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00:00 - 06:0006:00 - 00:00

Anonymous
6:00 AM
Oops, I've been typing 研究者 when I meant to type 研究社 :-)
 
Anonymous
I didn't notice!
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
私も気づかんかった
 
Tim
Tim
@Chocolate It does not say in the app details, just the name but the s/w is up to date...
 
Anonymous
Hehe, I think sometimes I don't notice as long as the kanji sound the same :-)
 
Anonymous
I have the Progressive dictionary on my Mac but I don't use my Mac very much because it's so old
 
Anonymous
6:02 AM
Well, dictionaries plural--I think it has both E-J and J-E
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
It means now you're reading Japanese in a way that we native Japanese do
だって
日本人は We are aloud to... とか読むと
？？？ってなるもん
音より、意味を見るから
 
Tim
Tim
@Chocolate Found it - seems to be 2006 edition but I the criticisms could be anything (such as inclusion of ra-nuki kotoba which I don't think matters, or old fashioned buzz-words) . I would expect thought writing in kana and kanji would be correct (?)
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
第五版は2012年位みたいなので
古い方ですが・・・
その方がきっといい。。。多分・・・
 
Anonymous
Oh, my Mac won't turn on! :-( I went to check what version it had
 
Anonymous
Maybe I need a new one.
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
6:17 AM
ええええ
new one
って
 
Anonymous
My Mac is from 2006.
 
Anonymous
Much like Tim's dictionary. :-)
 
Anonymous
I guess it's eight years old now.
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
いやいや、まだまだ大丈夫・・・
 
Tim
Tim
I still have not found a 発音アクセント dictionary for my mac. The NHK CD that used to exist was only for windows. The following one has a CD but the shop told me it was not dictionary, just something to explain 発音アクセント：amazon.co.jp新明解日本語アクセント辞典-CD付き-金田一-春彦/dp/4385136718/ref=sr_1‌​_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1396333089&sr=8-4&keywords=日本語発音アクセント辞典
ah - the link did not work! try again
amazon.co.jp新明解日本語アクセント辞典-CD付き-金田一-春彦/dp/4385136718/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UT‌​F8&qid=1396333089&sr=8-4&keywords=日本語発音アクセント辞典
 
Anonymous
6:21 AM
I don't know if there is one for macs
 
Anonymous
@Chocolate I'm trying to get it to turn on! :-)
 
Tim
Tim
できた　（出来た？？？）
 
Anonymous
I haven't given up yet!
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
@snailboat これなんか、読めちゃうでしょ
 
Anonymous
Oh, I saw that in English, too!
 
Anonymous
6:22 AM
 
Anonymous
It's funny that it works in Japanese too :-)
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
読める・・・ｗｗ
でも、日本語だと、
母国語だと、間違えてるってことにすら気づかないで読めそうです
英語の方だと、「あ、綴りが違うな」って、すごく気になるけど
母国語だともう、気にならない
 
Anonymous
I noticed in Japanese after the first few words, but I can still read it--I think maybe it's easier in Japanese because the words have fewer characters, so there's less displacement
 
Anonymous
And because it's obvious where the little characters go
 
Anonymous
I had a harder time reading it than in English though
 
Anonymous
6:30 AM
Also I'm not sure why it says を twice at the end
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
@ssb ビデオもあった！
 
Anonymous
But in English, I can read the scrambled sentence several words at a time
 
Anonymous
I don't have to think about it at all
 
ssb
ssb
That letter jumbling only works on short words though
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
@snailboat おお！
twiceを！！
気付かなかった！
 
ssb
ssb
6:33 AM
Bblaaesl pryleas pnmrrioefg sllaimy aeoulltsby dvrseee clbrpmaaoe tteenmrat.
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
@ssb 読めない～
 
Tim
Tim
I slipped this into a comment on the double-negative question but if you have not seen it I think it is worth sharing.
By chance I came across double-negative of sorts yesterday: しかし、海外での仕事は半端ではありません。which I took from the context to mean "But our work overseas was not yet finished" although it seems to mean the opposite. Do think I understood it correctlyt?
 
ssb
ssb
"baseball players performing similarly absolutely deserve comparable treatment."
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
ぜんぜんわからんかったわ・・・
 
Anonymous
@ssb Nice counterexample! 私も読めなかった
 
Tim
Tim
6:36 AM
@Chocolate you are referring to the baseball aren't ?
 
ssb
ssb
although the jumbled "similarly" is spelled wrong.. scienceavenger.blogspot.jp/2007/12/…
You can try it yourself with any text, though!
 
