Moderation

Feeds

06:45

Pandya has unfrozen this room.

2

Q: Can moderators refund bounties, change bounty notices etc?

If there's a typo in the bounty notice and I want to correct it or I want to add more details to the notice besides the standard template, what's the correct procedure do it? Does one of the mods have to remove the bounty notice & refund the points, then user needs to start a new bounty? EDIT: ...

13

Q: Please welcome your new pro tem moderators

For those who don't know me, I'm Pops, one of the Community Managers at Stack Exchange. I'm here with news of a big change today. Two of your existing moderators, Ankit Sharma and Mr. Alien, have asked to step down. There are many passionate users on this site, and as a result, it's been difficu...

discussion featured moderators announcements

The Destroyer

@sv. Hi! I have observed the some "community specific rules, ie. rules which are specific to Hinduism SE site " are ambiguous. Mods have different set of rules. Few community answers here say differently. I think first we should sort out these issues. Community rules are to be framed by whole community not by Mods or by specific person. I don't say all rules specific to dealing with unsourced answers are wrong. But there are some ambiguities.

For example, Shog answer here says, not to delete answers with no scriptures. But i'm not sure how many active members of this community agree with this. I personally feel we should delete answers with no scriptures. You and other active members can say your views on these issues.

This is the the shog answer which i'm referring.

11

A: Can we enforce quotations of scripture references?

A Back It Up! rule is a good idea for any subjective topic (which is to say, any topic where the asker or other readers cannot personally verify answers on their own): Back It Up! means that your answers must be based on either: Something that happened to you personally Something y...

@sv. Similarly, there are many rules which need to "Specific and clear". Based on all your suggestions, we may need to revise some rules on meta answers.

Pandya

07:05

Note that we do have similar proposal/discussion on meta:

5

A: Let's delete all old answers from early days of the site that lack any references at all

I don't think all the unsourced answer should be deleted at this time. However if a question contains at least one sourced/scripture based answer, then all the other unsourced answers of that question should be deleted. Example: There is a question: Why is Lord Vishnu called Aravamudhan? I h...

The Destroyer

@sv. Also, we need to come to one stand on "how to handle answers of active users which don't cite references " and we will do that by discussing everyone views.

Mr_Green

09:33

@TheDestroyer @Pandya Congrats guys.

I think I am late to the party

oh my message brought the revolution.. great!!

Pandya

11:37

I think personal experience may not be suitable for this site. — Pandya ♦ 16 secs ago

The Destroyer

@Pandya Yes.

Btw, i will give the list of issues everyone should present their views.

Topic 1: Whole community should come to one stand on dealing with anwers that don't have references. we can subcategorize this into three sections.
1) "Answers of new users with no references"
2) "Answers of active users (or high rep) with no references" and
3) "Answers of old users (who are not so active) with no references".

Pandya

@TheDestroyer I'm pining to the relevant users for drawing attention to this topic. ok?

The Destroyer

@Pandya ok.

Pandya

@sv. @Rickross @iammilind @moonstar2001 We're discussing on how answer posts without references should be handled. Get involved to provide your views and suggestions on it.

The Destroyer

Let's discuss the first category, which is "Answers of new users (including unregistered users) with no references". Moderators thumb rule for this is,
1. If a new user doesn't cite references, mods leave comments under their post and wait for some time.
2. If a user still doesn't cite any reference after some days,Mods convert it to comment if it's short answer or delete it if it is long answer.
3. Mods will undelete answer, if user cites the references, leaving comment (reason why they undeleted it) under the answer.

I request opinions of all active members on this community for above "rule". If we get consensus, we can move to second category, else we can revise or update the above rule based on objectiveness and majority.

Also, important thing we should discuss is about Valid references.

I think most people agree with Be Happy answer.

18

A: Guidelines for new users answering questions

Few guidelines for answering questions about Hinduism: An answer is most acceptable and authentic when it is based upon Vedic scriptures and gives proper reference to the source. Some of the credible scriptures are as below: Vedas and the primary Upanishads Smrutis (Bhagavd Gita, Manu Smu...

Pandya

11:59

Overview of What kind of references are valid in answers?

12

A: What kind of references are valid in answers? Are modern works allowed?

From lowest quality to highest quality of references (according to me). Wrong reference [for example, misquoting] These should be avoided as they could be misleading. Missing reference (for example, a link that doesn't work] These are to be avoided, if the answer contains only the link. Extre...

The Destroyer

Please also let us know your views on above two answers.

Also, provide your views on Back it up rule.

11

A: Can we enforce quotations of scripture references?

A Back It Up! rule is a good idea for any subjective topic (which is to say, any topic where the asker or other readers cannot personally verify answers on their own): Back It Up! means that your answers must be based on either: Something that happened to you personally Something y...

