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03:10
@ChrisHarris Which is really not a bad thing considering that misconceptions get fixed really quickly. (Also for someone who coined that term, I could not explain it as well as you did)
@Flaw I agree with you about the misconceptions. Also, it took me a good five minutes to figure out how to explain it.
But that was the concept I had in mind, which was rather incredible of you to have described so aptly
what are we talking about
?
"the sawa wall"
oh
yes
what does that say, flaw?
i cannot read it
03:17
It means "I am a cat"
"Wagahai" is a rather self-important way of referring to oneself. "dearu" is a copula that is used in formal situations.
The effect this seeks to create, is to perceive from the cat's point of view, that "I (the cat) am superior to humans".
mainly in writing, rather than formal speaking
i like it.
I'm reading the English translation of that book. And I'm so glad that I have Japanese to support my understanding. That nuance would have been lost in the translation.
which book?
03:20
"I am a cat" does not have that same self-important feeling
That chat message was a embedded URL
is a satirical novel written in 1905–1906 by Natsume Sōseki, about Japanese society during the Meiji Period; particularly, the uneasy mix of Western culture and Japanese traditions, and the aping of Western customs. Sōseki's original title, Wagahai wa neko de aru, uses very high register phrases more appropriate to a nobleman, conveying a grandiloquence and self-importance intended to sound ironic, since the speaker is a house cat. The book was first published in ten installments in the literary journal Hototogisu. At first, Sōseki intended only to write the short story that cons...
oh my god that's awesome
yeah i didnt notice the URL
or, i thought it was something else
anyway...i will read that someday, many years from now
We have a record-breaking number of people in this room haha
do we?
Almost I think
Troyen recorded 9 a couple of days ago
03:23
@Aerovistae yeah... for our capcha's, you should really have to type something in kanji
oh no it was for lang-8
preferably pre-1900s kanji >_>
but you're right
haha
That would drive a lot of people away lol
lol think so?
03:23
Or rather, it would filter out those who are really interested to continue.
Eh... that would limit us to a pure linguistics site
yay linguists!
the most exciting people there are.
we're up to 8 now btw
It's a new extreme sport, next to watching grass grow and watching paint dry, I bring to you watching JLU Chat increase in users.
should be in the olympics
we would win.
no contest.
03:37
I need to keep a dream log.
I vaguely remember having a question about Japanese that was important to understanding some major concept.
In my dream that question was such a pressing issue
Then breakfast wiped my memory of it.
Now I wonder if I really had a question I couldn't resolve or it was just a feeling created by the dream.
"Why is sushi so good??"
@Aerovistae Forget the katakana! If you've got the hiragana down pat, then read "The Tale of Genji"!
LMAO
on it.
03:41
actually... wasn't the original tale of genji largely done in katakana? or was that split before then?
I would say that you should continue with katakana before proceeding
@jkerian Men used katakana, and women used hiragana back then. Slight exaggeration, but more or less true.
I actually thought it was the other way around
Are you guys interested in Japanese gaes?
games*
(although... katakana are WAY easier to chisel into the side of a temple... so there is that)
@Shazer2 kinda sorta... but not much
03:42
7
Q: Were women unable to learn kanji during the Heian era?

Andrew GrimmI've read that The Tale of Genji, and similar Heian-era novels such as The Pillow Book, and The Gossamer Years were predominantly or exclusively hiragana, which is also called "women's writing" (女手). Was this because women weren't given the same level of education as men (as claimed by the Engli...

