12:10 AM
Rest In Peace:
Have you heard this news?
I am wondering who will maintain his projects and sites.

@MoneyOrientedProgrammer The last item of News says that the project is for sale. Since it was never open source, it's really hard to say how it will be maintained if at all.

@AlanMunn I see. Thank you! :-)

@MoneyOrientedProgrammer I suspect the user base was also very small; we rarely got questions on the site about it, for example. And given that the big distributions are free, most people were probably not willing to pay for it.
@MoneyOrientedProgrammer It used to be Windows only too, I think, although that changed at some point.

@AlanMunn By the way, I purchased it in about 2006-2009. It was difficult to update the installed packages so I have abandoned it unused anymore. :-)

@MoneyOrientedProgrammer Last time I tried it, it didn't work with LuaLaTeX, but it was pretty fast with pdfLaTeX. Curious software

12:22 AM
@MoneyOrientedProgrammer Interesting. Did you like it when it worked?

@DavidCarlisle and/or @egreg -- Can you please take a look at https://tex.stackexchange.com/q/584885 ? lt asks about a problem with the amsmath \text macro and a macro from another package intended to use lining figures. It looks to me like a problem with the 4-way processing of \text; the error message I get is this: ! Argument of \exfs@next has an extra }.
<inserted text>
\par
l.10 $\text{\lstyle 123}$

@AlanMunn: Yes, for drawing it is very useful because I can see the result immediately.
@JairoA.delRio I see. :-)

@MoneyOrientedProgrammer Yes, that makes sense. So it would compile pstricks in real time for you.

I am leaving... Thank you everyone!

12:45 AM
@barbarabeeton looks mostly a cfr issue, but seems a bit odd...

6 hours later…
6:45 AM
Hey. I have a question.
I'm writing an equation using  but it's too long. So long that it crosses the right edge of the paragraph.
I don't want it to cross the edge, and instead resume from the next line.
How can I do this?
I was thinking that it should be automatic, but it apparently isn't?
Never mind, I got it.

2 hours later…
8:24 AM

8:55 AM
@UlrikeFischer @samcarter_waiting_for_summer is the virtual DANTE meeting free to attend?

@PauloCereda yes at least I didn't see anything that suggested otherwise

@UlrikeFischer ooh thanks, should I ask Martin?

@PauloCereda simply fill in the form...

@UlrikeFischer ooh

9:33 AM
@UlrikeFischer don't give him such complicated instructions.

@DavidCarlisle quack

@DavidCarlisle "ask a great linguist to fill the form for you" ?

9:59 AM
@UlrikeFischer speaking of linguists is puenc-greek.def a gift or a Trojan horse?
@UlrikeFischer I'd drop the hyperref one but greek-fontenc is just in collection-langgreek and we need the math Greek at least....

@DavidCarlisle yes, I think we should rename into puenc-greekbasic for now, and then discuss with the greek maintainer later.

@UlrikeFischer any other pending hyperref thiings we should do now, or just that?

@DavidCarlisle ooh tikzhorses

@barbarabeeton As far as I can see, it has never worked inside \text, so it's in some way good news.

@DavidCarlisle there is the pull request with the documentation improvements. I can look at it in the afternoon.

10:08 AM
@egreg I had a quick look last night but it was late it wasn't immediately clear why it failed, \text isn't really a lot more than a \mathchoice/\hbox construct is it?
@UlrikeFischer ah yes OK thanks I'm about to go offline but should be back later as well.

@DavidCarlisle What happens is that somehow the list of possible variants is exhausted too early and the macro \exfs@next is called over an empty \tempa.

1 hour later…
11:34 AM
@MarcelKrüger intopdf will also need an adaption to the pdfmanagement. The hyperref code will not work with the new driver, \@pdfhighlight and \@urlbordercolor etc are no longer there.

11:48 AM
@Ulrike, I want to insert the BDC via the reverse <object number> --> <object name> relationship, as in the following code. But unfortunately I get an error: You can't use \relax' after \the. Would you please help me make this working?
\RequirePackage{pdfmanagement-testphase}

\documentclass{article}

\begin{document}

\ExplSyntaxOn
\pdf_object_new:nn{testname}{dict}
\pdf_object_write:nx{testname}{/MCID~0}
\tl_gset:cx{\pdf_object_ref_last:}{testname}
\pdf_bdcobject:nn{/Span}{\tl_use:c{\pdf_object_ref_last:}}
abc
\pdf_emc:
\ExplSyntaxOff

\end{document}

@AlexG Hm, I have no idea what you don't use {testname} as argument directly. But beside this: you need to expand the argument, you shouldn't use a slash before Span, and you should give your tl name which follows the expl3 guide line:
\RequirePackage{pdfmanagement-testphase}

\documentclass{article}

\begin{document}

\ExplSyntaxOn
\pdf_object_new:nn{testname}{dict}
\pdf_object_write:nx{testname}{/MCID~0}
\tl_gset:cn{g_alexg_\pdf_object_ref_last: _tl}{testname}
\exp_args:Nnx
\pdf_bdcobject:nn{Span}{\tl_use:c{g_alexg_\pdf_object_ref_last: _tl}}
abc
\pdf_emc:
\ExplSyntaxOff

\end{document}

12:14 PM
@UlrikeFischer Thank you. This works. I tried a similar thing with \cs_generate_variant:Nn\pdf_bdcobject:nn{nx} which did not work (why?). The leading slash was a typo here. Any tl name should work (be non-fatal), I think. At least for demonstration purposes. I cannot use the name directly without significant code change, object generation and BDC insertion occur at very different places (And my BDC insertion command took the PDF object ref as second arg.)
Thank you once more, \exp_args:Nnx is new for me and very useful.

