'Aisha said about verse 58:1 subhan Allah I was in the same room and couldn't hear what the Prophet and the woman were speaking about, but Allah could. So why should Allah not make it possible to hear a speech by all the audience? An other rather not faith based possibility is that our Messenger always used to say something like:"May the present tell the absent"

@Aboudi al-islam.org/ghadir/incident.htm "This was first time that the Muslims with this magnitude gathered in one place in the presence of their leader, the Messenger of Allah [s]. On his way to Makkah, more than seventy thousand people followed Prophet [s]. On the fourth day of Dhu'l-Hijjah more than one hundred thousand Muslims had entered Makkah."

@Medi1Saif "Upon receiving the verse, the Prophet [s] stopped on that place (the pond of Khumm) which was extremely hot. Then he sent for all people who have been ahead in the way, to come back and waited until all pilgrims who fell behind, arrived and gathered." - Saying "May the present tell the absent" does not make sense here because "he sent for all people who have been ahead in the way, to come back". There is no doubt he wanted everybody, present and absent, to hear the speech.

@Meysam I'm afraid that this might be shi'a view or narration only! And historians used to exaggerate numbers (this is still usual in cultures like the Arabic culture a high number is just used to emphasize that there were many people it doesn't necessarily give the real amount) many modern scholars and orientalists doubt the amount of people quoted in the books of early Muslim historians to some extent.

@Medi1Saif Then can you cite a reliable reference as to how many people have been gathered on that day?

@Meysam no as I never did search for that, I only wanted to say that one should have this in mind, as even in some ahadith (sunni) there are claims with very high numbers that are explained by scholars that the amount is only an indication of the importance or used to emphasize. Of course Muslim sources speak of some 100000 who have assisted fath Mekka.

@Medi1Saif If scholars exaggerate and cannot be relied on for their reports, the question is, who should we rely on?

@Meysam we should in first place relay on Allah and his Prophet

@Meysam and if we have a wroking mind use it

Hello buddy

Hello

any human being is fallible unless we have a proof

so they could exaggerate

historians were more or less story tellers

that might be a hard qualification

as they also relay on what they heard or witnessed

so there's what we may call science in their work

So we should use our mind and make a qualification if possible

not blindly follow

as we know Quran is against blindly following

And in the equal sunni narration if I'm not that wrong the prophet used this expression: of let or may the present tell the absent

but honestly I'm not looking for texts that emphasize on the superiority of one sect

or on a clash between sects

I'm happy when Muslims find consensus

in whatever matter

The point is we don't really know the knowledge that was accessible at that time

so if in a hadith they say 500000 maybe they didn't know numbers like a million or billion

as that would give more emphasize

on the "magnitude" or "dimension" of a good or evil act etc.

like when Arabs say 1000 Marhaba = 1000 WElcome

it only shows hey you are very welcome

So maybe there's a shi'a explanation for your Question

Maybe there's even a different sunni explantion as the one that came into my mind

I hope you'll get an answer

With my comments I just wanted to point at some possible Issues

As we don't have an attendance list for that

Maybe 100000 were present and somehow heard his words

maybe less

maybe some didn't hear it directly but via the intermediate of those who were close to Muhammad

@Meysam I hope I could make my point clear

@Medi1Saif That could be the reason

:)

@Medi1Saif Using the brain is the key point and everybody should do it, but sometimes it fails to answer

that's possible but no blame on it

@Medi1Saif I've always wondered how much should we trust our brain. Scientific evidence shows that brain sometimes deceives us.

@Meysam but if we turn of our brain that would be worse

@Medi1Saif Right on. I think there is no blame on someone who uses his brain and logic to conclude that God does not exist.

@Meysam that's a risky or provocative statement or do you want to change the direction of this discussion

I mean we started form question asked on a site which basically is discussing the matter of faith in Allah or God

@Medi1Saif No I do not want to change the direction. I am just emphasizing on the importance of using the brain, just like you did.

lol

:)

and you don't want by this show that I'm wrong ;)

@Medi1Saif Not at all :)

My opinion is a bit of skepticism is good

and healthy

one shouldn't take everything as true

But in faith matters

one needs a basis

that means as a Muslim I should at least believe that QUran is true

You are right

Now we can differ about hadith

I'm a person who is skeptic when it comes to them

yes I've answered a lot of questions on that topic

but i assume half of these questions where about hadiths i really consider as doubtful

and the half of the rest is basically showing that those ahadith are doubtful

;)

:D

as i often say how can sunni scholars of the 3rd century relay on ahad

while the earlier generations rejected them

and we know from generation to generation the fabrication matter increased

And the same could be said about shi'a I mean their books also have been compiled later

ok assuming they were waiting to collect all the sayings of their Imams

but I think the earliest book has been compiled in the 4th or 5th century

And the Imams with the most narrations lived in the 1st and 2nd (If ir remember well)

yes we have tawatur which may help

and yes we may have confidence in some people

but narrators are human

they hate love etc.

so they might oppose something which is the truth or compile something which is basically fabricated because they blindly trust somebody

maybe i went too far with my skepticism ;)

@Meysam bye I'll leave for now!

Oh, thank you for the chat :)