REJBAS

Beastly Gerbil

11:49 AM

Welcome all...

user189275

I am lazy; did you check that the other cube configuration except #3 is impossible ?

Beastly Gerbil

@ArbitraryKangaroo, yes and its not

Also Alconja told us it is indeed RS-03

My idea is that we need to dissemble the cubes, and that the components aren't correct

user189275

1. I find it hard to believe the among the hazy pieces in the first picture, only the key

user189275

's picture is relevant.

Feeds

Beastly Gerbil has made a change to the feeds posted into this room

Beastly Gerbil

11:59 AM

The key is suspiciously lighter and is the only key

Wait!

@ArbitraryKangaroo, I think you are on to something...

Wait no forget it

user189275

2. PZL -> Most probably puzzles. SE -> Most probably stackexchange, but what the heck is 11R ? Something important may be hiding there, or may be usual Alconja red herring.

user189275

@BeastlyGerbil: What did you found ?

Beastly Gerbil

Thought I had but hadn't

Thought the symbols on the components might relate to the symbols on the tiles

user189275

@BeastlyGerbil: Provide me the image link of PZL SE 11R. I am having trouble clicking on it.

Beastly Gerbil

user189275

12:07 PM

If you rotate the piece, and then fit, then it makes a component ~ symbol link. Most probably a red herring,

user189275

Why care about the lock and key ? It may just mean (I'm half joking) a general rule, how keys goes into locks, and may have nothing to do with the puzzle. But OP's comment in your answer probably confirm that it's a joke.

Beastly Gerbil

Definetely not

user189275

@BeastlyGerbil: What is what not ?

Beastly Gerbil

The key lock thing is important

I was told 'nice spotting' by alconja

and that symbol matches it exactly

user189275

That's what I was telling ! See the two places of the word PZL - SE - 11R in the two images, one in the link you provided, and the other in #2. It is rotated and flipped.

user189275

12:12 PM

* Not rot + flip, a single flip is sufficient.

user189275

@BeastlyGerbil: Notice the positioning of PZL-SE-11R, in the image link you provided. Notice the length of the small black box, just above it. Is it mentioned anywhere that a side of a cube is two times that length, (it may be same !. Just may have to be used four times, at different four positions)

Beastly Gerbil

So you are saying that each tile is actually 4 components?

user189275

@BeastlyGerbil: It may be. I skim while reading, so I just asked if the size of a side of the cube is assumed or mentioned somewhere.

user189275

Also, the word " flat-pack " is important.

Beastly Gerbil

That may indeed be the assumption that @Alconja was saying that everyone was making

user189275

12:21 PM

Who knows ? But, I may be wrong, as " The parts came as a pair of cubes, which opened out, ready to slot into the socket up the top... "

Beastly Gerbil

I'm going to edit that into my answer, I really think that may be it

Well done!

user189275

I may be wrong. I ain't sure.

Beastly Gerbil

The only doubt I have about it is that the key seems to be the right size compared to the lock in my answer...

And if you look at instruction 2 it seems the whole face gets a whole tile

user189275

Well, may be Alconja forgot to take the Shrink Ray emitter, which shortened the keys, which came free with that puzzle. :)

user189275

Now I'm sure I'm wrong, as I completely missed the size.

Beastly Gerbil

12:25 PM

Okay Alconja said everyone is assuming something and that is why we aren''t progressing

So we need to look at what we think we know, and see if it is actually true

user189275

List of questionable assumptions:

user189275

1. The cube size. 2. The lock-key orientation. 3. Intrepretation of X3

user189275

I'm actually pretty sure of positioning the cubes as indicated in #2 with the grey and black cubes, and the RX 03 cube's importance.

user189275

ESHT.

user189275

(I won't disclose the full form; it's nothing related to the puzzle)

user189275

12:36 PM

@BeastlyGerbil After which update Alconja commented in your answer ?

Beastly Gerbil

Most of his comments where in chat

user189275

Remember anything useful ?

Beastly Gerbil

Nothing I haven't already said

He said both partial answers are solid though, we just need to think about the assumptions made

user189275

12:56 PM

As he has purchased the puzzles, I think it's not asking for hints, if I ask him about the cube size.

user189275

@Alconja: Is the the lenght of a cube, double or same as the size occupied by the letters "PZL-SE-11R", in the first picture ?

Beastly Gerbil

@ArbitraryKangaroo, you realise he didn't actually buy the puzzles, he made them...

user189275

@BeastlyGerbil: As he purchased the rebus puzzle, along with another copy of Noslaves caculator, after reclaiming the top position as a professor after proving allegation with the word machine, I'm sure you're intrepretating it wrongly.

Alconja

:) the parts and the socket are the same scale (should both be made from 150px squares from memory, not that that particularly matters)

user189275

Esru .. OC. Fog 'n' I ... K o j. Mai..

user189275

1:06 PM

@Alconja: So Beastly's scale is right ?