Anonymous
@ssb Did you read the debunking/analysis on the Cambridge site?
 
Tim
Tim
@ssb good find
 
ssb
ssb
I'm pretty sure I saw it years ago
 
Anonymous
On that note, a good introduction to how we read Latin letters: microsoft.com/typography/ctfonts/WordRecognition.aspx
 
Tim
Tim
6:37 AM
me too
 
ssb
ssb
I know I have seen debunkings
 
Anonymous
(We don't read a word at a time)
 
ssb
ssb
But in Eigsnlh, I can read the sbmclread sectenne saevrel wrdos at a tmie I dno't have to tihnk aubot it at all
 
Anonymous
That one's easy!
 
ssb
ssb
- snailboat
 
Anonymous
6:38 AM
Yay! I've been quoted!
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
漢字が入ると無理
日能験力試本語は 日よ内国本おび 海外において 日語とし語母い本人をなを 対と象して 日認るしのでこ定、とてし験と本能的すを行試力目語うす測定を。
こんなになってしまった
 
Anonymous
日本語能力試験は日本国内および海外において日本語母語・・・なんとか・・・
 
Yang Muye
Yang Muye
In Chinese, it's a little different. Most Chinese words consists of two characters. It doesn't matter if the first and last letter of a word are in the right position. More over, we can switch the word positions to some extent.
「研表究明，汉字的序顺并不定一能影阅响读，比如当你看完这句话后，才发这现里的字全是都乱的。」 @Chocolate この中国語読めますか？
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
いあいあ…正しい中国語も読めないので・・・・ｗｗｗｗ
初心者なので！！
中国語って、漢字に意味があるもんねえ～
 
Anonymous
研究表明，汉字・・・
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
6:49 AM
中国語も、ピンインにして、入力したら・・・
分からなくなるかも！
 
Anonymous
研究表明，汉字的顺序
 
Anonymous
無理 hehehe
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
研究が、表明しました、中国語の順序は。。。
 
Yang Muye
Yang Muye
I can read the English version easily but I know the spelling is wrong. I almost can't read the ひらかな version.
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
え、そうなの
 
Yang Muye
Yang Muye
6:52 AM
ひらがな
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
ひがらな
 
ssb
ssb
奈良日が・・
雛柄
 
Yang Muye
Yang Muye
I think it's because I'm more familiar with 字漢. When it's wrtien in ひがらな, I have to read it out to know what it mean. But for words which are often written in kana, I have not problems and just recognize them by their shapes
 
Anonymous
I got my mac to turn on! :-)
 
Anonymous
Yippee!
 
Anonymous
6:56 AM
@ssb Hehe, 読める！
 
Anonymous
But it was a puzzle I had to solve :-)
 
ssb
ssb
羅飛が名。
what is 羅飛..
 
Yang Muye
Yang Muye
烏賊に読めない
烏賊にも
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
Ni de aahio shi senmhe? Ni xuiahn dnooaaiyunxi ma? Wo fiahceng xiuhan yniyue.
ピンインでやってみました！
 
ssb
ssb
wo bu hui
 
Yang Muye
Yang Muye
6:58 AM
@Chocolate 中国人なのに、読めない（泣）
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
ｗｗｗｗ
 
ssb
ssb
wo ai ni
difficult puzzle
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
@ssb まあ。。。
おほほ
 
ssb
ssb
やっへっへぇ～
i just noticed や looks like a little stick figure giraffe head
ややや　キリンパレード
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
きりんのあたま？
 
ssb
ssb
7:02 AM
yeah!
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
きんりあのたま
 
ssb
ssb
金利あの玉・・
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
どの玉・・・ｗｗ
 
ssb
ssb
あの靈
あの靈の玉
 
Anonymous
@ssb Hehe, I can read that one too! so proud
 
ssb
ssb
7:04 AM
i thought you might appreciate the 旧字体
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
霊とちょっと違うのね
 
Anonymous
Umm...
 
