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12:00 AM
@Simply yeah the orginal post I made I missed some thing up in the problem
But the induction basis still holds true for both posts
just redid the problem
 
UGH, I hate bugs that are indestructible
:|
I'm still shaking from the experience
 
@Simply looked at the orginal problem it seems there is a series approach
 
possibly geometric series? :P
@chronolegends Hi
and I'll be taking my leave for now @Zophikel
 
see ya
 
12:20 AM
@SimplyBeautifulArt Sorry I have been away for a while, I've been preoccupied with things. :P
 
Hey @Deedlit
 
@Zophikel Hi!
which problem did you need help on?
 
@Deedlit it was checking basic induction
$S_{n+1}=\frac13(S_n+1)>\frac13(\frac12+1)=\frac12$
What would the P_n+1 case look like for that ^
 
it looks like that is the inductive step
you assume that S_n is bigger than 1/2, and that implies that S_{n+1} is bigger than 1/2
 
@Deedlit but how would do it for P_n+1
 
12:25 AM
that is P_{n+1}
 
ahh thanks
 
np
 
@Deedlit i'm initially asking since i'm checking to make sure I got this right
 
always a good idea
 
@Deedlit :O You are alive!
 
12:27 AM
Hi @SimplyBeautifulArt :)
I have to go over your old post to catch up
 
what old post?
PAIN? Or FAIL? Which version of PAIN?
:)
And I got some values put into the sheet
on Discord
 
oh nice
 
:D I'm fairly certain I go past Gamma level
and stuff...
and then Aarex said I might've hit psi[(Omega_2)^2]
so yeah... I'm a little worried
Do note: PAIN is going to change very much very soon
so yeah
 
it looks like FAIL reaches w^w^w^w
 
Aarex said w^w^w, but close enough?
 
12:33 AM
each d@e represents a separator in typical array notation, and the a'th separator reaches w^w^a in FGH
 
Um, what do you mean be a'th separator?
a@b@c@d?
Or a@b # c@d #...
 
and your d@e notation goes up to w^w (0@0 = w, (0@0)@0 = w^2, and so on)
 
mhm
Mhm? (0@0)@0?
 
just putting in parentheses for clarity
 
12:36 AM
a'th separator would be the a'th smallest different d@e in the case of FAIL
could you link me to where you describe PAIN?
 
It is in the notation channel sadly
I can try to explain it to you here real quick
 
okay
 
which option you choosing?
 
hmm, could you describe it here?
 
One moment then... and shall I start top to bottom?
 
12:45 AM
sure
 
Pa#0 = a+1
Pa#k+1 = P(P(...Pa#k...)#k)#k
so Pa#k = f[k](a)
Pa#0#k+1 = Pa#a#k
Pa#k+1#n = a nestings of Pa#k#n
etc. extending to Pa#b#c#d#e#... like FAIL
Pa#<[]>#1 = Pa#a#a#a#...#a with a+2 a's
Pa#<[]>#k+1 = Pa#a#a#...#a#<[]>#k
Then subtract one from the thing after the first # and iterate, etc.
you can then eventually reach things like Pa#<[]>#0#0#1 or even Pa#<[]>#<[]>#1
Still kinda like FAIL
Then we have <[1]> makes <[]>'s
<[k+1]> makes <[k]>'s
<[0#1]> makes <[a]>
<[k+1#1]> makes <[k#1]>
You get the idea.
Still like FAIL
Now we have <[<[]>]> makes <[a#a#a#...#a]>, not like FAIL
but the idea is same from here
We then have <[][]> makes <[<[...]>]> with a nestings
And <[][][]> makes <[][<[][<[][...]>]>]> with a nestings
etc.
Deconstruction always left to right
We then have <[]#[]> makes <[][][]...>
<<[]>> makes <[]#[]#[]#...>
etc.
this is almost current version of PAIN
 
it's a little confusing
is <[][]#[]> or <[]#[][]> possible?
 
yes
Um, I meant to also mention that in a chain of []'s or #'s, if the last thing is "empty" as in zero or just [], then remove it
erhm, your supposed to have <[]#[1]>, sorry
 
what about <[][1]> or <[1][]>?
 
