@Dennis What is ypur opinion on adding image based languages like Piet? Say as XPM3 format image becauce they can be typed out by hand fairly easily then fed through ImageMagick before going to the interpreter?

Keeping in mind that this was several months ago.

The hexdump solution is far from ideal, but it would work, I guess.

Doesn't npiet support ppm files? They are human readable I think.

Not sure, as it's been a while since I've used npiet.

There are human-readable PPM formats. They're absolutely huge, but that's probably not an issue for most Piet programs.

Just stick an It's complicated in the encoding.

It would be far less complicated with a hexdump.

Whether you take it as an xpm file or a hexdump I don't think it really matters, all it would change is whether you use ImageMagick or xxd to do conversion to the format expected by the interpreter.

xxd is easier to use and is probably already installed.

I doubt Windows comes with xxd.

I guess PPM would allow writing the code by hand, but xxd should be better for everything else.

Well getting xxd on windows is easier the getting image magick on windows

I think ImageMagick is part of the default install in WSL

xxd comes with vim afaik.

@Potato44 So is xxd

xxd also came with my bash shell, cmder.

Does TIO currently have ImageMagick installed? It is a default part of ubuntu so i wouldn't be surprised if fedora had it too.

BTW, as far as SNOBOL goes, the best implementation is probably Macro SNOBOL C

@Potato44 Appears to be installed, yes.

Doesn't install by default though. I assume this is true for Ubuntu Server as well.

@Dennis you installed imagemagick manually: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/44255?m=36557734#36557734

Right.

@Pavel @MDXF @Potato44 I'll try to add SNOBOL4, SimpleStack, and npiet tomorrow morning.

Tyvm

When did TIO first go online?

@Dennis Is this an accurate description of the technology behind tio.run#apl-dyalog? seunshare'd Dyalog 16.0 Unicode/Classic on 2 or 3 load-balanced SELinux arenas

@Adám November 12, 2015

@Dennis Thanks.

@Dennis Now get to work! Otherwise I don't know whether to write 334 or 337 on my slide! ;-)

Do what I do and write More than 333. ;)

@Adám I'd say Dyalog 16.0 Unicode/Classic in an SELinux sandbox on 4 load-balanced arenas. While TIO doesn't use the sandbox command (because it's slow), it does emulate it with seunshare.

@Dennis done

@Dennis Can you reveal anything about how much usage TIO sees?

@Adám In the past 4 weeks, TIO ran 237,088 code snippets and retrieved 62,280 results from cache.

@Dennis "Over 300,000 uses/month"

Haha, yes. For now, at least.

@Dennis Won't need it for my talk, but for my own personal interest, I'd love to see a graph of uses/month for each month

I'd have to start saving that. I gave you data for the last 4 weeks since that's what I have. Those logs alone (only the web server) weigh 240 MB, so they get pruned periodically.

@Dennis No worries. But it is going up right?

Actually, it's been declining in the past 4 weeks. Usage doubled when TIO hit Hacker News, so that might just be the rebound from that.

@Dennis Oh, ok.

Also, people are going back to school...

That too. But HN is definitely able to make an impact. Usage literally doubled over night.

@Adám I think TIO usage is largely based on ppcg usage, which is known to go down during the summer and then increase in the fall again.

@Pavel tio.run/##K87LT8rPMfn/38nV3dOPi9M/NCQgNETBVkHdIzUnJ19HITy/…

@MDXF tio.run/##K87MLchJLS5JTM7@///Qao/UnJx8HYXw/KKcFMVDu///BwA

Btw compilation printed a lot of warnings. The sign differences and parens suggestions may be safe to ignore, but the lack of a return statement in int implicit_input(int, int) is undefined behavior.

@Dennis BEGIN isn't needed, and the Hello, World! I found on Wikipedia didn't include it, but I can't say which way is more idiomatic for a language from almost five decades ago.

It looks weird without BEGIN.

Imho anyway.

Oh hey, mandatory indentation was apparently a thing decades before Python.

Source code formatting used to be rather strict.

@Dennis Do you know how many uses APL saw?

Difficult to say as the new permalink format doesn't show the language anymore.

Better logging might be good to have in the future.

@Dennis Btw, the new format has two hashes ##. Some programs, like MS Office chop URLs before the second hash, apparently reasoning that that is a bookmark, and the rest is garbage.

Great...

I have had to use a URL shortener to include links in my PowerPoint slides.

You can replace the second # with %23.

Oh, right. Didn't think of that.

Or both, but that breaks caching.

@Dennis Even better ;-)

Why is downloading the same HTML page twice better? :P

@Dennis Wait, which caching? The browser's or TIO's?

The browser's.

Everything before # is the URL known to the browser. All TIO requests are now to https://tio.run/, so every permalink lets you fetch the HTML page from cache. With %23 (or the old /nexus/<language> format), you download the page for each permalink (or each language).

@Dennis Oh :-(. I want to show the audience the effect of clicking Execute, so I've stored URLs that I've never run…

I'm not sure I understand the problem.

@Dennis As part of my presentation, I'll click links in my PowerPoint slide. I've made sure to use uncached TIO URLs so that TIO will not bring the result up upon page load. This way, I can click Execute and the audience can see the Output appear.

So you wanted to use %23 to break the cache? Yeah, that doesn't work.

@Dennis No worries. It is easy to add a trailing space and get a new URL.

@Dennis Works like a charm.

@Dennis Can you please, pretty please add Chef to TIO? There is a perl interpreter here

@Dennis Could you pull Husk, please?

@Zgarb Done.

Thanks!

sudo cpan Acme::Chef should install it, chef should be in the $PATH.

maybe add a button to choose a random language

@NieDzejkob Sounds easy enough. I'll add it to my list.

Thanks in advance!

@HusnainRaza I'm not sure what purpose that would serve.

Also, I think Haskell is in the "practical" category by mistake

I think the Haskellers would disagree.

That's the sad world we live in ;)

@Adám write code that wasnt executed ever before, dont click execute, copy link from the share button on the right, voila

cannot read from `code.png'; reason: unknown PPM format

Sounds legit.

Is that an error message from npiet?

Yes. Human error on my part, but the unknown PPM format message really should have changed when they enabled PNG and GIF support.

Have you decided on the input method for piet yet?

I'm going with hexdumps, so all formats can be supported.

Also useful for byte counts.

@Potato44 tio.run/##ldLNTgMhEAfwu0/…

Nice. Does npiet do format autodetection?

Are the ImageMagick tools on the path?

@Potato44 Yes. It also tries to guess the codel size, but that can be overridden.

@Potato44 Yes, they come from a system package.

@Dennis thanks

@NieDzejkob tio.run/…

and you didn't even use the cake recipe :( Thanks a lot!

@Dennis Hey, you added Chef. I was wondering about that.

Oh, and time to update my slide's number of languages…