Anonymous
I do like the kanji 靈 but I don't know what you were writing there
 
Anonymous
I need easier puzzles ;-)
 
ssb
ssb
たまに靈の玉がたまたまたまる
よね
 
Anonymous
7:07 AM
Ahh!
 
Anonymous
My poor brain! ;-)
 
Anonymous
This year's April Fool's is better than last year's. Last year's was that fake chat pop-up I think
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
そうそう！あの「エキスパート」って人
今年は来ないのねえ・・・ｗｗ
 
ssb
ssb
またまたトマトの玉もまともにためらったとともに・・
 
Anonymous
Are those 早口言葉?
 
ssb
ssb
7:10 AM
of my own invention
and therefore probably nonsensical
 
Anonymous
New Oxford American Dictionary
Oxford American Writer's Thesaurus
Shogakukan Daijisen
Shogakukan Progressive English-Japanese Japanese-English Dictionary
Shogakukan Ruigo Reikai Jiten
 
Anonymous
Those are the dictionaries that came with my mac!
 
Anonymous
I think all of those are available on the internet
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
チャットルームに４人、と思ったら
 
Anonymous
@Chocolate Oh, but this version online is the 3rd edition, it says: kotobank.jp/jeword/…
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
7:24 AM
５人だった。。。
 
Anonymous
@Chocolate Oh, Darius is all faded so he's invisible :-)
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
わ、第３版
 
Anonymous
Oh, I never know how to say stuff in Japanese. I wanted to say his icon faded out so far that it disappeared... 「消えるほど薄くなった」
 
Anonymous
But I'm getting better at understanding stuff at least :-)
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
消えそうなくらい薄い！とか
薄くてもう消えそう！とか
薄すぎてもう見えない！とか
 
Anonymous
7:34 AM
Oh! I'm going to write those down :-)
 
Anonymous
I couldn't think of how to put that sort of sentence together
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
薄すぎて、いるかいないかわかんない！とか
（なんか、面白く言いたくなってしまう）
 
Anonymous
 
Anonymous
> you betcha
> spoken
> a way of writing "you bet you" that shows how it sounds in informal conversation, used for saying "yes" in an enthusiastic way
 
Anonymous
But I don't think anyone ever says "you bet you"
 
ssb
ssb
7:50 AM
you bet you!
my guess is it came from "You bet you are/do/whatever!"
 
Anonymous
I bet it's from "You bet your [something]"
 
ssb
ssb
the world may never know
 
Anonymous
Ah, the OED says betcha/betcher is from bet you / bet your (life)
 
ssb
ssb
still not quite the "aha!" I hoped for though
 
Anonymous
> In various (orig. U.S.) slang asseverative phrases meaning: to stake everything or all one's resources (upon the truth of an assertion). 1852 San Francisco Sun. Dispatch 18 Jan. 1/5 He's around when there's money in the pipe—bet your life on t-h-a-t.
 
Anonymous
7:56 AM
> [...] Also in corrupt forms (I, you, etc.) betcha, betcher, representing colloq. pronunciation of bet you or your (life). 1922 ‘R. Crompton’ Just—William ix. 174 You betcher life! 1936 Wodehouse Laughing Gas v. 61 ‘You're home-sick, what?’ ‘You betcher.’
 
ssb
ssb
'You betcher' sounds like a particularly dirty insult
 
Anonymous
No you betcher!
 
ssb
ssb
you betcher mother with that mouth!?
 
Anonymous
Well, I never!
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
8:25 AM
子にちワ！
 
ssb
ssb
子に痴話？
 
Anonymous
@hippietrail 「子んにちワ」！ ;-)
 
Anonymous
Although it's kind of 1:30 AM here
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
it's like a 子猫
 
Anonymous
こねこちは！
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
8:30 AM
plus it makes my accent more obvious in text
 
Anonymous
If you want to express your inner 外人ness, just type everything in katakana!
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
i'm a foreigner not a robot d-:
it's not far off becoming 子んバンわ o'clock here though
 
Anonymous
Haha, it's true, robots know how to speak katakana, too.
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
i wonder if Spock and Data speak in katakana
 
Anonymous
Actually, I played one video game where a robot used kanji like normal, but for kana they swapped hiragana and katakana
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
8:34 AM
one being a robotlike person and the other being a personlike robot
maybe it was a prewar robot
or maybe a future robot from after the next major language reform
 
Anonymous
I've mostly seen foreigners speaking in katakana in manga when the mangaka wanted to emphasize ... well, something, I guess
 
Anonymous
Their differentness?
 
