deutschsprachiger Raum

Astrum

07:20

@Vogel612 that's why I gave up on weekends a while ago

woooohin gehst du.... wohin

Nevik Rehnel

i'm usually here on weekends. this past one was an exception

Astrum

well, you're here now

Nevik Rehnel

oh no, i gave myself away!

Astrum

mwuahahaha

time to pelt you with German questions

ANSWER THEM SLAVE

Nevik Rehnel

<-- toils under the yoke of the Astrum master

Astrum

07:25

or you know you could... log off XD

anyway

Nevik Rehnel

logging off is for the weak

i'll have to leave soon though

Astrum

I was thinking earlier, and I wanted to say "We need you to tell us what to do" - And I honestly am lost

yeah, it's alright

Nevik Rehnel

ah yes, i can see what puts you off in that sentence

the "need so. to do sth." bit doesn't translate in any literal way

Astrum

well, it's not just that, it's the two verbs on the end, and also the "what" and "us"

I'm guessing an equal sentence in German looks very different

Nevik Rehnel

yes, but that's mostly due to the main verb not translating as mentioned

Astrum

07:28

so, how does one translate this?

Nevik Rehnel

you can put it as a direct request or direction, like "(Please) Tell us what to do(!)": (Bitte) sag* uns, was wir tun sollen.

Astrum

Well, in the original context, I meant this as a sarcastic "We REALLY need you!"

Nevik Rehnel

*) "sag" is the imperative singular form; if the "you" is intended to be plural, the appropriate imperative form is "sagt"

@Astrum you can include something like "It is important/imperative/critical that you tell us what to do."

"Es ist (sehr) wichtig/Es ist von äußerster Wichtigkeit, dass ihr uns sagt, was zu tun ist!"

or alternatively "You MUST tell us what to do!"

Du musst uns sagen, was wir tun sollen!

Astrum

Hm, interesting

sollen = should all the time, everytime?

Nevik Rehnel

pretty much

the borders between should and must, and similar words, are similarly fuzzy in both german and english

Astrum

07:34

er... is it an auxiliary verb?

like haben

Nevik Rehnel

yes

Astrum

Hm, that's not too bad

I had expected something worse

Nevik Rehnel

(german gets rather funky when you have to combine two aux verbs because of tenses)

Astrum

examples

bitte

Nevik Rehnel

"We should have gone there.": Wir hätten dorthin gehen sollen.

notice how "sollen" does not get inclined to "gesollt" even though it is a past conjunctive

Astrum

07:36

yeah, that's pretty weird

Nevik Rehnel

it's basically in the very-distant tenses (past participle, past conjunctive, future II)

"I had not had to see that yet.": Ich hatte das noch nicht sehen müssen.

same principle

Astrum

I try to to worry too much about those weird sentences until they come up

Nevik Rehnel

yeah that's good

they're not overly common in every-day use. and even if you mess up the aux verb, it's still understandable

Astrum

I had another question to ask you, but not really about German

Nevik Rehnel

sure

Astrum

07:38

how are European airports?

I'd ask my friend, but he's afraid of planes

and hence has never been to an airport

Nevik Rehnel

I can't honestly say in general. I've only used on european airport twice.

and at those times, i didnt see very much of it

Astrum

but in the US, as you know, we've got tons of screening, scans, patdowns

they go through pretty much all your stuff too

I suspect this wouldn't play to well in Germany

Nevik Rehnel

well we have security, of course, but i cant really compare it

Astrum

too*

Nevik Rehnel

they put your carry-on through a scanner and have you step through a metal detector

Astrum

07:40

here we have to walk through an x-ray machine, or get a pat down

Nevik Rehnel

i cant remember regular pat-downs. probably only irregularly or when they suspect something

Astrum

'merica

Nevik Rehnel

but the one time i went through security here, i was rather late so it was a) all a bit hurried and b) no line at my security counter

Astrum

I'm really hoping Europe isn't as dumb as the US, maybe I could finally move to a better place

Nevik Rehnel

there's stuff to complain about everywhere :P

Astrum

07:42

Sure, but I feel that the US does more harm than good, but I'm not sure. Maybe the grass is just greener

on the other side

Nevik Rehnel

the US was recently voted the largest risk to .... something, i dont know the exact term they used. world safety or peace or freedom. some such buzzword