I personally feel, "Something that happened to you personally" is not good for Hinduism due to nature of Hinduism. Please do provide your views on same. Here's where i feel we should frame our own rules. Rules like "deleting Chatty comments" and "Not deleting Wrong answers" can be inherited from parent meta, but I think for references, we should have our rules.

Rickross

14:38

@Pandya @TheDestroyer Congrats ! both of u..

The Destroyer

14:50

@Rickross Thanks!

@Rickross Please provide your views on above mentioned things so that we can revise or update rules if needed.

sv.

15:22

@TheDestroyer @Pandya Thanks for inviting to chat to go over the issues.

1) what do you think about this meta post ... seems like an easy fix?

5

Q: Can we change the "help center" link appearing in off-topic reason to on-topic page?

Problem: One of our current off-topic reasons reads as: This question does not appear to be about Hindu religion, within the scope defined in the help center. The problem with the above help text is clicking on the link takes newbie users to the existing help center page with so many quest...

discussion support feature-request help-center

Have you guys noticed I mentioned it in my answer?

-5

A: A call to action: what do you want to see here?

A call to action: what do you want to see here? Here's my list: Undelete the answer mentioned in this meta post or let a moderator explain properly through an answer why the answer was deleted. I think the mods, not random users, owe an explanation to the user. I've explained in this answe...

The Destroyer

@sv. Yes. We saw it. We will solve each problem from start.

sv.

@TheDestroyer The reason I mentioned it first is because it's an easy fix :)

Other issues could take 1-2 years from what I'm seeing :P

The Destroyer

@sv. haha. I don't think so. May be a week if everyone gives their views.

sv.

@Pandya To remind you of your comment from before you became a mod:

I agree with moderator should consider to reverse a bad decision and should answer the questions you've mentioned. — Pandya ♦ Dec 16 '16 at 6:23

So counting on you @Pandya and @TheDestroyer to reverse @KS decision .. if not .. write a proper answer to moonstar's meta post why it should not be deleted. You do not need my opinion in this, I've already explained beyond any doubt why moonstar's answer need to be reinstated.

The Destroyer

@sv. For that we all need to come to one stand on my second category. If we come to one stand, it will be automatically solved.

sv.

15:29

5

A: What should we do about opinion based answers?

I agree with @Mr.Alien that We cannot delete the answers unless they are surely wrong or makes no sense. Also, from @BeHappy's answer to Guidelines for new users answering questions which received 17 upvotes as of today: 3. If no such text references are present, then users can provide ans...

@TheDestroyer One stand -- that's not going to happen here. People will always disagree. Agreed upon rules need to be upheld. Not revisited.

Quoting from BeHappy's answer:

"3. If no such text references are present, then users can provide answers which they have learned or heard about the culture from parents and others."

The Destroyer

@sv. Currently some rules are ambiguous. They will lead to more problems.

sv.

There is no ambiguity in that statement, if you mods do not agree to that. Well, you lost your chance to raise it when 18 people upvoted it.

Rules are clear! It's the mods who don't understand it well!

The Destroyer

@sv. How are they clear? Shog recommends not not delete answer without scriptural reference. But we also agree to delete them. That's why we wanted to resolve them separately in categories.

sv.

@TheDestroyer Through voting, if rules are decided, mods don't get to call those rules "old", "oudated" etc. conveniently.

@TheDestroyer Shog9 said ask for references. But not all answers require references.

@TheDestroyer moonstar's answer doesn't require references. so KS is wrong in asking for references then deleting the answer!

The Destroyer

@sv. Forget all those. Gatam Gataha. We will revise rules now.

sv.

15:35

Anyway, I thought you guys fix this easy problem first ...

5

Q: Can we change the "help center" link appearing in off-topic reason to on-topic page?

Problem: One of our current off-topic reasons reads as: This question does not appear to be about Hindu religion, within the scope defined in the help center. The problem with the above help text is clicking on the link takes newbie users to the existing help center page with so many quest...

discussion support feature-request help-center

@TheDestroyer No .. I would not allow my answer to be deleted unreasonably. This is a user rights issue and application of rules correctly.

The Destroyer

@sv. Yes. But for references We need to decide it. Shogs can't decide it Hinduism. you know Sastra Pramana is of highest one in Hinduism. This is where we need opinions of all users.

sv.

@TheDestroyer If you don't understand the rules, you guys should NOT delete the answer first. Take voting on meta, then delete it. I strongly oppose 'shoot first, ask questions later.'

The Destroyer

@sv. This comes in my second category. I will take opinion of other users. You oppose "Shoot first and Ask later." i agree. That's the reason we are asking others views. Mods are ready to update their rules. Mods can't decide all rules. It's community as whole who should frame rules.

sv.

@TheDestroyer @Pandya Would you dare to delete this answer?

