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1:42 AM
anyone ever notice
sometimes in the word しつれい, the し is actually pronounced "ish" instead of "shi"
 
Anonymous
Do you have a recording?
 
Anonymous
The first vowel is normally devoiced or dropped entirely I think (like sh'TSUree)
 
i've heard ish'tsuree on multiple occasions
 
Anonymous
Of course, I'm just learning, so there's lots of stuff I don't know :-)
 
1:49 AM
at least, that's what i think i heard
 
I'd like to try listening to it too (another learner here :), but I don't want to sign up with the site. :)
おはよう everyone!
 
Anonymous
Oh, you should, though! It's kind of like the YouTube of Japan :-)
 
Oh, so I take it that it's safe enough. :)
 
Anonymous
It's a very popular site.
 
signing up...
 
Anonymous
1:59 AM
Although it wouldn't let me skip to 8:53, which is mean :-)
 
Anonymous
This movie looks super cheesy
 
Oh, you mean we can't seek forward/backward!?
 
Anonymous
You can skip around if you let it load first
 
Oh, step 3 in the registration is filling a form!
> We hope you'll have a blast using Niconico!
:D
 
haha... it's kind of a cross between a bad B-movie and a blockbuster
 
2:05 AM
Oh, isn't that The Fifth Element?
 
yeah... i've seen it way too many times
 
It loads slooowly. :)
Hey, I like the way Bruce Willis sounds in Japanese!
 
oh yeah, i can't understand him very well but it sounds cool
 
2:21 AM
Hmm... My ears think he said "itsune". :D
But I learned that if I heard a funny "n" that I could think of it as a "d" too, it probably was a Japanese "r". :)
 
haha, yeah some people say it's a mixture of a d+r+l. i always thought that was a weird way of thinking about it though
i actually had somebody tell me it was (2r+2l+d)/5 and i was just like oooookay...
 
LOL
Thanks for the clip. Now I have another great source for learning Japanese!
 
yeah it's pretty fun to find a dub of a movie you're really familiar with
 
Anonymous
2:37 AM
@ogicu8abruok That's surprisingly precise and meaningless at the same time :-)
 
haha i know right?
 
Oh, I left it rerun from the start and this 2nd time I heard the sh sound before "itsune"! (still heard it as a funny "n", though :) This sh sound is very reduced, just a little hint of it.
 
sounded like ishtsurei to me
 
Hmm... I tried it once again and I couldn't hear sh this time. :(
@ogicu8abruok But I think I understand what you heard.
Listen to it carefully, I think I can understand it as "i[s]tsu[n]ee" too. (It's more like [s] than [ʃ] to me.)
 
Anonymous
2:59 AM
@ogicu8abruok I guess that would be metathesis? The /s/ and /i/ switching places?
 
Anonymous
I'm not sure what to make of that…
 
I just checked its spectrogram, and it's very interesting. :)
 
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. The Japanese "sh" is [ɕ]
 
Yes, but I'm not sure which ogicu8abruok's "sh" is, I assume it's an English one.
I can hear neither [ʃ] nor [ɕ] in that work.
I think it's [itsuree].
But it gives me some clues about Japanese /ts/ sound.
The fricative noise exists both before and after what is supposed to be the "t" in the [ts] sound in that word.
I think 1/3 of the noise comes before the [t], and 2/3 comes after.
 
3:15 AM
Does this person talk fast, like somewhat abnormally so...?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqa6Jve-A4k
 
no, very normal.
 
Hmmm, OK! Not that she sounded like the Japanese Busta Rhymes or anything, just seemed rushed / quick to me.

I will take better trained ears with ease though!
Compared to this announcer for example news.tbs.co.jp/newseye/tbs_newseye2235676.html
 
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. Whenever anyone says "sh" talking about Japanese, I assume they're talking about the Japanese "sh" sound, not the English one
 
Anonymous
But I don't know--I'll wait for someone else to transcribe that section :-)
 
Anonymous
Or someone familiar with the pronunciation he says he's heard a lot of times
 
Anonymous
3:25 AM
@DamkerngT. Say, did you turn that word into a WAV file? If so, can you share it here?
 
Yes, I can do that. Just a minute.
 
Anonymous
That would make it easier for other people to comment if they want to
 
Anonymous
Thank you!
 
いえいえ
 
4:18 AM
> 外は雨が降っていますか
> 外では雨が降っていますか
> 日本は毎日雨が降っています
> 日本では毎日雨が降っています
I think 外は is much more neutral than 外では.
I think it's hard to explain why particles like に and で are often dropped before は
And it's hard to explain why で can sometimes be inserted before は and も, too.
> 今は違う
> 今では違う
The more I learn, the more I'm against the idea that は is converted from がは.
I think では, には, は are often different from で, に and が.
 
4:36 AM
> この本は英語で書いた
> この本は英語で書かれた
Some people tell me この本は英語で書いた can only be used when the actor of 書く is the speaker himself.
この本は英語で書かれた can only be used when the actor of 書く is not the speaker.
But I think 英語で書いた本 can have the same meaning as 英語で書かれた本.
 
ssb
What about この本は英語で書いてある
 
Anyone, I think.
When the verb phrase contains meaning like be supposed to, する is usually used instead される. e.g.
> 「感」は「かん」と読む
So 私は「ヤン」という might mean "I am/my name supposed to be called Yang".
But, いう can be converted to 申す or おっしゃる
This is wired because if we follow the same explanation, 私は「ヤン」と申す will mean "everyone should respectfully call me Yang.”
Obviously, という here becomes something like である.
@ssb ている/てある might be more objective. For example, この本はうまく書けている, the book can be written by me or other people.
But I don't know if この本はうまく書かれている can be used when the book is written by me.
~の本では~と論じている, とは is definitely not written by me.
では is usually the actor of 論じる.
 
4:51 AM
難しいな
 
5:19 AM
@AustinFrench I'd say the announcer is actually talking faster than the girl.
 
 
4 hours later…
Tim
9:05 AM
@Choko: Thank you for your comment earlier today. That was very helpful, especially all those examples.
 
9:34 AM
@Tim いあいあ
@YangMuye よく見たらtsuzukiの左手が、右手の影と握手してる
 
10:31 AM
I recently heard the joke "Who does Polyphemus hate more than Odysseus? Nobody."
I wonder whether Odysseus' use of "Nobody" as his name would work if the Odyssey was translated into Japanese.
 
10:53 AM
@AndrewGrimm へへ・・・わかんないww
 
 
7 hours later…
Anonymous
5:37 PM
@AndrewGrimm Well, he actually called himself Οὖτις. Nobody is just a translation :-)
 
Anonymous
And it isn't always translated that way.
 
Anonymous
> 『キュクロープスよ、汝問ふ譽れのわが名いざ告げむ、
> 然らば汝約に因り、われに贈與を忘れざれ。
> 「誰も無し」とぞ我れ名のる、われの父母また一切の、
> 友悉く殘りなく「誰も無し。」とぞわが名曰ふ。』
> しか陳ずれば暴戻の心を吐きて彼は曰ふ、
> 『他の從者らを喰ひ盡し、我は汝を、「誰も無し」、
> 最後にとりて啖ふべし、これこそ我の贈與なれ。』
> ​
> ​ Cyclops! thou hast my noble name enquired,
> Which I will tell thee. Give me, in return,
> The promised boon, some hospitable pledge.
> My name is Outis, Outis I am call’d
> At home, abroad; wherever I am known.
> ​ So I; to whom he, savage, thus replied.
> Outis, when I have eaten all his friends,
> Shall be my last regale. Be that thy boon.
 

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