Anonymous
I'm not 100% certain what it's meant to convey other than that they talk funny
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
i'm not a very manga person so i did it my way
 
Anonymous
Yay!
 
Anonymous
8:40 AM
@hippietrail Oh, and, um, I wasn't seriously trying to make a recommendation. :-)
 
Anonymous
I was just being silly.
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
i can be silly without trying, sometimes
but not as silly as google translate who thinks お釣り means "fishing".
 
Anonymous
8:53 AM
There might be a fun question in that, tracing the meaning from 釣る　→　釣り合う　→　釣り銭　→　お釣り, or however it actually progressed
 
Anonymous
Oh!
 
Anonymous
 
Anonymous
Give me fishing!
 
hippietrail
hippietrail
i've been translating my supermarket receipt today for fun and profit (-:
sadly i couldn't read that link
 
ssb
ssb
9:22 AM
I'm sorry to my fishing question..
 
 
3 hours later…
Tim
Tim
12:31 PM
@ssb You have to imagine a 12 year old English school boy talking in slightly sloppy English 80-90 years ago. (Dunno if "Just William" is still read in the US but funnily enough it still sounds current when read out loud today.)
 
ssb
ssb
you betta watch where ya puttin ya nose, wise guy, else i give ya a knuckle sandwich!
 
Tim
Tim
sanwich?
nakul sanwich?
 
ssb
ssb
why you!
i oughta pop you one right in the kisser
i'll show you what for!
 
Tim
Tim
1:01 PM
楽しみに！
 
 
1 hour later…
Chris
Chris
2:01 PM
Trying to read a book....mostly just to get used to seeing kana out side of the grid. I did come across a kanji へ over ウ. Just a shot in the dark but is this pronouced like it looks?
 
ssb
ssb
今？
 
Chocolate
Chocolate
2:22 PM
今　← ヘ over う
なるほど
 
 
4 hours later…
Earthliŋ
Earthliŋ
6:47 PM
@snailboat Why did you delete your answer on the question about the pronunciation of みずうみ?
 
Anonymous
@Earthliŋ Well, all three of you are better at Japanese than me and are discussing a point that doesn't make sense to me, so I can't really edit my answer but I don't want to mislead people
 
Anonymous
So I thought I'd let someone else write an answer that describes the way the pitch accent and long vowel are related
 
Yang Muye
Yang Muye
8:20 PM
Whether two same vowels are equal to a long vowel is debatable. If i recall correctly, the NHK dictionary tried to evade this question. I think when they are treated as a long vowel, it's common to shift the accent. Two other people has confirmed that みずうみ is more like to be pronounced as みずうみ{LHLL}, while NHK dictionary gives that standard みずうみ{LHHL}.
The accent shift is allowed, which means みずうみ is very likely to be pronounced and perceived as みずーみ. In contrast, I think it's not common to shift the accent in phrases like (魚の)いるうみ{HHHL}, but I'm not sure.
 
 
2 hours later…
Earthliŋ
Earthliŋ
10:05 PM
@snailboat "A thinking that B is better at Japanese than A" is for the most part a reflexive property... In any case, the question didn't ask for pitch information and I thought it answered the question perfectly.
On this topic, what are undelete votes for? I guess posts deleted by the owner shouldn't be able to be undeleted by other users...
 
Anonymous
@Earthliŋ You know, I'm not entirely clear on the whole undelete vote thing.
 
Anonymous
When I asked SE people about undeleting posts, they said that generally people shouldn't undelete other people's self-deleted answers
 
Anonymous
So for example when Tokyo Nagoya deleted posts, and some users voted to undelete, that was considered inappropriate, so I re-deleted them
 
Anonymous
But in some other cases I think it is appropriate, like if a user tries to self-delete every answer they've got as part of a rage-quit
 
Anonymous
But the guidelines don't seem to be spelled out anywhere.
 