Astrum

It's truly a great irony

Nevik Rehnel

but it was to be expected

what i personally dont like about the US is their general self-importance (on a national scale)

Astrum

I keep hearing about how we're gonna turn in to the DDR, I wonder if things will ever get that bad.

ahahahahahaha

you have no idea

Nevik Rehnel

as germans, however, our perspective is rather skewed. as our patriotism has been rather... silenced, the past 50-60 years

for known reasons

Astrum

07:46

Thankfully my generation is not as bad as the older ones, in terms of "exceptionalism"

Nevik Rehnel

in my generation, this has become normality. I don't think Germany is the best country, or even that much better than most others. I know we excel in some specific measures, but some of those things are rather regional within germany as well.

Astrum

I saw some far-right anti immigration demonstration in Berlin, a while ago

Nevik Rehnel

well you always have that everywhere

where "everywhere" means "in places with so-called freedom of speech"

Astrum

I have a fascination with Switzerland, I just hope they live up to my expectations

Nevik Rehnel

hahaha

I have a hard time remaining serious when talking to a swiss person

their accent cracks me up

Astrum

07:48

accent, I know

Nevik Rehnel

it's entirely undignified to laugh at it, but I can't help it

Astrum

but they mind their own business, which is a huge plus for me

and they don't get involved with other people's stuff

and they have nice mountains too, that never hurts

Nevik Rehnel

haha, indeed

Astrum

I don't know how things will turn out, really. If I can get German well enough, I'll be in Europe sometime soon, for a semester or two

=D

Nevik Rehnel

:D

Astrum

07:52

Doing a bit of research, I've heard that the German language tests given to foreigners are very easy

as in, a B2/2-C1/1 level is required for all unis, but people with a B1 level slip through the tests

sounds like our system

Nevik Rehnel

i honestly have no idea, haha

the language levels also confuse me. i can never remember their order or difficulty

i havent looked into it since i got my english certificate in 12th grade

Astrum

there's a nice article on wikipedia about it

Common European Framework of Reference for Languages

The Common European Framework of Reference for Languages: Learning, Teaching, Assessment, abbreviated as CEFR, is a guideline used to describe achievements of learners of foreign languages across Europe and, increasingly, in other countries (for example, Colombia and the Philippines). It was put together by the Council of Europe as the main part of the project "Language Learning for European Citizenship" between 1989 and 1996. Its main aim is to provide a method of learning, teaching and assessing which applies to all languages in Europe. In November 2001 a European Union Council Resoluti...

Nevik Rehnel

my mind is so weird

Astrum

I took a test a couple days ago and got A2

not sure how, but I managed

Nevik Rehnel

when i seen an abbreviation like CEFR, my mind always puts forth the japanese pronunciation

Astrum

07:55

which would be....?

Nevik Rehnel

"sheffur" or similar

it's a bit difficult to render in english

Astrum

how do you write in Japanese on a keyboard?

Nevik Rehnel

with so-called IME (input method editor). you type the transliteration, and it converts it into characters

こんなに

Astrum

that sounds like a miserable time

Nevik Rehnel

nah, you actually get used to it pretty quickly

there are japanese keyboards, of course

but if you dont have that, IMEs work well

Astrum

07:57

but.... how?

don't they have like... 5000 symbols?

Nevik Rehnel

haha, yes, but they also have pronunciation symbols

also, you're lacking a 0 there

though by far not all of them are ever used

japanese students learn about 2000 kanji (pictograms) by the end of high school

the pronunciation alphabet is about 50 syllables, denoted by about 30 characters (some of which have simple variations to make up the remaining 20)

Astrum

it sounds like an inefficient language in the modern computer world, if you ask me

Nevik Rehnel

yes, for computers it's inefficient

but it has a larger world for connotations and meanings. so in literary and naming contexts, it's much richer

Astrum

how difficult is it, in terms of other languages? Chinese, Russian, Arabic etc.?

Nevik Rehnel

@Astrum btw en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_input_methods

Astrum

08:01

if you have any exposure to them I mean

Nevik Rehnel

i have no idea about the others, haha

so i can't say

anyway, i gotta head out to have my thesis printed

i might be back soon though. dont know how long this takes

Astrum

alright, see ya later

Nevik Rehnel

bye :D

Astrum

I'll be here... studying German

good luck!

gotta restart my comp after a virus scan

Gigili

@NevikRehnel What is it about?