6

A: Why didn't Bhishma Pitamaha stop Kamsa?

There's no reason to believe that Bhishma would try to stop Kamsa. You can ask the same question about a million different people: why didn't Bhishma kill Kamsa, Shishupala, Jarasandha, Narakasura, etc. And why didn't Drupada kill any of them, and why didn't the Pandavas kill any of them (other ...

ZERO REFERENCES!

Now I bet you will not dare to delete it!

Rickross

@TheDestroyer Which rules?Can u be more specific?

Keshav Srinivasan

15:42

@sv. If we as a community decide that we should delete all the old answers that don't cite sources, I would be more than happy to delete that answer of mine.

The Destroyer

@sv. Please try to understand us. We don't know majority of opinion on "Answers of active users with no references". How can we decide now? Moderators thumb rule is "delete first and then flag for undelete". It's majority who has to decide.

@sv. Please let's all solve issues categorically. This will be free from confusion.

sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan Before that we need to decide what exactly is an "old answer" :P Can we fix a date to when the 'cite sources' went into effect?

Mr_Green

Guys, create a google drive doc, where everyone can collaborate on finalising the rules

The Destroyer

@Rickross We are asking for opinions of all users in moderating rules, such as when to delete an answer, how to handle answers with no references and all such rules.

sv.

@TheDestroyer BeHappy's answer is majority opinion - 18 votes, case closed!

The Destroyer

15:45

@sv. It was written long ago. We don't who those 18 users were. Why not again revise rules?

Keshav Srinivasan

@sv. Yes, but it was written in the site's early days and doesn't reflect current policy. So we need to revise things.

sv.

@all I'm all for revising rules .. before writing new rules, old rules need to be upheld. Mods cannot be executing rules from secret part of their brains!

Mr_Green

where are we finalising the rules now?

Keshav Srinivasan

@sv. Well, we could do that, or we could just decide to delete all of them regardless of age as you suggested.

Bhargav Rao

@sv. Have you flagged it as such?

Rickross

15:48

@TheDestroyer Ok..I don't think answers without ref shd be allowed now..so we can ask and then delete them..But i am against very strict rules also..

sv.

@BhargavRao Just flagged it now.

The Destroyer

@BhargavRao @sv. Please don't raise any flags now or ask for without revising rules.

Keshav Srinivasan

@sv. Look, we intend to continue to enforce the informal rules we have been enforcing for the past three years until the community comes up with a new set of rules.

sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan I don't agree to these "informal rules" part. You need to write it down. Sourcing from different answers. This is what @moonstar would call "arbitrary rules" - I'm completely with her on that!

Mr_Green

@TheDestroyer flags can be false too.. lets not dwell on that. Are we finalising things anywhere?

Rickross

15:50

Sorry i meant shd not be..:D

The Destroyer

4 hours ago, by The Destroyer

Topic 1: Whole community should come to one stand on dealing with anwers that don't have references. we can subcategorize this into three sections.
1) "Answers of new users with no references"
2) "Answers of active users (or high rep) with no references" and
3) "Answers of old users (who are not so active) with no references".

2

4 hours ago, by The Destroyer

Let's discuss the first category, which is "Answers of new users (including unregistered users) with no references". Moderators thumb rule for this is,
1. If a new user doesn't cite references, mods leave comments under their post and wait for some time.
2. If a user still doesn't cite any reference after some days,Mods convert it to comment if it's short answer or delete it if it is long answer.
3. Mods will undelete answer, if user cites the references, leaving comment (reason why they undeleted it) under the answer.

Bhargav Rao

@TheDestroyer Yes, that should be dealt with first.

Mr_Green

Mods, can you remove the existing starred messages. Lets pin only the above destroyer messages

sv.

5

Q: Why was my answer deleted?

Why was my answer to this question deleted? Which scripts have been used to write Sanskrit? My answer does not violate any of the criteria listed in the help center as candidates for deletion. Also, I was not even notified that it was deleted. Is this courtesy no longer available at Hinduism.SE ?

discussion moderators answers

Bhargav Rao

@Mr_Green Mods can pin messages.

sv.

15:52

The mods there have ZERO clue as to why they deleted it and then reinstated it!

Rickross

@TheDestroyer 1)I don't think we shd allow this.2)We can ask them to update answers with ref.3)I don't think its good to delete all those answers.Let them be.

Mr_Green

yeah I know.. just saying

The Destroyer

@sv. Please point out questions after rules are fixed.

Mr_Green

^ agree

sv.

@TheDestroyer Like I said, I agree 100% with BeHappy's answers. Now if you guys don't agree, we cannot resolve it now or never!

Bhargav Rao

15:54

Can we all have a healthy discussion here?

The new mods are trying to come up with better rules for all.

sv.