<[1][]> = <[1]>
<[][1]> reduces to <[<[<[<[...]>]>]>]>
note that we only reduce when we expand.
 
1:00 AM
it would help to have general rules for how you reduce an arbitrary expression
 
For example, when looking at:
Pa#0#<[]>#4#5
I subtract one from the four and look left. I then make 'a' reduced versions of <[]> followed by one #a
:-( Don't think I have time to write those up right now
 
okay
it looks like [][] = epsilon_0, [][][] = epsilon_1, etc.
so <[]#[]> would be epsilon_omega
 
Yes, that was Aarex's conclusion I think
Either that or [][1] was e_1, I can't recall
:-)
 
what does <[]#[]#[]> reduce to>
 
<[]#[][][][][]....[][a]>
If left is empty, go right until you find non-empty or hit last entry followed by a #
Notice that <[]#[]#[][][][]> is still the same, since those extra things get put off to the side
 
1:05 AM
I'm confused when you say "if the last thing is "empty" as in zero or just [], remove it"
because <[]> is not the same as <[][]>
 
Oh, right! Huh, wait, lemme think for a moment
Ah! now I remember what it was. You remove it upon the "reduction" step
that is, when you make 'a' copies of the reduced form
Except for the #0. If that's at the end of something, you can remove it
If you have #<...> followed by nothing, remove that
but we don't remove [] without the reduction step
 
okay
so it looks like []#[]#[] is epsilon_{w^2}, []#[]#[]#[] is epsilon_{w^3} and so on
<<[]>> would be epsilon_{w^w}
 
O.O Tad bit difficult on the next step?
 
what's the next step?
 
<<<[]>>> of course
which translates down to <<[]#[]#[]#...>>
which translates down to...
well, I hope you get the idea
 
1:13 AM
not quite
let's start with <<[][]>>
 
Hm, wait, one moment
wait, carry on
 
what does <<[][]>> reduce to?
 
= <<[<[<[...]>]>]>>
So perhaps we need to start at <<[1]>>?
 
yeah, <<[1]>>
 
<<[1]>> reduces down to <<[]>#<[]>#...#<[]>#[a]>
 
1:17 AM
hmm, but chains of <[]> are lower than chains of []
 
No, they are higher
Just like the original <[]>, these <[]>'s produce chains of #[]'s
which produce nested [<[...]>]
which eventually reduce all the way down
 
eh?
the original <[]> reduces to a#a#a...#a
 
Yeah, so the analogy is that when <...> is inside another <...> or [], it reduces down like normal but with [a] instead
Hm, shoot, I missed something
When <...> is inside another <...> but not inside [], and has # directly to the right or somewhere on the left, then it reduces to [a]# instead of just a#
When <...> is outside, then it produces a#
When <...> is inside [], it behaves like it is outside
 
this notation is rather confusing, because you start with <[...]>, then go to [] and <> later
 
Hehe, yeah
XD I'm sorry, I'm planning on fixing it up a lot
Eh, well, yeah. Its pretty much my bedtime too
 
1:26 AM
okay, good night Simply :)
 
and good morning for you?
lol, I've never been in a history class that goes up to Obama
 
lol
I hope it's interesting
 
too brief
since... well, its not really history history
more like it happened a few years ago (or even two years ago)
perhaps you could discuss with Aarex about PAIN
 
on which channel did you talk about your notation on the discord?
 
Btw, good luck on your ordinal collapsing function
notation channel lol
and analysis channel
mostly Aarex in analysis channel
Heh, I finally sorta grasp inaccessible cardinals and then I hear "so yeah, @Deedlit's function makes this stuff look like peanuts"
X'D Wtf man
oh well, good night!
 
1:32 AM
good night :)
 
 
10 hours later…
11:27 AM
@Deedlit rise and shine for me
 
 
2 hours later…
1:36 PM
@Deedlit @user21820
 
1:53 PM
@SimplyBeautifulArt: I'm waiting patiently for Deedlit to give his verdict on your notation of pain. =P
 
2:05 PM
Star = anything not just a number or it is equal to zero
@user21820 perhaps you can check for holes in my notation if you aren't busy
 
Hello, everyone! (so i don't miss anyone).
 