Alconja

Yes.

You can treat the puzzle as though I did buy it. I.e. There's no meta tricks going on. What you see is what you get.

user189275

@Alconja The puzzle obviously did came with your profile picture preloaded, didn't it ? :). So there was three things: the main board, the two (actually three parts) cube faces, and the instructions and you threw away the instructions. Right ?

Alconja

Yep. Socket, instructions and parts are all you need. Any likeness to my profile picture is purely coincidental I'm sure ;)

Packaging is gone for I'm afraid. But you've got past the need for that already

user189275

And you threw away the instructions ? Or there were something else in the packaging, (not any cube face, otherwise I'm sure you would've posted it) and you threw it ?

Alconja

No the sheet titled rejbäs is the instructions... Don't you just hate how confusing flat pack instructions can be sometimes?

user189275

1:15 PM

I'm a bit unsure, I can't understand. (I'm not joking) The thing you threw away is not instructions or the things posed, but something different, right ?

user189275

" I didn't pay attention to where it was originally joined" What was joined with what ? (I am not asking for where, as obviously you don't know)

Alconja

Threw away the packaging. Just had the serial number on it, as indicated in step 1.

user189275

@Alconja: And the other question ?

Alconja

So bought a boxed puzzle, took out two cubes, threw away box, pulled apart cubes, posted instructions and flattened cubes.

user189275

i.e. " I didn't pay attention to where it was originally joined" What was joined with what ?

Alconja

1:19 PM

The two parts of the broken cube

3 parts, 2 cubes

user189275

The cubes were already joined and 3d when you brought it ?

Alconja

Yeah

user189275

How careless you're. Be careful next time.

user189275

:)

Alconja

:P like I said though, it's all good you guys have got past the point where that matters anyway.

Beastly Gerbil

1:22 PM

So the components might be incorrcetly flattened?

user189275

@BeastlyGerbil: ?

user189275

The cube flattening part was completely solved, and it is none but #3

Alconja

No. They're fine. I didn't break anything.

It was designed to come apart where it did

Beastly Gerbil

Okay, thats my idea vanquished

So we need to place the components on the tiles next

Alconja

...by the way, just curious (it doesn't affect the outcome, and this isn't a hint), but is it obvious that the "tiles", as you call them, are in fact holes, and you're seeing the pse background image showing through?

Beastly Gerbil

1:25 PM

No, :P

So the key thing isn't important?

Aaaah I see it now, it's a grid

user189275

Let us figure out.

user189275

@BeastlyGerbil: What is the summary of the aha moment ?

Alconja

No. It totally is, you got that bit, just was meant to be a literal socket in the page... Photoshop fail on my part then. :)

Beastly Gerbil

Maybe you could have added a shadow or something behind it...

Show its in front of it not on it

user189275

What is "literal socket" ?

user189275

1:29 PM

No wonder why the background colour seemed familiar.

Alconja

There is shadow... Anyway, not important. Carry on. :)

user189275

Ah ! Something important !

Beastly Gerbil

Really?

user189275

Someone posted "Noticed the little shapes in the background of the PSE site and wondered how you could build a puzzle around them? ". The name sounds familiar, but I have a terrible memory.

user189275

11

A: What's a good way to introduce someone to puzzle-making?

I'm not sure how representative it is of the "right" way, or even a common way, but here's the rough workflow my puzzles go through (sorry in advance for the wordiness). 1. Play to your strengths You say you don't have any programming knowledge, great! Now you know where not to start. Have a di...

Beastly Gerbil

1:32 PM

Not sure if that matters, maybe Alconja just took his own advice

Alconja

:) well spotted (though again, not a hint)

Beastly Gerbil

I feel like I'm missing something which I should get, but I've analysed every bit of instruction 2 and haven't found anything

user189275

@BeastlyGerbil What is the "shadow" part ?

Beastly Gerbil

Doesn't matter, just display

user189275

11R. It's puzzling. What's that ?

user189275

1:34 PM

11Redherrings ? Hope not.

user189275

@BeastlyGerbil: Have you seen the "key" anywhere in PSE background? Or is it manufacture modification ?

Beastly Gerbil

The key is in the background but in the grid, it is a lot lighter

user189275

@BeastlyGerbil : Where it is ? When I open puzzling.stackexchange.com , the place is overlayered.

user189275

(Add a snip)

Beastly Gerbil

What?

user189275

1:40 PM

Well, may be, I ain't so sure.

Alconja

I'm going to bed now, but I'll leave you with this... The failed assumption is so fundamental and unquestioned that no one has even mentioned it yet...

user189275

@Alconja: Wait a second.

Alconja

?