@TheDestroyer "1. If a new user doesn't cite references, mods leave comments under their post and wait for some time. " - AGREE

Bhargav Rao

Lets give them some time, before we pile on

Mr_Green

@TheDestroyer where should we post this answer links? here or in a meta post?

sv.

@TheDestroyer "2. If a user still doesn't cite any reference after some days,Mods convert it to comment if it's short answer or delete it if it is long answer." - AGREE

Keshav Srinivasan

@sv. OK, we disagree with BeHappy's answer and you agree with it. But hopefully we can find a set of rules that will satisfy the vast majority of the Community moving forward.

The Destroyer

15:56

@sv. Yes. Tell us what like that for each category.

sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan I especially agree with "3. If no such text references are present, then users can provide answers which they have learned or heard about the culture from parents and others."

@KeshavSrinivasan Now if you don't agree .. even after 18 upvotes .. I think that's your personal preference.

The Destroyer

@sv. Yes. But he also says other users should provide references and he also explicitly doesn't talk about deletion.

That what we have to decide now.

sv.

@TheDestroyer Note what he said: "If no such text references are present..." why Sai Baba needs to be worshipped or need not be worshipped cannot have scriptural references! I wish mods really know when to apply what rules!

Mr_Green

chat is not good place.. losing context easily

Keshav Srinivasan

@sv. I strongly disagree with that. The whole point of having to cite sources is that the reader can easily verify the user's answer is correct. If the user says "My mom told me this story once", then the reader cannot verify it unless he gets the mother's phone number.

Bhargav Rao

15:58

There is a downvote button also

Don't forget that

sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan Yes, mom story is fine with me, if you don't like downvote it. Add a citation banner.

Bhargav Rao

If the answer does not provide references, Downvote, Comment

sv.

@BhargavRao AGREE 100%

Bhargav Rao

This is such a simple issue, Why is this being dragged?

The Destroyer

@BhargavRao but unlike other sites, Scriptures are only proof here.

Bhargav Rao

16:00

@TheDestroyer Yes, Not citing a scripture makes it a "bad" answer

sv.

@TheDestroyer Don't forget that not everything can be explained by means of scriptures. Mods should know when to use the 'cite sources' rule -- that's what shows a good mod from a bad mod!

Bhargav Rao

Bad answers are downvote worthy

Keshav Srinivasan

@sv. Well, but moderation and voting serve separate functions. Moderation is to ensure that a post meets the basic quality standards of the site. Voting is to assess whether an answer is correct or not. So I think we should delete answers that don't cite sources, and then out of the answers that do cite sources people can judge which answers are right or wrong.

The Destroyer

@sv. This is religion. many people claim many things. Scriptures can only tell us what is true and what is false.

sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan So we disagree there, not sure how we can resolve it here and now.

@TheDestroyer What scriptures talk about Sai Baba? Let's not fool ourselves here.

The Destroyer

16:03

@sv. Simple Majority wins. We can opinions of Tezz, Rickross, moonstar and all others.

@sv. For a sai devotee, Sai Sat charitra. They revere it more than anything.

Bhargav Rao

Err, you can't hold closed door talks in a chatroom and claim majority. Put it on meta.

Mr_Green

Guys, lets move forward. Lets fix things step by step. Stick to and respect the context. Value the time of other users.

Bhargav Rao

Yes, that --^

Keshav Srinivasan

@sv. Well, I do think there are circumstances where a scriptural citation isn't required, but in those cases some other citation should be required. Like if a question asks "Are there any Shaiva Siddhanta Acharyas living today.", saying "Yes, this Acharya is a Shaiva Siddhanta Acharyaa." can be backed up by pointing to a statement on his website.

sv.

@TheDestroyer I don't consider "Sai Sat charitra" as scripture! I need a Puranic foretelling!

@BhargavRao I don't flag old answers anymore once I got a response like this from mods:

'this answer was posted in the site's early days, before clear rules were established, so it's grandfathered in'

Mr_Green

16:07

Cool down guys! last time, lets stick to context.

The Destroyer

@sv. Do you remember i did the same when you asked reference for Guru in one of my answers? i gave link to kamakoti site.

sv.

@TheDestroyer Sure. But I did not delete your answer!

Mr_Green

@sv. I admire the way you tracked and recorded every unfair thing in this site. Lets keep this aside for a while and move on, please.

The Destroyer

@sv. yes. that's what we should decide now. We are ready to revise rules if majority of community opposes it.

Bhargav Rao

Is there a meta post asking to change rules?

sv.

16:11

@BhargavRao LOL .. we have so many FAQs already and no one knows what's followed here anymore. Mods have their personal tastes taking over the FAQs they're supposed to uphold!

Mr_Green

sv, share one from your bookmark. we will see :)

sv.

@BhargavRao How do we write new rules? Pick the best from other answers?