Hm
Okay @amWhy
Hi
 
Currently around, hello @user21820, @SimplyBeautifulArt
@SimplyBeautifulArt ??? Anyway, didn't intend to interrupt...
 
2:22 PM
:D
 
@amWhy: Hello!
Yes I'm around for about 1 hour more and then it's sleep time! =)
How are you doing?
 
...
Hi @user21820
how you doing yourself?
(think this chat gonna get quiet due to exams and stuff)
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt: Yea. I'm doing fine.
But currently doing something else.
 
I've no exams though. All the best for yours!
 
2:34 PM
lol, yeah
 
 
3 hours later…
5:35 PM
@user21820 Thanks for the warm hello!
 
5:45 PM
@SimplyBeautifulArt perhaps, and likely, but it's also (tagged as) recreational, so it might, like always, provide a space to vent, relax,let your minds play. Any way ... those with any sort of exams on the horizon, Good Luck! But you don't really need "luck" on your side to get passed exams, (or course a little luck never hurts!). Trust yourself to get through them successfully, and try to have a little fun, while you're at it! (yes, @Simply, that means history too!)
 
 
2 hours later…
7:40 PM
@amWhy :P
 
7:54 PM
@SimplyBeautifulArt Hehehehehehehe! But seriously, I've no doubt that you know what you need to know for the history final. When you sit down to take it, think of it as a dialogue (like answering questions posted from anyone online (even though they're on paper)). At least that's always been a help to me. When I envision myself explaining something to another person, I'm better able to answer fluidly, reasonably, while at the same time a little less threatened.
 
 
2 hours later…
9:33 PM
Bringing this to the recent:

PAIN 3.0:

a = base if a is to the left of P.

aP = a+1

aP... = (... ((aP,,,)P,,,)P,,, ... )P,,, with 'a' nestings and ,,, = reduced(...)

If k is the left-most thing that is a number and greater than zero, then: reduced(n#...#p#k+1#...) = n#...#p'#p'#...#p'#a#p#k#..., with 'a' iteration of #p', where p' = reduced(p)

reduced(0) = a

In a line of #'s, if the last entry is not a number greater than zero, drop it

<{?-}...> is the notation nester.

If the ... is empty, then we have reduced(<{?-}>) = ???...?a with 'a' nestings of ?
@amWhy yeah
@Deedlit @user21820 PAIN 3.0 is here-ish
 
@Simply have you written notes on PAIN :)
 
somewhat yeah
If you want, you can try expanding, say, 2P1#1
It's quite a painful task
 
@Simply lol
 
Hi
PAIN 3.0 is now available
ish
I'm still working on it
 
9:44 PM
Good luck
Interestingly, I got a downvote on my question lol
7
Q: An interesting pattern in the general solution of the $n$-th order ODE: $\frac{d^n y}{dx^n}+\alpha x\frac{dy}{dx}+\beta y=0$.

projectilemotionContext: My friend (The same one who gave me this ODE) originally challenged me to obtain the general solution to this ODE: $$\frac{d^3 y}{dx^3}+\alpha x\frac{dy}{dx}+\beta y=0 \tag{1}$$ Where $\alpha,\beta \in \mathbb{R}$. I could not figure out any substitution without the use of power seri...

 
meh, no worries
7 upvotes is pretty confident stuff, and you put plenty of effort in yourself
 
Yep, it's just -2 reputation anyway
 
@projectilemotion no one has answered my ODE question yet :(
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt Thank you
 
9:46 PM
@Zophikel That's a shame to be honest
 
@projectilemotion it was well written too few errors :(
 
You put a lot of work into it
 
@projectilemotion But lately I've been fleshing out a little of Elementary Real Analysis gaps
 
@projectilemotion 8 upvotes, and one downvote gives you a net 78 rep. I'd say that's pretty good on mse. Though I agree that the downvoter should have explained him/herself!
 
@amWhy half on questions
 
9:49 PM
@amWhy I agree that the downvoter should have. Do you think it is worth asking as a comment?
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt oops, I forget. But still 38 rep points on a question is above average!
 
