שבוע טוב‏‏!

Oops, how do I make the punctuation come out right?

also, גמר חתמה טובה

toga?

:p

shavuwa3 tov

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob oops, off by one. Fixed now. :-)

Hi all. I've been participating on the Biblical Hermeneutics site, which is now having some tensions about the handling of doctrine/dogma/assertions of truth and whether it's really the neutral/pluralistic site it claims to be or if it's Christian, and what that means for my participation there. I had something of an epiphany on Rosh Hashana, and while this is in some sense a CYR situation, I'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts:

Also relevant (a parallel development), on site direction/scope: meta.hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/q/671/208

@MonicaCellio In that case, stick a right-to-left mark after it. See meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/q/111

@msh210 hmm. I typed the Hebrew (using Hod's keyboard, here in chat), then clicked the rlm button, then typed the punctuation -- and it came out as you see. I guess I'll experiment further.

Oh, maybe I needed to hit that key after the punctuation?

@MonicaCellio Yeah, after it.

@msh210 ok thanks!

@MonicaCellio What is your (or the general) impression of BH's viability, then?

@msh210 yeah, it's very frustrating. The site's charter, as well as a very upvoted meta answer, is "text, not doctrine" -- but things have been going downhill, and the moderators (sharing a common doctrine and blinders) can't see it. Belatedly I think that Jon Ericson was the person keeping the site on track, and when he started to fall away late last year things started to decline.

@MonicaCellio Shame he was hired, then. Do you think the mods, if they saw the doctrinality (if that's a word), would enforce adoctrinality (if that's a word)?

@msh210 My take is that the only way it can be viable is to be academic and neutral. There is a whole field of academia called "biblical studies" on which to model. (The "also relevant" link points to a discussion of that.) Otherwise, it should be shut down. People seeking a Christian perspective (or wanting to write one) can go to C.SE, and we've always welcomed questions from the Jewish perspective.

@msh210 I can't tell. The most-active mod (particularly when Jon was away with impending and then new twins) has been told hundreds of times what the problems are. Maybe I haven't found the magic formula to get through to him, but at some point ya gotta say that it's not all on me.

The claim has been that mods will enforce the will of the community regardless of personal position. In fact, doesn't the moderator agreement require that? So we'll see, I guess.

@MonicaCellio Community will may have shifted since those meta posts. You certainly make it sound as though it has. (Not sure what the agreement says: I forget. I just do whatever I want. :-) )

@msh210 many of the problems come in new-user posts. So, e.g., I'll edit one to fix it up, and then a doctrinal mod will roll it back. There may only be 3 or 4 people who specifically want a christian/doctrinal site, against the 18 (!) who voted on an answer saying "no".

It's sad. I've put a lot into that site, and used to encourage Jews to participate there. Now I discourage Jews from having anything to do with the place unless and until they fix this.

@MonicaCellio (Sigh.) If the mods aren't enforcing community will on a wide-ranging question of policy, it's worth bringing in SE employes to weigh in, no?

@msh210 Jon's in the loop, but we may need someone who doesn't have such a personal history with the site. I'm hoping that he can recognize the role he used to play, see the degeneration that came later, and take it on himself to speak up.

Besides, the com team is tired of hearing from me. :-(

@MonicaCellio I haven't been following it enough to say anything.

But yeah, on a personal level I'm sad that SE hired Jon, though he's good for the team as a whole. But he was also already stepping back from the site even before that; I think he realized he was dominating the content, but he may not have realized that he was the diplomat, mediator, and visionary who kept things on track.

@msh210 yeah, understood. I didn't mean to write so much here either. (You start out trying to answer a question and -- poof -- a soapbox appears under you.)

@MonicaCellio Oh, is he not active on main any longer, either? Answering questions, I mean.

@msh210 minimal. I think he still reads, but he doesn't ask and answer much.

@MonicaCellio Well, best of luck with the site. :-/ I won't say I hope it either becomes truly adoctrinal or merges/closes. The current state of affairs (as you describe it) is, I hope, as untenable as you make it out to be.

@msh210 thanks. Yeah, I hope it settles one way or the other, and soon. I would prefer that it go with the original vision so I don't lose all my work, but if it's going to be a doctrinal site, they should declare it already and not lure any more non-christians in.

@MonicaCellio Exactly. s/-c/-C/

@msh210 oh oops. That was a typo, not a dig.

@MonicaCellio I figured.

@msh210 there are other words I would use if I intended a dig. :-)

@MonicaCellio Oh, I've got to go: mincha is in 10 minutes. All the best.

@msh210 you too!