Bhargav Rao

14

Q: Guidelines for new users answering questions

Given the nature of the subject, many questions will undoubtedly get different answers, views and opinions. But to keep the site as authentic as possible, certain guidelines should be followed while answering questions about Hinduism. As our interest is to create a clutter-free site of correct i...

discussion faq sources-and-citations answers

The Destroyer

@sv. Don't say Mods. We wouldn't ask for opinions if we wanted to implement our own tastes. Please understand.

Mr_Green

^ yeah lets modify it as necessary

Bhargav Rao

16:13

@sv. That's going a bit overboard. Let's not have wars here, We are a community.

Mr_Green

@TheDestroyer ah ignorance please. lets understand each other or try to..

sv.

@TheDestroyer 18 upvotes on BeHappy's answer means => it's become the law! :P

Bhargav Rao

Once a post is tagged faq, it is the law

Pandya

Take the rules positively regarding the reliability and quality of posts of our community.

sv.

@Mr_Green meta.hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/faq

Mr_Green

16:15

lol yeah there are many

sv.

@BhargavRao AGREE 200% -- which is what I'm trying to tell mods here. Uphold the FAQs! You uphold the law! No need of any personal interpretations and tastes!

Mr_Green

What to do? merge?

Bhargav Rao

I don't see a post where it clearly mentions that "we should delete posts that don't provide references". Is there any?

sv.

@BhargavRao I don't recollect ...

Keshav Srinivasan

@BhargavRao Well, there's this post:

12

Q: Can we enforce quotations of scripture references?

The site is only one day old, and already there is quite a bit of contention between the different understandings of Advaita, Vaishnavism, Shaivism, etc. This is to be expected with such a large banner as "Hinduism." I see a lot of personal opinions on here that are not directly referenced by s...

discussion sources-and-citations

sv.

16:19

@KeshavSrinivasan Where does it say delete in it? Or any of the answers?

Bhargav Rao

@KeshavSrinivasan Perfect!

4

A: Can we enforce quotations of scripture references?

What we can do: Provide references in your own statements Downvote all answers lacking evidence

> Downvote all answers lacking evidence

Not delete

sv.

Shog9 says: "Something that happened to you personally" -- this can only mean one thing and that is reinstate moonstar's answer. I won't try to convince you mods anymore.

Bhargav Rao

This all boils down to a simple thing

Pandya

I think personal experience may not be suitable for this site. — Pandya ♦ 5 hours ago

Bhargav Rao

You all are not able to differentiate between downvote and delete vote.

sv.

16:20

@Pandya Sorry, but that's your personal opinion, not the law! As a mod you're supposed to follow the FAQs.

The Destroyer

@sv. Let's ask how many agree with Shog now. We don't have same users who upvoted when Shog wrote that answers. let's ask experts such as Rickross, tezz and other users.

Mr_Green

personal experience is where we need to make rule whether to have it or not.

I think we have question on this as well

sv.

@TheDestroyer I agree 100% with personal opinions when they're called as such .. use the words "This is my personal opinion...." in your answers. I'm ok with it.

The Destroyer

@sv. This is about Religion. This site is different from other sites such as SO.

Pandya

@sv. note that out site is of very different nature than that of science/technical/physical sites

Mr_Green

16:22

My personal opinion is "Jesus was present in Mahabharata" Checkmate!!

Bhargav Rao

@Mr_Green Again, that is a troll answer.

sv.

@Mr_Green I'm fine with it, I'll downvote and move on.

Bhargav Rao

Troll answer is not the same as a bad answer

Downvote!

Mr_Green

@BhargavRao it is personal opinion. and the user will Prove it.

Keshav Srinivasan

@sv. Look, just because some post was upvoted by a bunch of people a long time ago does not make it into some binding law. Rather than focusing on the past, let's try to form a community consensus on what the rules should be going forward.

Mr_Green

16:23

it looks like troll but not to the answerer

Tezz

I think a new question on Meta should be made regarding Personal opinions:

sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan When we cannot uphold past voting, what's the guanratee, new rules are upheld????

Bhargav Rao

@Tezz Yes that.

Mr_Green

@sv. we will fail to build reference to Hindu scriptures here if that is so. Because quality of answers matters.

Bhargav Rao

@sv. Nope, let's not come to that conclusion this early

sv.

16:25

@Mr_Green The best answers will come to the top. Mods need not interfere. Unless it's spam.

Mr_Green

not if it is a folklore or a famous rumor.

Keshav Srinivasan

@sv. Look, once we agree on rules as a community, and if the moderators are not abiding by those rules, we can address that at that time.

Bhargav Rao

Yes, that ---^

Mr_Green

yeah ok lets address this after sometime

it needs more discussion

The Destroyer

@sv. and @BhargavRao say sources are not required always. Ok. Now can take opinion of others too.