Astrum

08:29

by reading (trying) the news in German, I get a lot of words for violent things

I think my vocab may be a little skewed

Astrum

08:40

@Takkat what can you tell me about the differences between the words "gewinnen" and "siegen"? they seem to be very similar

Nevik Rehnel

@Gigili Evolving self-organizing robotic swarms :D

@Astrum well, i think that's the same for the news in any nation in this day and age

Astrum

Yup, I was just saying that maybe I ought to read something else

Nevik Rehnel

indeed

Astrum

and since you came back so soon, you can answer my question, woohoo

Nevik Rehnel

@Astrum the meaning of both words is nearly the same; they differ mostly grammatically

Astrum

08:50

I hate words like this...

Nevik Rehnel

"gewinnen" is used exactly the same as "to win" in english; "etwas (Akk.) gewinnen" means "to win something", where that something can both be the competition that is being won or the prize one gets for winning

"siegen" is probably more literally translated as "be victorious" (siegreich sein) or "to achieve victory" (den Sieg erringen), as the competition which is being won follows with preposition "in": Er siegte im Zehnkampf. (He was victorious at the decathlon.)

that's an "in" with dative, btw (therefore, "im (=in dem) Zehnkampf"), as it indicates a "location" (figuratively) of the victory, confer what i explained the other day:

yesterday, by Nevik Rehnel

@MazenBesher What Takkat didn't explicitly say: in + dative ("in dem Urlaub/im Urlaub") indicates a location of the subject or action of the sentence. in + accussative ("in den Urlaub") indicates a direction

Astrum

Zehnkampf?

Nevik Rehnel

> (He was victorious at the decathlon.)

Astrum

which is....?

Nevik Rehnel

like a biathlon, a triathlon or a pentathlon, but with 10 disciplines :D

it's an athletic competition

Astrum

08:55

oohhhh

yeah, never heard of a decathlon

Nevik Rehnel

it's funny how i dont follow sports at all but know that word (in both languages, no less)

Astrum

I'm not into sports either

but I plan on watching the world cup on and off this year

so I can watch Spain lose

Nevik Rehnel

which world cup

there are so many

Astrum

2014 World Cup, footbakk

football*

Nevik Rehnel

oh i didnt even realize it was on again

Astrum

08:57

Brazil

Nevik Rehnel

soccer is so silly

Astrum

every sport is

I watch tennis a little bit too

Nevik Rehnel

i forgot to mention that soccer is also boring

Astrum

I can certainly understand that, it really is if you don't pick a side

Nevik Rehnel

and picking sides is what i dont get about sports

Astrum

08:58

bro, it's all about where you're living/from

Nevik Rehnel

my lack of patriotism might come out in that aspect as well :P

Astrum

I'm obligated to root for the Italians, even though I'm only 50%

Nevik Rehnel

lol

Astrum

but at least it's a REAL 50$!

50%

Nevik Rehnel

i dont see why i would be obligated to root for anything. it is neither due to my participation that germany achieves anything (or not), nor do i benefit from the outcome

Astrum

09:00

I used to think the same

but it's just fun and games, really

Nevik Rehnel

additionally, there are sports where the participants are a lot more visually pleasing than in soccer

Astrum

haha

Nevik Rehnel

(though soccer beats rugby by astronomical margin)

Astrum

but they're men, so I really don't watch it for visually pleasing people

as long as you don't take it seriously, it can be fun

Nevik Rehnel

you should check out volleyball

Astrum

09:01

unlike the Polish and the Russians.....

Nevik Rehnel

haha, indeed

Astrum

oh, I have

Polish people seem to have a problem with everybody

in my town, there are a butt-ton of Polish people

Polish was the most common ethnicity in my HS, and they had a problem with everybody that wasn't Polish

(when it came to national identity, I mean)

those were the days

it probably didn't help that we used to "kid" them... but whatever

Nevik Rehnel

haha

Astrum

now that I think about it... we were kinda dicks to them, which might be why they always got defensive...

I'm sure you're aware of Polish jokes

Nevik Rehnel

HS kids be HS kids

@Astrum we invented them :P

Astrum

09:06

for real?!

holy hell

I thought WE invented them

they're that old?

