Discussion between MAR and FFahim

M.A.R.

17:44

Hello

ffahim

Thanks in advance for your cordial behaviour

M.A.R.

Please ask your question here, because an important discussion is going on.

What is your question @ffa?

ffahim

Hmmm what should be considered first about numbering

Such that there sum became least

Right?

M.A.R.

Yes, there are edge cases though.

We need to know what kind of compounds we're dealing with first.

There's a whole world of compounds out there.

ffahim

Tell me one thing that is there any exceptional of IUPAC naming?

M.A.R.

17:48

No, there are no exceptions to IUPAC naming.

Because IUPAC is the organization that does the naming.

But there are rules you don't study.

And never will.

ffahim

I wish I could send u that pic which I am in problem

M.A.R.

The rules you do study are to provide exam material.

@ffahim Can you take a screenshot?

Is it on your computer, or a paper?

ffahim

Ch3(CH2)3-C(CH3)(C2H5)-C(CH3)2-(CH2)3-CH3

I had

But how to post here?

M.A.R.

There's the upload button below.

Near the place you type.

ffahim

Would you kindly wait 15 minutes. Let me open my pc pls

M.A.R.

17:54

Sure.

ffahim

That's so nice of u

ffahim

18:12

another remaining

name these two @M.A.R.

M.A.R.

What have you tried?

ffahim

i have tried for both of them

M.A.R.

@ffahim Can you choose the main branch?

What is the main branch called?

ffahim

yep

M.A.R.

Is it a heptane, octane, nonane or decane?

ffahim

18:15

both r decane

wait

M.A.R.

Sure?

You guessed the first one right.

The second one wrong.

ffahim

i made a great mistake

M.A.R.

No, it was tiny.

ffahim

2nd pic was not my pic

here u go

just these two

forget about previous one .... so what was my question was the naming problem

M.A.R.

@ffahim What is this one? Heptane, octane, nonane or decane?

The main branch, I mean.

ffahim

18:20

here both r decane

first let's talk about one by one

what if i say

this is 4,6-diethyle-4,7,7-trimethyle-5,6-dipropyldecane?

@M.A.R.

M.A.R.

@ffahim p comes first

I meant before t.

ffahim

okay but the name is right ?

M.A.R.

4,6-diethyl-5,6-dipropyl-4,7,7-trimethyl decane

ffahim

but its written in the net that its 5,7diethyle-4,4,7-trimethyle-5,6-dipropyledecane-

does that make sense?

M.A.R.

Well, let's calculate the sum of locants

Well yeah, I was wrong.

ffahim

18:27

how?

M.A.R.

@ffahim the sum is 38 here.

@ffahim the sum is 39 here

So the 38 thing is right.

The rule is actually something else, which would allow for an exception in rare cases, but not here.

ffahim

do we need to write names such that the total some becomes [email protected].

M.A.R.

@ffahim Yes, the sum of locants should be the least

@ffahim Read this though. This describes everything better than me. chem.ucalgary.ca/courses/351/orgnom/main/dontsum.html

ffahim

what abut this'?

here its always 22... the some of locants

M.A.R.

The ethyl gets the lower number.

Since it comes first in the alphabet.

ffahim

18:33

is this some rule?

M.A.R.

Yes, this one is a real IUPAC rule.

ffahim

oh my gosh.... i didn't learn anything in my school .... thanks a lot......

thanks a lot again

M.A.R.

No problema

ffahim

18:46

C2H5-C(C3H7)H-CH2-C(C2H5)H-C(CH3)2H pls pls pls tell its name .... for the last [email protected].

M.A.R.

@ffahim When you have a ramble like this, you should always draw structures first to make sure you don't make any mistakes.

ffahim

pls its in my text book and answer is not given .... that's why pls help me....

i won't disturb u a lot any more... pls last one

M.A.R.

OK, lemme get my hand on pencil and paper

ffahim

sure

M.A.R.

@ffahim At least tell me what the main chain will be

Sigh, whatever

ffahim

18:52

look i myself ain't sure at my own answer.... that's why i gave that to u... if i tell u it may be wrong ... since i have a doubt i made a mistake... so pls

M.A.R.

@ffahim Of course it may be wrong. I'm here to correct it. It may be right too.