Anonymous
10:18 PM
This is the closest thing I've found:
 
Anonymous
19
Q: What are valid reasons to vote to undelete posts deleted by their owners?

BoltClock's a UnicornSometimes, I encounter genuinely interesting questions that get deleted (because the OP figured it out right after posting?), and answers that get deleted out of doubt or to be reposted as comments but turn out to be the correct answers. Since it takes more than one community vote to undelete po...

discussion deleted-questions 10k-tools deleted-answers
 
Anonymous
@Earthliŋ I edited my answer
 
Yang Muye
Yang Muye
In website like WordReference, the copyright of all posts are held by the site. So it's not possible for one to delete his own post after a period of time. This policy is sometimes annoying, but I think at least it keeps important records.
 
Anonymous
@YangMuye All posts here are licensed under Creative Commons, Attributed Required
 
Yang Muye
Yang Muye
I personally think author should be able to flag his inappropriate post, but people can still get access to the original versions.
 
Anonymous
10:28 PM
You can delete your own post, but if you do a number of deletions in bad faith (deleting all your old answers because you've decided not to participate anymore, for example), then moderators are within their rights to restore the posts
 
Anonymous
However, you can always have your name removed from them if you really want to.
 
Anonymous
In general I think we want to respect the intent of the authors outside of extreme circumstances
 
Anonymous
So even though it's possible for users to edit anyone's posts, those edits shouldn't substantially change what the author has to say. They're useful for things like fixing broken links, or fixing small formatting problems, etc.
 
Anonymous
Since everything is Creative Commons, however, it's possible to build on other people's comments and answers, including deleted answers, as long as you give attribution
 
Anonymous
And once you have a certain amount of reputation, you can see deleted posts
 
Yang Muye
Yang Muye
10:32 PM
@snailboat That would be reasonable.
 
Anonymous
動詞の過去形
過去形の動詞
 
Anonymous
It seems funny that these should have the same meaning
 
Yang Muye
Yang Muye
I don't think so, though.
 
Anonymous
I expected 動詞の過去形 but I saw the other in a question just now, so I searched to find examples
 
Anonymous
How do you think they differ?
 
Yang Muye
Yang Muye
10:39 PM
I think 動詞の過去形 is more common.
 
Anonymous
Me too.
 
Anonymous
So I wanted to edit the question to say that instead
 
Anonymous
But I thought I would look first to see if it's legitimate usage
 
Anonymous
Unfortunately, Google counts aren't reliable, though
 
Anonymous
10:50 PM
I guess it's like the difference between "a past tense verb" and "a verb's past tense form"
 
Yang Muye
Yang Muye
I think both 動詞 and 過去形 are forms of words, which makes the two phrases interchangeable.
ファンクションメソッドでは過去形の動詞で始まる動詞フレーズを過去形動詞フレーズと呼びます。 I think 動詞フレーズ is also a form, but 動詞過去形フレーズ or 動詞フレーズ過去形 doesn't sound good. I don't know why.
 
Anonymous
I think in this context 詞 is part of speech (品詞), and 形 is inflectional form (活用形)
 
Anonymous
Although I guess 詞 means something like "word" here
 
Anonymous
So maybe I shouldn't explain it exactly that way
 
Anonymous
But I think 動詞 is not exactly a form of a word
 
Yang Muye
Yang Muye
11:07 PM
I think maybe it's more or less related to the attribute of 形, which is somewhat predicative. So 過去形の動詞 is more like 過去[形の]動詞, 形 connects the two nouns 過去 and 動詞. Similarly, 動詞スルは過去形ではない is grammatical. In English, you say "what color is it”, color is predicative, too.
長い髪の女性
Oh, I still can't explain why 過去形の動詞 and 動詞の過去形 can mean the same thing.
 
Yang Muye
Yang Muye
11:25 PM
水着姿の彼女を見るため　と　彼女の水着姿を見るため　と　どう違うのかな
 
ssb
ssb
11:41 PM
I think it changes the emphasis of what you're looking at
 
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