Nevik Rehnel

the polish probably just stole them somewhere

(budum psh)

Astrum

hahaha

there was one girl that actually moved back to Poland when she graduated

She lives in Warsaw now

Nevik Rehnel

anyway. im gonna head over to uni to hand in my thesis

it's so much x.x

Astrum

how many pages?

Nevik Rehnel

76 total. one-sided, three copies

Astrum

09:08

do you need to do an oral defense?

Nevik Rehnel

yeah

Astrum

ouch

Nevik Rehnel

nah that's usually not too bad

Astrum

until they ask you a question that you don't know

Nevik Rehnel

basically you give a 15-20 min presentation, then you get questions for abotu 10 mins

Astrum

09:09

then you'll crap your pants

Nevik Rehnel

they basically just want to see if you actually did it yourself

Astrum

ah, I thought it was like a PhD, with a 2-4 hour defense

Nevik Rehnel

it's just a bachelor thesis, they probably wont try to poke huge holes in my scientific practise

Astrum

it's all original research?

I wonder why we don't do those here

Nevik Rehnel

i also have the calming effect that my grade doesnt matter anymore. i just have to pass, which is pretty much a given

well it's not entirely original, but some of it is. i did develop a model and test it empirically

Astrum

09:11

that takes a lot of pressure off

Nevik Rehnel

anywho, im heading out again. dont know how long this takes. so later, or good night :D

Astrum

alright, you too

I'll hang around here for another hour or so and head up to bed

see ya!

Astrum

09:22

I wonder if french-press coffee is better than drip coffee

►

Gigili

09:53

@NevikRehnel Umm, interesting! (I actually don't know what it is about)

Nevik Rehnel

@Gigili in my case, using artificial evolution to automatically create and improve control programs for robots

Gigili

Quite advanced for a bachelor thesis, isn't it?

Nevik Rehnel

somewhat. i just put in too much content overall >.>

Gigili

I'm not interested in robots and topics related to them, though.

Nevik Rehnel

but oh well, i just handed it in \o/

Gigili

10:02

Huh, congrats!

Nevik Rehnel

thanks :D

OregonGhost

10:14

Moin... Please don't talk that much between Friday evening and Monday noon, it's so much to read to catch up ;)

Nevik Rehnel

just ignore it :P

OregonGhost

Ignore, the mating call of the loser ;)

Astrum

Sie wurde 1855 als «Eidgenössisches Polytechnikum» gegründet und wird deshalb auch oft Poly genannt - why da hell isn't there a comma after "und"

before*

Nevik Rehnel

why would there be. we dont have oxford commas in german

both parts of a binary conjunction have equal rights, so neither is devalued with a comma :P

OregonGhost

@NevikRehnel Good one :)

Nevik Rehnel

10:19

(in other words: you're sticking together two main clauses on the same level, so neither needs a comma, which usually marks only subclauses or delimits the items in an enumeration)

Astrum

but I thought that when we have an auxiliary verb, the main verb goes to the end of the cluase

I thought wurde was an auxiliary...

Nevik Rehnel

@Astrum there subclause-introducing aux verb here

the wird and wurde are simply the aux verbs required for passive constructions

it's the same as in english

OregonGhost

@Astrum: You were talking about how European airports compare to American ones, were you? My experience travelling to LA was: Hamburg is nice and fast as always, Zürich is nice as well - and arriving at LA was fast and nice as well. Did expect way more problems, but before we knew what happened, we already stood outside of the airport looking for our bus...

Nevik Rehnel

"It was founded in 1855 as 'bla' and is therefore often called 'bla'."

OregonGhost

... But the security when leaving the USA was way stronger Oo

Astrum

10:21

@OregonGhost what year was this?

OregonGhost

2013

Astrum

ah

Nevik Rehnel

@OregonGhost wouldnt want you to steal their "culture" or anything

Astrum

@NevikRehnel that would be a real tragedy

Nevik Rehnel

it would also be reeeeeeally difficult

OregonGhost

10:23

Don't know. You have to fill out all these things when entering, like ESTA (but you do that online way before), then the TSA info at the airport (done when walking to the gate), then the customs declaration (like don't import anything to eat, done in the plane) and that's it, basically. Just show your passport, get your finger prints scanned, and some of the security offers even talked German :)

I don't know if the simplicity had something to do with travelling over Switzerland.

Gigili

What's the meaning of "bella"?