Don't ever be afraid of trying.

ffahim

okay

CH3-CH-CH-CH2-CH-CH2-CH2-CH3

M.A.R.

3,5-diethyl octane.

ffahim

don't know am i right or wrong..........

M.A.R.

You chose the main branch right.

ffahim

18:55

but wait

what about 2 methyle

its missing in ur answer

M.A.R.

What 2-methyl?

Lemme take a look.

You have 12 carbons.

You can't have a methyl.

ffahim

13

M.A.R.

10 mins ago, by ffahim

C2H5-C(C3H7)H-CH2-C(C2H5)H-C(CH3)2H pls pls pls tell its name .... for the last [email protected].

That's 12.

That's why you should always draw a structure.

ffahim

its 13 .. pls look again

orthocresol

15

A: IUPAC nomenclature: "Smallest sum of locants"?

The guideline that you have mentioned (‘While naming any compound, the numbering should be done such that position of substituted groups gives smallest sum.’) does not exist in the IUPAC recommendations. The corresponding section in the current version of Nomenclature of Organic Chemistry – IUPA...

sneaks away

M.A.R.

18:59

@orthocresol I know I know, dammit

ffahim

@M.A.R. IS 13 LOOK AGAIN PLS

orthocresol

@M.A.R. Don't bother about it.

M.A.R.

@ffahim I see an ethyl, a propyl, another ethyl, and a methyl as substituents.

orthocresol

Carry on

M.A.R.

But if you draw the structure, you'd see that the methyl connected to the atom is no different from the ethyl.

Thus we have no methyl- in our naming.

And I've been counting this for 10 times dude.

It's 12 carbons.

Maybe you should check your chat message and see if you've dropped something @ffa

ffahim

19:03

C2H5-C(C3H7)H-CH2-C(C2H5)H-C(CH3)2H pls pls pls tell its name .... for the last [email protected]. """""""""" ITS STILL 13

M.A.R.

It's 12.

ffahim

pls send me a pic .... as i am not been able to send pic at this moment :-)

M.A.R.

@Wild it seems we can't agree on the number of carbons here.

As a kitty, could you count them please?

@ffahim If I draw the structure for you, what is the point of learning?

I won't spoonfeed you. I don't want to betray you.

Wildcat

13

M.A.R.

Darn

What am I overseeing . . . oh wait.

I kept seeing that as H2, not 2H. -___-

ffahim

19:06

ohh i am really sorry for that

now what should be the name ...

?

Wildcat

@M.A.R. XD

without subscripts -C(CH3)2H part might be confusing

-CH(CH3)2

I guess is much better way to write it anyway.

ffahim

@Wildcat yes i would have done this before....

@M.A.R. what would be it's name ? pls

Vedant

$\ce{C-}$

M.A.R.

Oh well. Nothing changes. Just add a 2-methyl there.

Vedant

chuck jst testing

M.A.R.

19:10

The name is 3,5-diethyl-2-methyl octane.

ffahim

3,5 diethyle -2methyle-octen?

thanks thanks a lot

i am so happy now

M.A.R.

@ffahim Spelling is important. 'methyle' doesn't exist, but 'methyl' does. :)

@ffahim I'm happy that you're happy.

ffahim

hmmm i will keep in this mind further :-)

Vedant

(a) part

do we take any one as the longet carbon chain and continue or what??

M.A.R.

@Vedant I don't like counting ants . . .

@Vedant Well, I bet in this case they name things as substituents of that tricarboxylic acid thing.

There are more systems of naming than one.

Vedant

19:13

So it dowsnt have a unique IUPAC name?

M.A.R.

If everything was unique, nothing would be unique.

It might be though. It doesn't ring a bell.

Usually lipids and stuff have their own way of naming in biochem.

Vedant

so its xxxx propane right?? atleast

M.A.R.

They ARE still named with IUPAC rules but nobody reads that name

@Vedant Yes

But tripropanoic acid, not propane

Vedant

yup

NO i dont htink its propanoic acid either

ohhhh

is it 1,2,3 Pentadecane propanoic acid

orthocresol

19:29

@M.A.R. Propanetrioic acid would have H2C-C(O)-OR instead of H2C-O-C(O)-R.

I don't know what this is called.

M.A.R.

19:52

@orthocresol Oh, right

@Wildcat What the pin

Transcript for

Discussion between MAR and FFahim