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Anonymous
00:09
@FelipeOliveira It is slightly different. In English we usually call the Japanese style ramen and the Korean style ramyun, but sometimes ramyeon.
Anonymous
@FelipeOliveira Well, people also write Tokyo for とうきょう, but they do that on purpose, not as a mistake.
Felipe Oliveira
Felipe Oliveira
I see! It’s funny cause unless the English speaking person can read hiragana, he might as well think he’s ordering Japanese ramen when in reality it is a little different
Interesting tho! Thank you!! @snailboat
 
16 hours later…
digory doo
digory doo
16:23
@FelipeOliveira, "oishi" with a single i has even made it into a company name: oishi.com.my
JACK
JACK
17:01
こんばんは
two i's
夢プチ does the term mean dream small?
Felipe Oliveira
Felipe Oliveira
17:32
@digorydoo I'm not sure if they think that foreginers can't hear the difference between 1 and 2 "i" or if the name with 2 "i"s was already taken or something
if it was my business, i'd try to go to the accurate pronunciation
Never heard about it @JACK
I think I head once in a song 「小さな夢」before
digory doo
digory doo
The company is from Malaysia, maybe they just got it wrong. ☺️
JACK
JACK
the word fits though
 
1 hour later…
Anonymous
18:42
@FelipeOliveira I suppose it could also be a name like 大石.
digory doo
digory doo
The u is sometimes not pronounced. For instance, "musuko" is pronounced as "musko". Is there a rule when the u is pronounced and when not? Do Japanese people even consistently pronounce "musuko" as "musko"?
d1pra95f92lrn3.cloudfront.net/audio/1955.mp3
Felipe Oliveira
Felipe Oliveira
18:57
user image
@snailboat is that like a Family name or something? Unfortunately I dont think it's the case since they even got the hiragana right, though
@digorydoo I don't remember the correct rule, but usually "su" sound has a very quick "u" to it, the same as "desu". Some people like to refeer to words like "Desu" as "Des" and words like "Musuko" as "Musko"
But I personally don't think it's correct, I can hear the "u" in both words, even though it's a quick one. Also, in fiction Works such as movies, animes, etc. Sometimes caracters say "No desu" with a very clear "u"
digory doo
digory doo
Ok.
Felipe Oliveira
Felipe Oliveira
but since i'm not the most experienced person in the matter and fiction is often decieving when it comes to grammar and pronunciation rules, you should wait for a second opinion before taking conclusions, I guess
Anonymous
19:20
@FelipeOliveira Well, I figured it was unlikely, but yeah, now that I've seen the hiragana I guess it's ruled out :-)
Anonymous
Anyway, I'm sure they spelled it oishi on purpose. It's not really wrong any more than Tokyo is wrong.
Anonymous
@FelipeOliveira In desu the /u/ can be entirely present, or it can be devoiced, or it can be reduced to coarticulation (only the effects on the adjacent consonant remains), or it can be entirely deleted. So there's a spectrum.
Anonymous
But the important thing is the rhythm, so if the /u/ is missing you need to make the /s/ longer.
digory doo
digory doo
The u in fuku can also be devoiced, as well as the i in ochite. d1pra95f92lrn3.cloudfront.net/audio/824428.mp3
Anonymous
@digorydoo In Kanto Japanese the second /u/ in musuko is typically devoiced. In other words, you pronounce the vowel, but it's whispered. If you place your fingers on your voice box, you can feel some vibration during the first /u/, but you won't hear it during the second /u/.
Anonymous
19:25
The Japanese spoken in some regions uses less devoicing.
Anonymous
Also, devoicing is optional.
digory doo
digory doo
I thought so, because jisho.org's voicing of ochire does not suppress the i. d1vjc5dkcd3yh2.cloudfront.net/audio/…
ochiru, I mean 🙂
Anonymous
@FelipeOliveira You can't devoice the /u/ in desu under some circumstances. For example, if you're asking a question without か and need rising intonation, you need to extend the vowel slightly and pronounce it fully, because you can't have intonation on a devoiced vowel.
Anonymous
@digorydoo You never devoice /i/ in ochiru because /r/ is voiced. It is typically devoiced in ochite because it's between two voiceless consonants.
digory doo
digory doo
Ok.
Did you mean the Kanto region of Japan when mentioning "Kanto Japanese"?
Felipe Oliveira
Felipe Oliveira
19:31
@snailboat I see!! that's very interesting!!! I gotta study those aspects more. Thank you as Always!
Anonymous
Yes. Learners are typically taught a variety called Standard Japanese, which is supposed to be based on the Japanese spoken in Tokyo.
digory doo
digory doo
I'm confused now. Tokyo is in Kanto according to Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kant%C5%8D_region#/media/…
Anonymous
Yes. In Kansai dialects, vowels aren't devoiced so much.
digory doo
digory doo
Ah, I get it.
Felipe Oliveira
Felipe Oliveira
19:54
dialects can get crazy, I did a quick read in the so called "Hakata Dialect" from Fukuoka and even simple sentences change a lot! Gave up already, I need to get proficiente in the standard japanese before going for dialects lol

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