In bella chao

OregonGhost

Swiss has nice chocolate when you arrive, by the way ;)

Gigili

Is that a name?

Astrum

@OregonGhost you probably would have had a miserable time at JFK or Logan

OregonGhost

Bella is a name. And it's beautiful in Italian, isn't it?

Astrum

10:24

Bella means beautiful

yeah

Gigili

@OregonGhost So we'll have nice chocolates, yes?

OregonGhost

@Gigili If you travel with Swiss, yes, every time :)

Astrum

are you thinking about that old WWII Italian/Spanish song? @Gigili

Nevik Rehnel

@Gigili spelled "ciao" btw :D

Astrum

These big German sentences are killing me

Gigili

10:28

@Astrum Yes, that's the one I am talking about

@NevikRehnel I know, only if I could hit the letters on my keyboard a little harder!

Astrum

@Gigili I never found out if the Italian/Spanish song was first, or the Soviet Катюша

mech keyboard

you'll never leave the computer

Gigili

@Astrum Whichever was first, I like the German version better

Nevik Rehnel

@Gigili focus! @_@

Astrum

(not that I would know, since I don't have one)

Gigili

@Astrum Germans are awesome like that!

Astrum

10:29

there's... there's a German version?

Gigili

Yes!

Astrum

link pleeez

Nevik Rehnel

google? :P

Gigili

Umm, wait a moment please

Yes, you can also google it

Astrum

lazy @NevikRehnel

Gigili

10:30

@NevikRehnel Why don't you answer my question? :-w

@OregonGhost You know what I mean. Where's my souvenir?

OregonGhost

@Gigili Do I know what you mean? Did I promise you anything? :X

Nevik Rehnel

@Gigili which question?

Gigili

@OregonGhost I see you still use that love-smiley from time to time

@NevikRehnel What does Bella mean?

The blue button with 3.79 MB on it

Astrum

@Gigili this isn't gonna infect my comp, right? if it is, I'll be coming for you

where doest thou hail from?

Gigili

@Astrum Your choice, you asked for a link, I didn't give it to you

Ugh

Astrum

10:36

ugh....?

awkward silence

Nevik Rehnel

@Gigili I don't know. I don't speak italian :D

also, im having lunch now so im pretty much afk ;) just fyi

Astrum

@Gigili you're not gonna make me guess, are you?

Gigili

You're never AFK

You're not gonna make me leave, are you?

Astrum

is it that big of a deal? O.o

Gigili

I have no idea what you're talking about

Did you download it or not?

Gotta go anyway

Astrum

10:41

@OregonGhost is there a difference between zunehmen and wachsen?

Well, see ya later @Gigili yeah, I donwloaed it

Gigili

You're welcome

Astrum

it's nice, never saw it online before

OregonGhost

@Astrum Yes, wachsen is vertical and zunehmen horizontal ;)

At least when talking about people :D

Astrum

well, take a look at this sentence

. Seit 1968 hat die Zahl der weiblichen Studenten stark zugenommen und betrug im Herbstsemester 2010 31,2 %

OregonGhost

Yes, you could also say "ist die Zahl ... gewachsen" here.

Astrum

10:44

so many synonyms

Die ETH Zürich ist in 16 Departemente unterteilt. - unterteilt is a verb here?

or is that an adjective

OregonGhost

Now that's a good question ;)

Astrum

lol

never mind, then

OregonGhost

I'd think it's an adjective, because it would be "ist unterteilt worden" or "wurde unterteilt" if it was a verb.

Astrum

@OregonGhost thanks for the help, it's time for me to go to sleep

OregonGhost

Good night then

Astrum

10:49

and good day to you

see ya!

have fun

Nevik Rehnel

11:00

@Gigili nonsense, i was afk until just now :P

Em1

18:04

Hahaha @Takkat geht in die 7.te Klasse !!!!! :D

Mazen Besher

18:52

Nach "als" und "wie" benutzt man Nominativ, Dativ oder Akkusativ?
z.B: Ich bin so gut wie (du / dich / dir). Du bist höher als (ich / mich / mir).

Takkat

@MazenBesher man nimmt so gut wie immer den Nominativ.

Mazen Besher

@Takkat Vielen Dank ... what a fast replay :)

Takkat

whenever I sit here I can be even faster :D

only I don't sit here all the time.

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