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4:00 PM
so by realism do you mean the "belief that reality exists independently of observers"
or logical realism?
Wikipedia has 20 different types of realism
 
user131753
I mainly provided those links because they contain one of the most extensive discussion by @user21820 regarding his viewpoint on the "concrete justification" of Peano Arithmetic.
 
@user170039 It's honestly very enlightening to know that you actually want to know the position of a realist in detail. I'll say that, yes I am a realist, but I acknowledge that we (almost surely) cannot have 100% exact knowledge so I'm willing to settle for empirical verification in the sense stated in my MO post.
I'm also not a typical mathematical realist that you might find, because I do not think the mathematical world is real besides being a product of human minds.
@DavidReed I'm of this kind.
 
is math created or discovered?
 
@DavidReed Mathematics in the sense of the human activity is created by humans. But I believe that classical logic applies absolutely and without exception to reality.
 
user131753
If @DavidReed and @user21820 don't mind then can we do this discussion in the Philosophy of Mathematics room?
 
4:13 PM
@user170039 I thought you said I was not interested in Philosophy of Mathematics, and you removed me as owner.
 
I think I'm losing my mind
 
user131753
@user21820 I didn't.
 
@DavidReed What's going on?
@user170039 Oh then what's this:
 
user131753
@user21820: I was responding to your "I was not interested in Philosophy of Mathematics" part.
 
Hey what was that earlier when like 5 ppl simultaneously hijacked the room about constructive criticism
 
4:17 PM
@DavidReed: To expand on what I said about classical logic, see this:
6
A: Is Godel's modified liar an illogical statement?

user21820Your question has two main facets. The first is that you did not grasp the way logic does not fall to the liar paradoxes. The second is that there are deeper reasons as to why we have such apparently innocuous sentences in natural language that seem to defy assimilation into formal logic systems....

In particular, statements that can be justified to be about reality necessarily must obey classical logic.
 
I shall read it
 
That is in the first place a justification of classical logic; it explains why it works in the real world.
 
please advise @LeakyNun I am displeased with him
 
@DavidReed Eh? What did he do?
@DavidReed I see nobody saying anything in Constructive Feedback, much less LeakyNun.
This is strange, are you sure you're not dreaming something?
 
What he did was not read the formula i made for him
while during opioid withdrawal
 
4:22 PM
Lol calm down; he does not read a lot of things I tell him to either.
 
and then when he entered the room I said hey scroll up I put it there for you
hasn't replied in any fashion
 
@LeakyNun: You better go and read David's hard work, before he gets mad at you.
But seriously, you shouldn't get mad at him.
 
I'm not mad
i'm confused
 
I can't read his mind but he likes to learn things his own way.
Often more than half the questions he asked me could have been answered if he had just read what I told him to.
But the other questions he asked are often interesting ones that I have never thought of.
So okay. Haha..
 
Hey how do I block a user?
I know I've seen it somwehre
 
4:40 PM
@DavidReed I recommend that you do not do such a thing, because once you do it you will totally not get notified of any messages from them anymore until you explicitly undo the block, which also means that even if they wish to apologize to you in the future you will never see it.
As for myself, I don't even block cranks because I want to know the cranky stuff they are pushing so that I can delete/counter them appropriately.
 
@user21820 Maybe its because I didn't sleep, my net impression was he was being sarcastic
 
@DavidReed I think it's your sleep. I didn't get that impression at all, and was honestly shocked at your response.
Why don't you take a break for a while? Get some fresh air? You apologized already, so there's nothing more you can do for now.
 
Just the notion I wouldn't be able to find my way back to the chatroom or know to press the back button on my browser
 
I had the impression that user thought you accidentally pressed the back button or Backspace, and so if CRUDE was the previous URL before Logic (which sounds plausible) then you would be plucked out of here and put into CRUDE.
Never mind the details; what's done is done. I do suggest you get some rest, though! =)
 
That's not what happened
 
4:50 PM
Okay then you better get your computer checked. Did you run MBAM like I suggested?
 
Not yet
hey which one was the infinite energy symbol user?
 
@user76284 and he's here right now.
 
that's why I asked :)
@user76284 hey there
@user76284 what was the name of that theorem you brought up yesterday again?
 
Anyway I've got to go. Feel free to continue, but since this is my chat-room, please keep to logic, and no objectionable language. =)
 
When did i use objectionable language?
 