Bhargav Rao

16:27

I'm going to make a meta post, So you all can chip in there

Mr_Green

yeah great

The Destroyer

@BhargavRao There are many issues we need to come consensus not scriptures alone.

sv.

@BhargavRao If there's disagreement...then which ones become rules which are thrown out?

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer To be clear even I think scriptures are not always required. But some kind of source should be required.

Bhargav Rao

@TheDestroyer Yep, I'm thinking only about Topic 1 now.

Tezz

16:29

@sv. I don't think best answers necessarily comes to top... for eg. I wrote 'In the Mahabharta Lord Ganesha is declared as Supreme God. In the fight he defeated Vishnu, Indra and other Gods... " This is inaccurate citing... but many devotees of Ganesha might upvote it seeing Glory of God...

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan Sorry! I meant Sources.

Mr_Green

Two answers: agree explaining why and disagree explaining why (WIKIS)

sv.

@Mr_Green If future users downvote accepted rules .. are they thrown out again?

Bhargav Rao

@sv. Yes

Mr_Green

@sv. nah lets keep a time range or decide here now

Pandya

16:30

@sv. I think you're agree with chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/35675001#35675001 right?

Mr_Green

rules are meant for a period.

sv.

@Tezz That's the hope. But you're right. See this answer.

24

A: Was Lord Rama a non-vegetarian?

Aamisham means meat and it also means enjoyable sense object like kingdom; it also means immense sense gratification and very pleasant and dear sense objects. Why translate this word only to mean meat? Isn't it biased translation? Maamsa means meat and it also means pulp of a fruit or root. Root...

Bhargav Rao

@Pandya I agree with that.

sv.

24 upvotes, other answers cannot shine.

Tezz

@sv. Yeah it's wrong..
But it got 24 votes...

Keshav Srinivasan

16:32

@Tezz Yes, that's why we need to enforce the site's rules through moderation, not just through voting. We should delete answers which just make claims without proof and then out of the answers which are backed up with sources, then users can vote on which answer they think is right.

sv.

@KeshavSrinivasan You should delete that answer then! But wait a sec. it cites a source too! Well within rules! Wow! Game the system!

Mr_Green

though I agree with Keshav, lets hold that thought of deleting answers with lack of sources. Lets decide on the new meta post

which I think Bhargav is posting

The Destroyer

@sv. Let's first come to conclusion and decide.

Mr_Green

I feel like I am in battle :P

Tezz

@Mr_Green haha..

Ankit Sharma

16:35

I can pass u brahmastra

The Destroyer

@sv. Now we know. he misinterpreted it. We can downvote it.

Mr_Green

you lost.. diam..

sv.

@Mr_Green what are we talking about now? seem to be lot of things. citation banners has to do with answer lacking sources!

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan yes, answer with no sources serves for no purpose..

Mr_Green

sv, lets conclude one thing first

The Destroyer

16:36

@sv. Please solve categorically one by one.

Mr_Green

@sv. yeah clearly you pulled us off from the pinned star messages to opinion based answers..

sv.

@TheDestroyer 'citation banners' has much to do with sources!

Bhargav Rao

0

Q: Can we revisit the sources required rule?

There are a few answers based only on what the user knows and which do not provide any citations, what exactly do we do in these cases? From Can we enforce quotations of scripture references?, we get to know that we need to downvote the bad answers and not delete them. From the faq: In the...

discussion sources-and-citations

@TheDestroyer, Can you please post your 3 point agenda as an answer there?

The Destroyer

@sv. let's decide first whether we need sources or not if yes, we can talk about banners

Stack Exchange

Pandya has added The Destroyer to the list of this room's owners.

Mr_Green

16:38

^ was that necessary?

anyway :P

Bhargav Rao

Nope

@sv., Please do add your views there

The Destroyer

So, finally how many say yes for sources and no for sources?

Ankit Sharma

Mod doesn't needed to be a room owner, mods automatically have more power then room owner can have

sv.

@BhargavRao yes left a comment.

Mr_Green

Yes for sources... I want to know what was written but not what wasn't.

sv.

16:41

@TheDestroyer "yes for sources when such a thing exists" (+1) next best thing is personal opinion with the answer specifically calling that out.

Bhargav Rao

@TheDestroyer Yes for sources

@TheDestroyer You can actually add 2, Yes, No messages which we can star.

Mr_Green

^ yeah

sv.

@TheDestroyer "From lowest quality to highest quality of references (according to me)."

12

A: What kind of references are valid in answers? Are modern works allowed?

From lowest quality to highest quality of references (according to me). Wrong reference [for example, misquoting] These should be avoided as they could be misleading. Missing reference (for example, a link that doesn't work] These are to be avoided, if the answer contains only the link. Extre...

