neat! 黎明期

@snailboat Leon Lai!

today I came across the word "abseil" in a news article

how common is that word? I've never seen it before

@broccoliforest Yes, it is!

@snailboat Yeah, that's bizarre to me.

I'm struggling right now to think of how to express the idea of deserving something in Japanese

@ssb I'm thinking of words like もちろん, おかしくない

for example, a sentence like

"You deserve someone better"

hmm

"I deserve chocolate cheese cake"

hmmm indeed

@snailboat So, I think I got an example for my の-issue now: There's an anime airing currently called 「夜のヤッターマン」, which I've seen translated as "Yatterman Night". I would've translated it as "Yatterman of the Night".

Does that give any clues as to what knowledge exactly I lack here?

@3to5businessdays Zupfkuchen!

This distinction is called objective genitive vs. subjective genitive in classics

it's an issue in Greek and German as well

It also shows up in English for that matter

E.g., the book of the schoolboys

does it become possessive or does it mean a book full of schoolboys or something?

@virmaior Aaah, I think I can see that (German is my mothertongue).

I remember having to learn to think about it a bit more for German than for English

because I think you guys can use it more easily since you can just put the second noun in the Genitiv whereas we have to use "of" which already marks it as a little weird

Das Lästerung des Platon

(assuming I got the gender right for Plato -- and that he doesn't an -em there)

I think that would be such that we'd need context to know who is being lambasted in that "Lambasting of Plato"

@ssb just my 2 cents, but I think that although the english word "deserve" is used in both the sense of deserving a reward, and deserving someone better, it may be phrased entirely differently in Japanese. I.e. using "deserve" words may be unnatural

@ssb if I were to try to think of a phrase that conveys something similar to "deserve someone better" in chinese, the phrase 配不上 comes to mind

which roughly means the current person is not worthy of you, instead of saying you deserve someone better

maybe a phrase that conveys "you're worth more than that" would work?

@ssb no equivalent, but has several workarounds

見合う、釣り合う - be balanced with, match

当然～する（～て当然） - rightfully do

ふさわしい、似つかわしい - appropriate, fit

I know there are ways to kind of talk around it, but I had never really noticed that there was no way (that I knew of, at least) to express that specific idea

or trickiest one: もったいない - too good, beyond one deserves

but that's the linguistic difference, I think

English dare (as well as Chinese 敢) is one of notorious words untranslatable into Japanese...

dare in which usage?

as in "I dare you to eat that entire cake"?

most typically in "dare V"

like "he dared to go across the whole country alone"?

yes

merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dare

I learned 敢えて～する for that meaning

is it not right?

the auxV and intr usage

@ssb unfortunately it doesn't work at all...

敢えて is more like "bother to do" or "If one had to do"

like this one from alc

@ssb it sounds like "out of special consideration"

or to say, "intentionally"

hmm, interesting

it does seem that it's the closest counterpart, though, at least according to alc

nuances can be tricky

I dare say あえて for dare is just wrong, at least obsolete

icigoichie.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-279.html

the writer uses あえて in definition, but interestingly, in none of their examples

Well, for the ones on that site it doesn't seem to work (I dare you / How dare you / I dare say)

oh, they used one time :)

s.webry.info/sp/je.at.webry.info/201301/article_4.html

blog.asahipress.com/express_yourself/2007/06/dare_1d73.html

micottan.blogspot.jp/2014/07/dare-on-purpose.html

@ssb それは。。。

告られて、遠まわしに断ってる感じですか・・・

it could be that

or if like you have a boyfriend and I think he's a jerk and I want you to break up with him

I'd tell you "you deserve someone better"

「あなたには、私なんかより、もっとふさわしい人がいるわ・・・」

（くさっ！ドラマのセリフみたい）

黎明　レイメイ？リョウメイ

意味は知らない。

ごおｄにｇｈｔ

@Choko See, I can understand why one would make this kind of translation, but I think that it's fundamentally different from "you deserve someone better"

it's "there's someone better for you than me"

むずいな～

明日考えるううう

眠いな

@ssb but I feel hers is most natural one in that situation...

Oh, I'm not trying to say anything about it being right or wrong

or I'd say あなたにはもっといい人と一緒になってほしい

Or unnatural

Which are fine, but if you were to translate those back to English, you'd get "There's someone better for you" or "You should be with someone better"

which are, for all intents and purposes, entirely close enough

but for the sake of argument, still miss the exact nuance

I understand what you mean, but, it "includes" such meanings

Right, that's why I think in almost any situation it would be acceptable to translate that way

with adequate situation, it can "exactly" mean what you say in English