Beastly Gerbil

Okay thanks @Alconja

user189275

@Alconja So the question to be pondered is that there's a nonsensic assumption to be corrected, Right ?

Beastly Gerbil

1:49 PM

Yes

user189275

Okay.

Alconja

Well that's blocking you from getting from what's in the partial answers to the next step, yes.

Beastly Gerbil

With luck I'll have it when you wake up tommorow :P

user189275

Okay, bye. Hope it's solved.

user189275

@BeastlyGerbil: Got it ?

Beastly Gerbil

1:51 PM

No, I'm sayin I hope I get it today

Alconja

Good luck. Ping me if you have more questions and I'll get to them in the (my) morning.

user189275

2:45 PM

@BeastlyGerbil: But Alconja has probably implicitly confirmed part 1 is completely solved by graaarg, and the answer is RS-03

user189275

So the problem is with part 2.

Beastly Gerbil

Yes that is correct

user189275

@BeastlyGerbil: That might be 1. The interpretation of X3 2. Notice there is also dotted line joining the black and grey boxes in the second image of 2.

user189275

Why the dotted lines ?

Beastly Gerbil

Alconja told me that was unimportant

Already brought that up

user189275

2:49 PM

@BeastlyGerbil: Oh yeah. I just seen it.

user189275

Questionnable assumptions: i. The two cubes in #2 are RS - 03 (I am pretty sure this is right) ii. They are orderd (Unsure) iii.a Grey and Black are the top of them iii.b. respectively (Unsure both)

user189275

@BeastlyGerbil "iii" is very questionable

Beastly Gerbil

true

user189275

@Sleafar @BeastlyGerbil: Any ideas about the number in #9 ? Backtracking may work.

Beastly Gerbil

I think the instructions are in order

user189275

2:58 PM

@BeastlyGerbil: Can you create the second net ? The dots and "A" "B" "C" are probably surely important.

user189275

@BeastlyGerbil: See the difference between direction of the half moon in the net and #2

Deusovi

5:28 PM

Maybe that "unspoken assumption" is how the two views of the cube are oriented relative to each other?

Or whether they are actually two views of the same cube, and not two separate cubes (or two half-cubes)?

Beastly Gerbil

Intersting thoughts...

Deusovi

It clearly says that you can make two cubes from the materials in the box.

user189275

@Deusovi: I don't think your last sentence is right.

Beastly Gerbil

It has to be something so obvious none of us has even thought about doubting it

Deusovi

So those two views have to be visible at the same time.

(By figure 1.)

user189275

5:31 PM

@Deusovi: Alconja commented before: "So bought a boxed puzzle, took out two cubes, threw away box, pulled apart cubes, posted instructions and flattened cubes." To make RS 03 same cube with different viewpoints, you need to cut it, but #2 doesn't hints so.

Deusovi

@ArbitraryKangaroo What I'm saying is that it's not the same cube with different viewpoints.

Beastly Gerbil

I have an idea to what it might be....

user189275

@Deusovi: Then what ?

Deusovi

Maybe one L goes on top of the already completed cube? As a sort of "mask"?

user189275

@BeastlyGerbil: What idea ?

Beastly Gerbil

5:32 PM

In instruction 2 the PZL-SE-11R is at the top of the frame

But in the tiles its at the bottom

user189275

@BeastlyGerbil: I mentioned that before.

Beastly Gerbil

So maybe in instruction 2 the grid is the wrong way round

Deusovi

Oh, you think it could be flipped vertically?

Beastly Gerbil

Possibly

user189275

That's what I was telling ! See the two places of the word PZL - SE - 11R in the two images, one in the link you provided, and the other in #2. It is rotated and flipped.
* Not rot + flip, a single flip is sufficient.
[tag:repost]

Deusovi

5:33 PM

Sounds good to me.

Beastly Gerbil

Sorry, didn't understand you @ArbitraryKangaroo

Deusovi

But wait. That means the lock tile needs to be placed upside down...

!

WHAT IF THE TILES ARE PLACED UPSIDE DOWN?

We all assumed that the tiles were placed face-up.

But what if that's not the case?

That could be the "unspoken assumption" that Alconja was talking about.

Beastly Gerbil

Great idea!

user189275

@Deusovi: I checked that idea before, for around five minutes, but nothing is fitting the lock-key.

Beastly Gerbil

What would happen to the lock and key in that case

Yeah thats what I'm thinking

user189275

5:35 PM

But I might miss some key aha insight.

Deusovi

Well, if the board is flipped, then the lock and key fit perfectly when face-down.

Beastly Gerbil

Very true

user189275

Oh yeah.

user189275

I missed that.

Beastly Gerbil

Hang on I'll flip the image and post so we can see it

user189275

5:37 PM

@BeastlyGerbil: You should remove the unnecessary items, and keep only the key and grid.

