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05:18
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A: Are countries that have kings and queens empirically freer and more socially just than countries that don't?

SklivvzYes, the top countries in social justice, happiness, freedom and equality are mostly the specified constitutional monarchies. Caveat: the specified top countries might not be a good sample of constitutional monarchies. Second caveat: at best, if they were a representative sample, this would sti...

If Finland and Iceland are doing as well as Norway, Sweden and Denmark, it might be something Nordic rather than the head of state
Thank you, so far, but I think you're missing a part of a good answer. How many on the lower ends of these lists are "constitutional monarchies" or something close to it? That would show there's no correlation at all. Remember, Fry's words only list those countries as examples. They may be cherry picked.
@fredsbend I think you are overextending the claim. I'm quite confident that the claim refers to seeing those countries on the top of this kind of charts and not to studies on the correlation of monarchy and freedom index. :-)
@Sklivvz Then your answer should not offer it as a correlation. If Fry had not said "empirical" I would have left it alone. But using that word, I expect he meant to point out a real correlation. If you believe that instead of what my question says, that he meant "The top countries in social justice are mostly constitutional monarchies" then that should be in your answer as well.
@fredsbend better?
05:18
Yes, thank you, and I'll give you an upvote too. But I still think a complete answer would determine if any at the middle or bottom of those lists are also "constitutional monarchies", thereby showing if there is a real correlation.
"Yes, the top countries in social justice are mostly constitutional monarchies" -- That's not really an answer to the claim, is it? This shows that the "best" countries have constitutional monarchies, but that could be caused (for instance) by a majority of all countries ("good" and "bad") being constitutional monarchies. I think a proper analysis would look at all constitutional monarchies, versus all other types of governments, and compare their average freedom/justice/"good"ness, rather than looking at just the "best" countries.
@Flimzy that's what the data says, sorry I couldn't find studies that match the question exactly! Do you have any suggestions?
The question is "Are monarchies more socially just than other countries ?". You provide an answer to the question "Are countries that are more socially just than others monarchies ?" This is totally backwards.
@undu the OP did not agree with you, however I tried to reword better.
How does this address the question?
05:18
@fredsbend the difficulty is that the original quote can be read in (at least) two valid ways. One is your (and Flimzy's) reading - that there is correlation. The other reading is that the top countries for freedom are, in general, monarchies - and that's what Sklivvz has so ably confirmed.
@Energy Fry clearly and purposefully says "empirically" implying a real correlation. I think a complete answer should address that.
@Flimsy That seems to be the best way to calculate the correlation itself, however, I think just seeing how many constitutional monarchies are at the middle or bottom of the lists is easier and pragmatically answers the question.
@Sklivvz I appreciate the current edit clarifications. Thank you. It's whether these countries are a representative sample that I still believe needs to be addressed in a complete answer.
@fredsbend no, that's not what "empircally" means. "Empirically" just means it's derived from observation. Fry doesn't make any claim of representativeness. That's something that's superimposed by some readers.
@fredsbend and I'm not sure what you mean in your question by "someone of his calibre". You know what the Dictionary of National Celebrity said about him, right?
@Energy We can be pedantic about this if you want, but I contend that it is not unreasonable to believe he's referring to a real correlation.
And let's not make this about opinions of Fry. Let's keep this about the claim.

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