Well I play touhou (not horribly good at it though)
@Shazer2 go on
I play go... do you mean REAL japanese games? or video games?
03:43
@AndrewGrimm in The Tale of Genji, I remember such a strong emphasis on how many Chinese characters one knew...
youve read it?
Just I'm part of a Japanese gaming forum
@jkerian. What constitutes a "REAL" game?
I read it two years ago
03:44
@ChrisHarris How heterological! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterological
@Flaw certainly not cardboard imitations...he means games IN THE FLESH. the real thing.
I mean games that have been "japanese games" for at least a century or two
How about those that were simply made by Japanese?
@jkerian the real Japan, not the Japan that's been influenced by the red haired barbarians!
03:47
Wait bad analogy
did not intend it to sound like that lol
How do you remove a chat message? I still haven't figured it out
The little arrow by the left side of your message
can only do it for 2minutes after
hover over the message, the arrow appears
You can delete the message if the time has not exceeded a couple of minutes
the options are flag, (X), and permalink
03:48
because its been more than 2 minutes
try your most recent message]
no, I just posted a message silly
strange
i see edit, delete, flag for mod
I only have those three options
maybe im better than you
Are you trying your own message, @ChrisHarris?
03:49
yes
Hmm, weird
I should post a screen shot for meta
maybe you're not really chris harris.
ooh good point
SE knows this.
it foils you.
03:51
I can flag my own messages though
good, good. do that.
I can see "edit" "delete" and "flag for moderator"
I got it
I know why
03:53
under Arch linux, my system clock gets skewed
wtf
OH
weird
so, if I sync it after entering chat, then my posts look like 7 hrs difference
>_<
thanks2Windows partition
@ChrisHarris that doesn't happen to be exactly how far off GMT you are, does it?
Is 塗るもの a word? I know that 塗る is a word, and もの is a suffix meaning "[verb]-thing", but jisho.org doesn't accept 塗るもの itself.
03:55
@AndrewGrimm eow.alc.co.jp/…
@jkerian yes it is
For some reason, my clock is stuck on London even though I've set it with UTC, root changes do nothing lol
YOU ARE IN LONDON. ACCEPT THIS.
I suppose so..
but, I think it is due to Windows 7 for some reason, if I change it by 7 hours it will affect this partition
@Flaw, you're fluent?
@Aerovistae I only knew I knew の and 円 (and possibly the kanji symbol used in the words for entrance and exit points) during my first visit to Japan. I also knew the kanji for one, two and three from the computer game version of mahjong, but I didn't know I knew those kanji.
@AndrewGrimm you speak Japanese now?
04:03
@Shazer2 ちょっと.
aa,
ああ、そうです!
@AndrewGrimm do you work in an international company?
@ChrisHarris My first trip was for RubyKaigi 2011, a programming conference held in Japan.
I paid my own way though.
@AndrewGrimm That's awesome. Do you know any PHP?
04:05
I have purged PHP from my mind... it is cleaner for it
@Shazer2 mysql_real_escape is the only thing I remember.
@AndrewGrimm That sounds like a good reason to go :)
By my second trip, I had learnt more or less how to read the kana, though sometimes it was a crossword-puzzle approach. I also knew the kanji for 女, thanks to japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/4404/…女-toくノ一 . During the trip, I got the hang of the kanji for male, and for big and small. Enough kanji to go to the toilet and choose the correct flush!
I also picked up 山 and 火.
the correct flush?
are there multiple flushes in japan?
04:12
yes
flush down, flush up?
Half flush, full flush.
ooh, efficient.
@ChrisHarris travel.stackexchange.com/questions/5599/… is my most upvoted question on Travel Stack Exchange.
04:15
@AndrewGrimm That is awesome, but from the title I thought that it would be ahem the other style of toilet >_>
I think hippietrail actually asked that question
@Aerovistae Dual flush was invented by an オージー . Maybe Australia being a fairly dry continent played a role. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_flush_toilet
i just joined travel se to favorite that
that picture is scary
@jkerian My question's title was named after hippietrail's question, which is the most-upvoted question on that site.
Do mixed gender toilets still exist in Japan? (I hope sawa doesn't notice me asking this!)
04:23
okay everyone im done
been in here for hours while working on katakana
talk to you all later
see you :)
@Shazer2 Not really. I can't speak or listen.
Because of my learning approach I'm heavily skewed towards reading and writing.
@Flaw: same, I have no confidence in speaking or listening.
That's what I'm afraid of..
04:40
Anyone live in Japan and own a TV? sankei.jp.msn.com/entertainments/news/120727/…
I can't understand why NHK is allowed to do that.
What is it, @ChrisHarris?
NHK sued a hotel for owning TV sets without signing a contract to pay for NHK broadcasting fees.
Wow..
It's hard for me to understand how you can charge someone for services you don't use
It's a slightly odd "tax"
04:50
Hey, @jkerian, how come your name is italic?
When I was in Japan, I had someone knock on my door and start asking me about it
.oO(no idea)
I was living in a 1 room apartment... and rather provably didn't have a TV set
I want to write something on Lang-8, but I don't have enough knowledge to do so..
@jkerian I was told that if you even have a Japanese phone they will ask you about that...
I think it's a TV licence?
it's a "license"?? How is NHK different from other broadcasting stations?
04:57
NHK is a national public broadcasting station
Ah I see..in that case shouldn't the charge be included in taxes or on purchase of the TV?
Which probably means that TV licence works in the same way tax is used
Tax catches everyone, TV licence only applies to those who own a TV.
Purchase of a TV is a one-time affair. Licence has to be renewed.
wow
Okay, I think I'm understanding better now
for awhile, that really bugged me
I should check if my cable TV provider has NHK World
That could be useful for exposure to listening
@Flaw NHK World is in English only
NHK World Premium is an encrypted channel which has a selection of programs from NHK in Japanese
05:03
Oh? I thought it would be in Japanese...
but NHK World you can usually view free-to-air
BTW, you can watch NHK World for free online at www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld
@Flaw: If you want listening exposure, have you considered podcasts?
Hm, I have not tried using podcasts at all.
you can see the info between NWP and NW at www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/english/faq/faq2_1.html
I use netoraji (ladio.net)
some of the broadcasts can be a bit weird
Weird is subjective
05:06
but you can hear lots of dialects and stuff you don't hear normally
well weird as in girls trying to sound like high-pitched anime characters, people talking while doing English homework, ...
but if you want to hear people talking, it's really good practice
I can't handle 標準語 well enough, I think dialects will throw me into confusion haha
@Flaw: I'm going to Chicago to see my fiance's relatives..they speak kansai-ben >_<
I feel I'm going to have a hard time
 
3 hours later…
08:11
The BBC also does something similar en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
Whoever starred my mixed gender toilet question just ensured sawa will notice me asking!
See: Streisand effect
 
3 hours later…
11:22
@Chocolate I am confused by your comment. Do you mean that I am forced to pair 今年 with かわいい写真たて ?
Hey Flaw. :)
11:50
@Flaw「今年も有希がカードをくれただけだった。」って言うと、「去年も、今年も、プレゼントは、有希のカードだけ。他には、誰にも何ももらわなかった」ってことでし‌​ょう?なのに、「かわいい写真立てもうれしかったけれど、それより、黙ってプレゼントを用意してくれていたことに感激した。」っていうと、「あれ?おかしいなあ?何ももらわ‌​なかったんじゃないの?誰が写真立てをくれたの?」って思ったんです。
で、あの2つの文章の関係がよく分からなかったんです。

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