJMcMayhem yeah, one of my most favourite quotes from the book
Also one thing that didn't make sense to me was the description of gravity. It seemed like he was trying to imply that gravity pulled the flatlanders south, but only slightly? I don't understand how that works out or the orientation of flatland
tbf so does talking lines and limbed polygons :P
there's a new whatif!
this never happens
HOLY MOLY! *click*
On another note, I really liked this:
19:53
@NathanMerrill It's about time
> That's one large, supremely complicated and unnecessary sliding-and-falling-and-tumbling step for a man, one giant but equally pointless leap for mankind.
20:21
@DJMcMayhem the entire pole sequence sounds surprisingly fun
if it wasn't so long
@NathanMerrill Blame the person on the pole for not wanting to slide into supersonic winds.
I wonder what the fastest vertical ascent possible is
by a human
like, you give them whatever structure they want (a rope, some stairs, whatever)
and you simply measure their vertical speed
obviously the structure can't provide any of the vertical speed (though I'm not sure how to define that)
so you just measure top speed? no matter how short?
I have the impression that this might be difficult to measure, as humans tend to have very un-uniform movements.
hmmm...good point. I'd want to be it to be over something short (like 10 seconds or something)
I think some kind of stairs or ladder would win
20:32
Maybe some sort of double-sided rock-climbing wall
I think you'd want to include both hands and feet
oooh....take a V-shaped pipe. Put it at a 60 degree angle, and put handholds all the way up it
if you put stairs where your feet are, you basically scramble up
still thinking a ladder would be more efficient: you cannot really do much work with your arms.
(compared to your legs)
you may be right.
or maybe an arborist on SRT
they have pretty efficient systems for ascending ropes
It's got to be stairs
ooh! I found it
the term is called "Skyrunning" or "Tower running"
obviously the competitions aren't "bring your own structure", but it's very much focused on rapid ascent
:O
Although something like this is much more fun to watch IMO
@DJMcMayhem think of what they could do on a ladder (with rungs according to their preference)
@DJMcMayhem it can also be fun to do :)
Oh I know. I go bouldering about once a week
didn't find the video I was looking for. maybe tomorrow:)
@DJMcMayhem seems climbing related activities are quite common in this chatroom:)
I didn't know anyone in here other than El'endia was into climbing
@flawr What kind of climbing do you like?
20:47
@DJMcMayhem the kind of climbing with real rock:)
Bouldering or with ropes?
with ropes:) I just like doing it outside a lot more than indoors
@NathanMerrill maybe we want to add that topic too? :)
anyways, I need to go, cu!
@DJMcMayhem Oh my gosh, those are insane.
@flawr lol
that record: the guy went up and down a 988-step staircase every 10 minutes for 12 hours
@El'endiaStarman Yeah, it's good to watch those every now and then when I'm feeling good about my climbing ability.
20:55
@DJMcMayhem Hahaha. I'm just proud that I have some idea of how hard that stuff is.
I actually involuntarily held my breath a couple times.
Alright, next time I go bouldering, I'm gonna be pumped that they're not that hard! :P
@DJMcMayhem We have one of those at the gym I go to, actually! I can't even get past the first handholds. :/
Nice! The new gym in my town (that I don't go to) use to have them. I tried them once, and I think I got about 2/3rds up
They also had my all time favorite routes: A top-roping section that is entirely volumes with no other holds. They're usually 5.10-5.12 and ridiculously fun since you have to use completely different techniques than normal
I can barely do a 5.10a but that does sound fun.
That's pretty cool.
How do the top-rope and boulder routes at your gym compare? E.g. 5.10a and V4 are my limits at the moment.
You're right around my ability in that case. I have done a couple V5s before, but I can't do them usually. And I've done one 5.12 I think
@El'endiaStarman The gym I go to recently switched up their bouldering rating. They don't give a specific V-something anymore, they just classify them all as Rec/Int/Adv/Open. I'm not a fan of that switch
A climbing grade conversion chart like this mec.ca/en/explore/climbing-grade-conversion seems to imply that my gym's bouldering routes are graded harder than they really are or its top-rope routes are graded easier than they really are.
@DJMcMayhem I wouldn't be either. Less of a sense of progression and less indication of how hard routes really are.
Absolutely. They said it was so that people would try more things outside of what they think they can do, but I don't think actually worked the way they were expecting
@El'endiaStarman Ooh, another cool picture from the new gym:
It's like a 20 foot 45 degree angle.
Wow that's quite the endurance climb.
21:16
30 if you count the vertical part after it levels out the next floor up
The routes in this section have both V-something and 5.something ratings at the same time. Which is interesting
Huh, curious.
Pictures of my gym: goo.gl/vygTNh though routes are now indicated using rocks of the same color instead of tape.
Oh hey, there is a recent picture in there! I recognized some of the routes... :P
That's gorgeous
lol. Do you play twister on that thing?
Left hand on green, right foot on red?
21:46
Got a chuckle out of me, but no. Although there is a game that's kinda like a mix of Follow the Leader and Horse (for basketball). One person gets on the wall and makes one or two moves, then the next person repeats those and adds a couple more moves, and so on.
With that game, you can use any holds. I think you really only have to follow the hand holds chosen since it's hard to remember which rocks were foot holds, but I'm sure there are a wide variety of "house rules", so to speak.
 
1 hour later…
23:08
@DJMcMayhem interesting?

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