Mr_Green

In future, those answers can evolve to a detail one

@sv. I think then we should have three answers. one as "yes", "no", "yes with priority"

The Destroyer

@sv. So, you say yes. ok will discuss what sources are valid in next question.

sv.

16:45

@Mr_Green Yes, that makes sense. Some questions are subjective and can be explained w/out any sources.

The Destroyer

Do we need sources?

1) yes

4

2) No.

Star them.

Mr_Green

lol, I got confused

sv.

3) Yes, where necessary.

The Destroyer

Add +1 for yes, as it includes my vote too.

Mr_Green

@TheDestroyer I realised you are saying that non-scriptural references should be allowed too when scriptural references are not present. That comes under "No". right?

Bhargav Rao

16:48

@TheDestroyer you can pin and unpin it

Tezz

@TheDestroyer haha lol... what's this?.. Isn't this a closed room?

sv.

@TheDestroyer Need a third option, I don't want to waste my vote on ambiguous options :P

Bhargav Rao

There is no ambiguous options

It's either a Firm yes or a Firm no

Mr_Green

Yes, means strictly scriptural. No, means loosely scriptural

Bhargav Rao

Nope

Yes means, we need sources

No means, we don't need sources

Mr_Green

16:51

^ that nobody will agree with

The Destroyer

@Mr_Green Bhargav is correct.

Mr_Green

I mean with No then

sv.

@BhargavRao No...this is exactly the problem now. Need sources rules applied to wrong answers which don't need them.

Mr_Green

clearly, sv is asking for sources too

Bhargav Rao

I think we need to ask the opposite question

What do we need to do to the posts that do not cite sources?

1. Downvote and comment

2. Delete

2

sv.

16:52

@BhargavRao Yes. That makes more sense.

Tezz

Should personal opinions be considered source?

1 Yes

2 No

3

Mr_Green

^ this is right

we just starring things :/

Tezz

Add +1 to No... my vote also...

sv.

6

Q: What should we do about opinion based answers?

I'll keep it brief. Browsing the site today and saw this: Is the ultimate purpose of life only to serve God? There are 7 answers on there, and except for jabahar, everyone just gave some wishy washy "here is what I think" answer. His answer was the only one truly from a "Hinduism" point of view ...

discussion moderators answers

Let's NOT fill meta with repeated posts.

Mr_Green

lol ok. does that need any modifications?

lets revisit it

sv.

16:55

Already stated my views there in the answer.

5

A: What should we do about opinion based answers?

I agree with @Mr.Alien that We cannot delete the answers unless they are surely wrong or makes no sense. Also, from @BeHappy's answer to Guidelines for new users answering questions which received 17 upvotes as of today: 3. If no such text references are present, then users can provide ans...

Mr_Green

^ You still stand on the same? just asking.. I haven't read it.

The Destroyer

Guys, Can we conclude anything?

Mr_Green

make it as descriptive as possible. if necessary

sv.

@Mr_Green Yes, not all opinion based answers should be taken down. Not every answer that lacks sources becomes an opinionated answer.

Mr_Green

ok great

^

3

A: What should we do about opinion based answers?

Side note: For most of the users who don't have sufficient privileges to view deleted answers, its just 6 answers for them and not 7. Coming to the question, it has around 2.5K views so the question was listed in Hot Network Questions for sure, so when any of the question enters into Hot Network...

^ does this answer need any modification?

@KeshavSrinivasan @Tezz @TheDestroyer @Pandya

sv.

16:57

@Mr_Green I actually agreed with Mr.Alien there .. yet what we implement today is different.

Mr_Green

yeah, I hope from tomorrow we stick to one thing.

Tezz

@sv. What to do of there is one opinion based answer and one well sourced answer in a same question? Like that in Ramayana question.. shouldn't we delete the opinions there?..

Mr_Green

@Tezz should be deleted from everywhere without comparing a page. but that is again my opinion.

Bhargav Rao

@TheDestroyer looks like everyone is divided on what to do when an answer that doesn't have citations.

sv.

@Tezz Well technically the answer cites some source...

Mr_Green

17:01

@BhargavRao Yeah I upvoted alien's answer

Tezz

@sv. Yes at least it cites Sanskrit Dhatus... but there can be purely folk tales answers also...

Mr_Green

I would downvote sv's answer but I think that's cheating :P

sv.

@Mr_Green Then why were you against moonstar's answer? can't make up your mind?

The Destroyer

@sv. Most important thing is whether opinions are sources or not.

Mr_Green

@sv. I have no idea about that.

Tezz

17:02

@Mr_Green yes without comparing page is good... but this might decrease answered % heavily... but this is again my view... (😀)...

