Japanese Language

atlantiza

00:41

@jkerian I was planning on adding some sites to TV section tonight (just a heads up for you to un-downvote it at some point)

and re: almost no iOS apps - I'd love to add them if I had any experience with them! lol

jkerian

01:36

@atlantiza The issue is that all of the really good iOS apps are in other sections already

I could still add them, but I think I might add a summary link instead

snagging one of the daijirin or daijisen dictionaries and the kenkyuusha shindaijiten will put you back more than $200, but they are "best in class"

cypher

02:04

@jkerian are we including paid apps? I wasn't sure, so I left some android dictionaries out

atlantiza

I am working on TV now and have already added some stuff

atlantiza

02:21

it's kind of difficult figuring out specific info for sites that I can't access (japan only)... I know some of them, but I don't know the details

jkerian

02:43

I'm trying to avoid anything that is basically a thin layer over the EDICT file

@cypher do you know if any of the major dictionaries are available on droid?

atlantiza

hah, this seems like a nifty little "dictionary" - amzn.com/0804818908

cypher

@jkerian I use Eijiroid (play.google.com/store/apps/…) it's useful to have an offline version of Eijiro, though it's a bit unstable. There are a couple of others at play.google.com/store/apps/…, I don't know what they're like

atlantiza

I found a pricey android app version of 新和英中辞典第５版 (note 中 not 大). I also don't know how... official/legit it is play.google.com/store/apps/…

oh, here is one of 大 play.google.com/store/apps/…

silvermaple

13:40

great idea for the meta recourse thingy ^.^

@ジョン woops, i may have added that :(

I actually like jpod once you get past the shameless self-promotion...i signed up for the basic account and just went through and downloaded tonnes of podcasts for later

if you want to contest my entry it wont hurt my feelings :)

ジョン

14:11

@silvermaple haha, fair enough if you've had a positive experience with it. everyone has different learning styles and it may be helpful to people

(i suppose my dislike is more for the company, their overpricing and claims of unrealistic progress. but such personal feelings have no place on a community wiki ^^;)

silvermaple

I can't say you're wrong with the pricing and the promises...but I think that's a problem with the "language learning" industry as a whole

but I do like the banter that the podcasters (?) have in the upper intermediate series...it's almost better then the dialogues

if anyone knows some japanese podcasts that dont necissarily have to do with learning japanese, I think that would be awesome they could post it as well

i think listening to the banter is great practice for me

ジョン

14:43

that is true, the "natural" conversation is helpful listening practice. even though the American guy sets almost a perfect example for how-not-to-speak-Japanese

the only Japanese-language podcast i listen to is maximum the hormone's podcast from osaka fm

but it's very hard work to understand, for me at least

but that's what makes it such great practice ;)

oops, correct link

jkerian

15:10

@silvermaple: That link to jgram should probably be to jgram itself, not a blog about jgram

Also, perhaps it would be better in the JLPT section? meta.japanese.stackexchange.com/a/760/29

silvermaple

15:24

@jkerian, oh, yeah, you're right, @.@ woops. Also, I debated on what section to put it in...so if you think it's better there that would be a-okay

that's what i get for not paying attention

jkerian

Considering that the JLPT section is all websites so far, it would fit better there atm

silvermaple

okidoki

jkerian

I intend to add the sao matome, unicom and kanzen master book series to the JLPT section, but haven't gotten around to it yet

silvermaple

fixed

there's also the "beginners/intermediate/advanced dictionaries of japanese grammar

i don't think that's on there

jkerian

it is

I put it in the "Books" section, since although they're named "Dictionary", they're not actually what you expect from a dictionary

silvermaple

15:30

that's true

ah, i see it now :)

jkerian

hmm... I have the "Situational Functional Japanese" textbook 1 in front of me at the computer

I cannot think of a single positive or useful thing to say about it

silvermaple

ah, i need itunes to listen to that podcast...

i think

jkerian

yeah

silvermaple

ugh

has anyone ever used japanese for busy people?

i think i flipped through it once, didn't look like it was going to be helpful, but i see it everywehre

jkerian

You can probably get the podcasts here too: blog.fmosaka.net/gin-niku

(their homepage)

silvermaple

15:36

oh yeah, there it is

jkerian

I've seen it, but haven't actually used it

It's supposed to be fairly decent at the intermediate level

ジョン

16:38

i've flipped through it in a store. i think it's a shame about the romaji edition (no matter how busy you are, if you're serious about learning Japanese you should set 8 hours aside to learn kana). and it's another one of those books that has lots of loose ends that don't get tied up properly

that said, it seemed better than a lot of alternatives

silvermaple

17:20

it's true...learning a language is hard work, and there aren't really any shortcuts...it's going to take time and effort

jkerian

17:31

@ジョン I'm beginning to doubt the idea that you need to learn kanji and grammar at the same time though.

I'm growing suspicious that for most self-study learners... heisig + a non-kanji program for about 8 months might actually be much better

silvermaple

17:43

what do you mean jkerian? that's still learning kanji

jkerian

it is, but it's learning them in a way that's somewhat disconnected from the rest of your language study

IE, focus on the structure, tone, and grammar of the language first.

Then, after you have some knowledge of that, try to learn the written language (a bit like a child does)

The kanji you learn in an integrated course are too few to actually read anything in japanese. You have to supplement it anyway. So if you're going to be designing your own kanji-study program... why not do so from the start?

silvermaple

18:01

I see your point, but I also think that there are other bennifits of learning kanji along with your grammar

you get used to having to have to read kanji, learn when and where some kanji are used

I see it the more practice the better

are you saying that focusing on grammar is or should be primary, and kanji secondary?

in a language learning course?

or textbook

jkerian

depends on what you mean by course

I'm more talking about an approach for self-study

The reality is, the skills of speaking/listening and reading/writing in this language are so different as to be nearly seperable

silvermaple

18:20

ok, i see what you're saying

but i think idealy they would play off one another

you hear a word, then you learn how to write it, then you read the word and reconize it...kind of thing

jkerian

ideally... I'm not sure I've ever seen that work out in practice though

hmm... we'll chat about this later... gotta head out

ジョン

20:29

@jkerian i pretty much agree with you on kanji. although as you said the ideal order is to go through RTK before you even start learning Japanese (i know one guy who actually did that and it worked well for him)

the massive, massive bonus is that from that point on, every minute you spend learning grammar and vocab is reinforcing your knowledge and recallability (not a real word) of the characters

and as far as hira/katakana go...there's really no excuse

with Heisig's RTK(kana) you can learn them all in 8 hours. that's how long it took me when i did it before even studying Japanese, and my memorisation abilities are...relatively lacking

and about silvermaple's method working in practice - that's exactly how i learned a significant amount of the Japanese i know

ジョン

21:09

@atlantiza a quick check via VPN confirms that all the info you posted about hulu and niconicovideo is correct

atlantiza

thanks

I figure that even if most japanese learners aren't actually in japan to access these sites... some of them can find "other methods" so I might as well include those sites

or maybe someone in japan will actually find it useful, who knows

ジョン

no reason why not. i would have loved a resource like this/JLU in general when i was studying over there in 2008/9

atlantiza

hmm I don't remember exactly when, but I think around that time was when I had links to people streaming 5 or so japanese channels in decent quality almost 24/7 (not legally of course, but I miss those days!)

ジョン

21:44

how did they manage that?

atlantiza

not sure really... I didn't realize how much I should've appreciated it until later when I wanted to watch Japanese tv more often

ジョン

same here. i had a tv in my apartment which i switched on maybe 3 times while i was there

now i'm back in the uk i'd pay good money to watch japanese tv

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