Beastly Gerbil

Okay what are we thinking?

This looks more likely

user189275

@BeastlyGerbil: What do you mean ?

Deusovi

No, the board itself.

Beastly Gerbil

Oh oops :P

Deusovi

Beastly Gerbil

5:39 PM

So how are we going to get the lock key thing

Deusovi

The tiles are also placed upside-down.

user189275

@BeastlyGerbil: Curve fit backward.

Deusovi

If the board is flipped vertically and the tiles are flipped upside-down, then the configuration will be different.

Beastly Gerbil

It will be hard to reverse the tiles...

user189275

@Deusovi: They are different (vertical and upside down flipping) ?

Deusovi

5:40 PM

I think so. I might just be visualizing it incorrectly.

Yeah, vertical flip changes chirality. Upside down doesn't.

Beastly Gerbil

Deusovi

If you mirror your right hand, it becomes your left hand. If you turn it upside down, it stays your right hand.

Beastly Gerbil

Well thats the tiles flipped horizontally

Deusovi

No, BG - the tiles are supposed to be placed face down on the board (at least according to my current theory, which may very well be wrong).

And we can't really work with that without a physical copy of the tiles.

user189275

@Deusovi Drawing by hand does the trick without thinking.

user189275

5:42 PM

Oh sorry, thinking -> printing

Beastly Gerbil

I'm stuck not sure if this is right...

Deusovi

Yeah, I'm not either. But Alconja did say there was some unspoken assumption that we were missing...

user189275

Anyhow you fit, if the lock and key is matched, it should be some rotation/flipping of Beastly's current answer.

user189275

@Deusovi: You have any idea about X3 ?

Deusovi

X3?

user189275

5:44 PM

The assumptions, I'm dead sure 'bout it, are in #2 . @Deusovi See #2 firs image.

Deusovi

Of course, the positioning of "PZL-SE-11R" could be unimportant - it could just be a label.

But the fully black square makes me suspicious.

user189275

But what is 11R ? (I keep reposting same questions)

Deusovi

Random number, then R for rebus?

user189275

@Deusovi: It might be that grey square are like dash, you can fill it up with proper image.

Deusovi

True, but why the difference?

user189275

5:46 PM

What is true ?

Deusovi

Wait. Wait wait wait.

What if not all the squares on the board are filled?

Instruction 4 looks suspiciously like a sliding block puzzle solution.

user189275

@Deusovi: Excellent.

Deusovi

Maybe one square will stay empty?

user189275

But then 3 is pointless. Also, which squares would you move in 4 ?

user189275

Also, in the prelude to 1, then why thick markers are banned ?

Deusovi

5:47 PM

Nah, 3 wouldn't be pointless. We draw the lines, then rearrange the squares and it makes a different pattern.

And you'd move whichever squares work.

If it says "left", you move the one to the right of the hole left into the hole.

user189275

@Deusovi: But I don't think chopping up the square is a good idea. But it may be true. But then why the marker discrimination ?

Deusovi

Maybe the marker will obscure the dots, and the dots are important somehow?

I'm not entirely sure about the marker discrimination myself.

Beastly Gerbil

That is th best idea I've heard so far

Deusovi

But I'm definitely sure about the sliding block puzzle thing.

Which means one square has to start open.

Beastly Gerbil

Its the sort of thing Alconja would do

user189275

5:51 PM

You are sure about chopping the square

Deusovi

Potentially the dotted one?

It seems out of place.

user189275

Nope, the one's on the top maybe.

Beastly Gerbil

How about the key one?

Deusovi

You think the lock is covered?

Beastly Gerbil

We 'unlock' the square

user189275

5:52 PM

But then, why the lock-key ?

Deusovi

When we place them, we'll need one missing - probably overlapped by another one.

Beastly Gerbil

Then this is perfect!

user189275

The grey is pefect for the missing

Beastly Gerbil

Hang on I'll show you what I have for this...

Deusovi

Ooh, let me see.

I'd say so too, but there are two grays and we need only one missing square.

user189275

5:53 PM

Then the dot ?

Deusovi

Yeah, I was thinking the dot too.

user189275

graaag's answer: " I want to try treating it as a gap, and treating step 4 as instructions for a sliding brick puzzle ("slide a tile into the gap in the direction of the arrow"). The fourth arrow might mean "slide and rotate". It doesn't quite work out though. Perhaps this or a similar approach would result in the lock sliding onto the key..."

user189275

Lock sliding into the key.

user189275

??

Deusovi

Well, the key is stationary.

The lock is not.

user189275

5:55 PM

It's an excellent idea. Lock sliding into key.

user189275

(Not feasible in real life, though)

Deusovi

I think we do need to leave the grays though. Instruction 7 says we'll have to paint parts of it gray, and I think those will combine with what we already have to make a picture.

Beastly Gerbil