Mr_Green

until it comes out of beta, lets delete the posts. agreed

The Destroyer

That's the reason i asked three questions

5 hours ago, by The Destroyer

Topic 1: Whole community should come to one stand on dealing with anwers that don't have references. we can subcategorize this into three sections.
1) "Answers of new users with no references"
2) "Answers of active users (or high rep) with no references" and
3) "Answers of old users (who are not so active) with no references".

Mr_Green

just like parshuram

Tezz

@Mr_Green haha... Lord ParashuRama...

sv.

@Mr_Green I'm ok with that provided we delete all old answers as well .. let's not apply different rules to different answers. Based on old vs. new.

@Mr_Green We should keep in mind again, not all answers require sources.

Example:

2

Q: Why and how do Hindus celebrate Christmas?

Why and how do (some) Hindus celebrate Christmas? What have any modern Hindu Gurus commented on this practice? EDIT I don't think this is an opinion-based question. From What types of questions should I avoid asking? I think this fits into constructive subjective questions: "inspire answers ...

culture tradition other-religions christianity

Mr_Green

17:07

Yeah then let's delete old answer

Too

Tezz

@sv. Yes, I think answers which do not need sources can be seperated by common sense...

Mr_Green

@sv. this seems off topic

The Destroyer

@sv. Honestly, i feel it as opinion based question or offtopic. Firstly, Christmas is nowhere related to Hinduism. So, i feel offtopic.

sv.

@Mr_Green You can VTC :)

Mr_Green

Christmas has nothing to do with Hinduism

Tezz

17:09

@sv. But what if someone answers that question citing 'Celebrating Mlechha Dharma festival is prohibited.'

sv.

@TheDestroyer What Hindus do .. is related to Hinduism.

Mr_Green

Yup will do

sv.

@Tezz Yes, acceptable answer!

Tezz

@sv. But One can generate N. no. Of questions asking how one should celebrate this festival (Mlechha)..

sv.

@Mr_Green Someone will say worshipping Sai Baba is not Hinduism .. what do u have to say to that?

The Destroyer

17:11

@sv. Already Shankaracharyas say that.

Mr_Green

Definitely not Hinduism related

sv.

@Tezz You need a phenomenon to ask a question. I cannot ask a hypothetical question, I could ask a question on what I see Hindus do everyday.

Mr_Green

Sai Baba is by all means doesn't belong to a single religion

Tezz

@sv. But I don't think there can be a answer for how Hindus celebrate Christmas...

sv.

I want this re-opened too ..

3

Q: How do Hindu kids see with their eyes closed?

There are plenty of videos on the Internet which show such talents of Hindu children. Example: Samyak Jain Super Wonder Kid who can read with closed eyes Human X-Ray machine: Unbelievable Eye sight Girl demonstrates Cool SuperPower (Third Eye) Can you read blindfolded? This 8-year-old can Ho...

yoga meditation

Tezz

17:13

One can do anything...

Mr_Green

Lol

We are going out of context

Tezz

@sv. @all are those videos real?..

sv.

@Tezz Not every question can have one correct answer or has to have an accepted answer.

@Tezz I think so ..

@Mr_Green Anyway. My point is .. not all answers require sources. Those are 2 examples I gave.

Tezz

@sv. Yes.. questions can have contradictory answers too...

Mr_Green

@sv. what is happening here? Even high rep users answered that..

@sv. I think if it is related to Hinduism. There should be sources always

The Destroyer

17:16

I agree with Rickross

in Vedanta and Philosophy, Jan 29 at 14:32, by Rickross

@TheDestroyer Yes..that's what i meant..many people are unsure of whtr a particular post is off or on topic because they have not studied all scriptures and they don't also know which scriptures are likely to provide the answer to it..

sv.

@Mr_Green Not necessarily.

The Destroyer

@Mr_Green It could be possible with Yoga for normal beings but not sure for children.

Mr_Green

Any example? The questions u shown above seems off topic to me. So I am unable to except it

Tezz

@TheDestroyer I think Mr. Green is talking about that Christmas question... @Mr_Green isn't it?...

Mr_Green

Yes

The Destroyer

17:19

@Tezz ohh. Ok. i thought Children question.

Mr_Green

17:30

@KeshavSrinivasan was that yo mama joke?

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan if we gets Moms phone no. also.. then what's use... 😀😀

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan Yes. She is anyways not Vyasa. :P

Tezz

@TheDestroyer 😀😀

Keshav Srinivasan

17:45

@Tezz Then we can call and ask through what Guru Parampara she acquired this knowledge, haha

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan haha.. and she might tell... my mother and neighbours told it... 😀😀

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Then we need a time machine or Trikalajnani rishi to verify her full Parampara :-)

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan or we may call 'Guru Parampara of Dubious Authenticity..':-)

Mr. Alien

@Pandya you are the mod now, you can delete it without asking me if you think that's not fair :)

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