4:58 PM
@DavidReed A lot of people who come in here use it now and then. If they don't remove it themselves, I would. Just making my expectations clear, that's all!
(I don't recall whether you used it in here before or not.)
Anyway, @user76284, there is something to be said about the physical limitations of the universe implying that even PA does not have a real world interpretation in an exact sense.
8
Q: What are the arguments for and against "one true arithmetic"?

carrotomatoThis question was born out of a discussion Is the real number structure unique? on Math SE, but since it is more philosophical than mathematical I decided to ask here. From Gödel completeness and incompleteness theorems, assuming the standard axioms of math being consistent, the set of natural n...

Feel free to comment about it here, and I'll respond next time.
See you both!
 
5:34 PM
@user21820 how do you prove the internal necessity?
of the provability predicate in PA
 
6:36 PM
@LeakyNun Did you see the sub(s,c,d) I posted in here for you
what do you mean internal necessity?
 
6:49 PM
@DavidReed |- Bew(X) -> Bew(Bew(X))
 
Bew(x) does that mean there is a proof of x?
 
@DavidReed It was Rice's theorem.
 
7:05 PM
@DavidReed yes
 
noonononon
You wanted to have your work on his theorem evaluated, but you said something else about infinity machine or something along those lines
I'm putting this back up here for you to see
 
7:27 PM
@DavidReed could you link me to a proof of that?
 
7:58 PM
@LeakyNun you there
@LeakyNun I've tried to get it to you all day
 
eh
I mean, I believe that sub is feasible
 
leaky
do I have your undivided attention
@LeakyNun do I have your undivided attention
It's not only feasible but fully rigorous
my guess is there are certain prereq functions you would like to understand better
along with definition by cases
@LeakyNun I can't link it to you. I typed it up last night, and now its gone
I'll retype it and put it up on the site as a question
 
8:15 PM
it can’t be gone
it’s always in the history
 
I'm just going to put a fuller version on the site
 
9:15 PM
@DavidReed do you have a proof of |- Bew(X) -> Bew(Bew(X)) though?
 
possibly
right now I'm trying to get this up
 
ok thanks
oh god @DavidReed I'm so sorry I just read the conversation above
I was at school the whole day
13 hours ago, by David Reed
Letting $quo(x,y)$ be$ x/y$, $lh(s)$ defined to be the length of the sequence,

$ent(s,i)$ the ith member of the sequence coded for by S


$\pi(n)$ the nth prime counting 2 as the $0th$





$$
sub(s,c,d,0):=
\begin{cases}
s & \quad ,fst(s)\neq c\\
\\
qou\left(s,3^c\right)3^d & \quad ,fst(s) = c \\
\end{cases}
$$

$ \\ $

$$
sub(s,c,d,i')=
\begin{cases}
sub(s,c,d,i) & \quad ent(s,i)\neq c \\
\\
quo\bigg(sub(s,c,d,i),\pi(i+1)^c\bigg)\pi(i+1)^d & \quad ent(s,i) = c
\end{cases}
$$


Then $$sub(s,c,d):=sub(s,c,d,lh(s))$$
it's this one right?
@DavidReed I wasn't in good condition for the whole day
bear in mind that I'm in UK, so when you ask me whether I am still awake, I'm literally sitting on my bed having no energy to go to my laptop to answer you, although it's only a foot away
I stayed up till 5 and my body forced me to sleep for like 3 hours
then it was school
 
9:46 PM
no worries man
its almost done
i did much more on the site
 
link?
@DavidReed how do you do the encoding?
nvm, I can see it
thanks for the rigorous construction
 
hey i just posted it for you
0
A: The infamous sub(s,c,d)

David ReedNote: Most of these are from Boolos' "Computability and Logic". It is going to be strongly assumed here that one is familiar with properties of recursive functions and relations. I will define these functions and leave it to the reader to verify they are recursive: $ \\ $ quo(x,y) to be the quo...

get a screenshot before they take it down
 
10:03 PM
why would they take it down?
 
idk man they're not fond of posts like these
 
but they won't take it down
you're being overly cynical of this site
they don't take down chat messages, chat messages don't disappear, and they don't take down things you put on the site, unless they're spam or obscene
 
I'm going off recent experience
 
at most they close your question, but everything you write will still be there
what's your recent experience?
 
all they do in crude all day man is vote down and delete
irregrdess
 
10:05 PM
well...
did they delete your questions?
 
ive never had it deleted
only closed
 
exactly
 
but...
they delete them nonstop
if you go in there....you'll see "tagged for deletion" written a million times
 
wait where's the real version
o_o
nvm
@DavidReed what is $\xi$?
 
meants the greatest
like the greatest z less than or equal to
mu means the least
thanks for the upvote
 
10:17 PM
will you be doing the internal necessity?
 
I'm a little beat for now man
I didn't sleep last night
 
ok
 

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