39*
and yes, it is good
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt Isn't it 38? (Without including the accept) [Downvote $\implies$ -2 rep]
 
no
never
ever
cuz I'm the boss and I said so
 
lol
You'd have to give me 1 rep then :)
 
9:53 PM
nah, I'll leave that up to the mods
 
Hmm, interesting, why was TheGreatDuck temporarily suspended? (If you know)
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt yes. Receiving a downvote is -2; giving a downvote on a question costs the downvoter nothing. "giving a downvote* on an answer costs 1 rep for the downvoter. But each and every downvote on a question or answer is -2 in rep for the questioner and/or answerer.
 
:P
I'm just messing around @amWhy
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt A question with 8 upvotes and one downvote gives rep = $8\times 5 - 2 = 38$
@SimplyBeautifulArt Silly silly you! :p
 
10:05 PM
:P
 
How would justify the notion of $\lim_{x \rightarrow \infty} sup(s_{x}) \, = \infty$
?
Seeing this withen a proof can't figure out how to justify this
 
We have \sup btw
and \inf
and \limsup and \liminf
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt ahh didn't know that thanks
 
The notation doesn't make much sense. You take a limit with $x$, but I see no $x$'s
 
@Simply let me edit it
@Simply here it is:
How would justify the notion of $\lim_{x \rightarrow \infty} sup(s_{x}) \, = \infty$
 
10:08 PM
@projectilemotion Interesting. I've been very cordial to him; my last encounter with him was when he asked my to vote to close a list of some of his questions; I simply told him I'd have to wait to do so, because he changes his mind very rapidly sometimes, but I would do so if he felt the same a couple of days later. But it was all in all a very cordial interaction.
 
The notation is still vague. Usually, I have $\sup_{n>x}$ or something like that
 
@Simply $S_{x}$ is a sequence in $R$
@Simply I thought about justifying it through some notion of convergence
 
@amWhy Oh, another interesting thing I noticed is one day I saw about 20 reopen reviews from just his questions
 
@Zophikel So what is $s_x$?
 
@Simply ahh there's the error i'll fix it
 
10:12 PM
Exactly: he asks users to help to close his posts, and then does a 180 by asking for folks to reopen them. I'm pointed out what you observed to the mods (in the past, not recently)
 
$\lim_{x \rightarrow \infty} sup(S_{x}) \, = \infty$
 
Well
All its saying is consider a sequence of sequences $S_x$
consider the sequence of supremums of the sequences $S_x$
and consider the limit as $x\to\infty$
 
@Simply would you consider it being equal to it's $\inf$
?
 
No
Consider $T_x=0\cup S_x$
Then $\lim_{x\to\infty}\inf(T_x)\le0$
But $\lim_{x\to\infty}\sup(T_x)=\infty$
 
ahh ok @Simply
 
10:19 PM
Say, how if you guys wanted to help fight global warming, what would you try to do?
If anyone has Discord and wants to join people who study and play with large numbers:
https://discord.gg/k4kWXdT
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt Just did xd
 
11:00 PM
@SimplyBeautifulArt and guys AND gals: Try to encourage meditation, to help calm people down, so there's no need for people to blow off hot steam! This world already has too many "hot-heads"!
 
11:24 PM
@amWhy a strange place you've stumbled upon
 
Are you talking about "discord.gg/k4kWXdT" I'm trying to figure it out! But my identical twin sister has hijacked my username to use elsewhere! :P
 
lmao
:P well good luck getting around
its a scary world
 
Who are you, there? I see Deedlit.
 
I'm the guy with the 10P....
P = PAIN notation = me
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt Hahahaha! It'll take me a little getting used to. I don't yet know what I can do with discord!
 
11:35 PM
they also have weird little customs
like responding "yes me" when someone says "no you"
and slowly counting up to 1 million one by one
@amWhy Btw, it seems they want to know who you are in the #general channel of the GS! server
 
How do I answer? I see the post "Who's amWhy" and "What's MSE" ... how do I let them know?
 
usually chat is at the bottom
and if you are on mobile, get the app
if you aren't on mobile, you can use the web version
 
I'm on the web version, I think?
 
Well, you should be able to say stuff
can you click my notification and chat to me?
 

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