12:55 PM
@PauloCereda Yes, an email said "Eine Anmeldung wird kostenfrei möglich sein" (registration will be free of charge) You can find the registration page at dante.de/veranstaltungen/dante2021/anmeldung

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer ooh

@PauloCereda It looks as if the timetable is very Brazilian-friendly - all talks are in the (european) afternoon or evening

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer OOH
@samcarter_waiting_for_summer now I need to decypher the fields :)

@PauloCereda wait a sec, I'll send you something

1:00 PM
@samcarter_waiting_for_summer ooh

(all the long text at the end of the site is about voting during the general assembly)
@PauloCereda ^^^ I hope this helps. Please let me now if there is anything else to translate

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer OH MY I WUB YOU

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer @PauloCereda or simply write in the large "Bermerkung" field, "Help me, I'm Paulo Cereda, and I want to come too ..." ;-)

@UlrikeFischer ooh a help line :)

@AlexG \cs_generate_variant:Nn \pdf_bdcobject:nn {nx} \pdf_bdcobject:nx ... works too, \exp_args is only shorter. Perhaps you had a typo somewhere. And regarding the tl_name: you are defining \1 0 R, and if someone else would do that too, you would get chaos. So locally it is fine to use this (or \blub or \zzz) but in public code it is better to clean this up.

1:11 PM
@UlrikeFischer You forgot the most important information: Help me, I'm a duck and want to come :)

@UlrikeFischer @samcarter_waiting_for_summer done!
@samcarter_waiting_for_summer /quacks in German

@PauloCereda Yeah!!!

1:27 PM
No confirmation email so far...

@PauloCereda I didn't get one neither. Don't worry we will get you in ...

@UlrikeFischer ooh

@PauloCereda Me neither, and I registered yesterday already.

@DavidCarlisle now we need a german language day ...

@MarcelKrüger oh

1:28 PM
@UlrikeFischer opening day of dante meeting?

@DavidCarlisle that would be perfect <--- @Skillmon

1 hour later…
2:57 PM
Hi good morning
I noticed something strange with my browser today and tex.sx. For some reason or the other, the Accept All Cookies loads every time I open a page. Its quite strange.

@azetina well it's 3 in the afternoon, but hi :-)

Hi David good afternoon.

@azetina no cookie questions here so it sounds like a local issue in your browser cookie cache

I see. Ok. Was just wondering. I will see what I can do to fix the cookie issue.
Thanks
Just blocked the codesnipet on my browser :)

3 hours later…
5:50 PM
@UlrikeFischer I don't understand.

@Skillmon you need to follow up the comments (but basically it is about the german translation of learnlatex)

@Skillmon the full marathi translation landed today (which is Marathi language day)

which reminds me: Mark, all ye faithful: Monday is St. David‘s Day!
2

@UlrikeFischer Found the opacity issue :)

@JosephWright yes, saw it, I already put on my todo-list to redo all the pdf related tests ;-)

6:03 PM
@UlrikeFischer I might move l3opacity to l3experimental, now it's usable

@PauloCereda @DavidCarlisle Not only can you not get out of it, you apparently can't get into it either.
0

I have attempted to install vim-latex (Latex-suite) with Pathogen, though I seem to have (at least partially failed). I followed the instructions given in the answer here, though upon following them, help: latex-suite.txt yields the message E149: Sorry, no help for latex-suite.txt, which seems to...

@JosephWright fine with me (as I'm already using it ;-))

@UlrikeFischer Leave it to me :)

6:19 PM
@AlanMunn ooh

@UlrikeFischer Probably we should add the PDF management code to the test set up first

@JosephWright ah right, the testsuite runs without it. But then we also need the regressiontest code so that you don't use \pdfinfo etc.

Dante has already the programme fixed...

@UlrikeFischer So update l3build first
@PauloCereda Ooog

@JosephWright dunno it's German :)
@JosephWright hold on :)
Das neue PDF Resource Management
Ulrike Fischer
ooh
Panda, Nilpferd & Co: Neuigkeiten aus dem TikZ Zoo
samcarter
ooh
TopTeX – eine Q&A Seite für TEX
samcarter
ooh
Das neue -> The new
ooh German skills

6:44 PM
@PauloCereda (but only nueter. it could also be "der neue" or "die neue" :p

@Plergux ooh

@UlrikeFischer Closing all the hyprref bugs?

@JosephWright you are not the only one who can do cleanups!

7:02 PM
@PauloCereda Ohh, on their way to the duck pond!
@PauloCereda I think not totally fixed, the agenda was distributed as preliminary
@Plergux I'm sure that's the reason why Paulo used -> instead of <->

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer quite possibly. what can I say, I'm a smartarse :p

@Plergux being something else would be sooo boring :D

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer heh heh heh... absolutely. :p
Needed the tip of my arrow to go a little bit into the node instead of ending at the edge of it like the default. Found out I could do it with \draw[-latex,shorten >=-5pt]. LaTeX, you silly! :p

1 hour later…
8:37 PM
When will TeX, version 3.141592653, January 2021, be incorporated in engines pdfTeX, XeTeX, LuaTeX etc? When will all this be in TeX Live? Will it take more than two years? ;-)

9:09 PM
@DavidCarlisle yes, I know. But there is no German-language day to my knowledge, so I have still enough time left :)

@UlrichDiez I have it:
This is pdfTeX, Version 3.141592653-2.6-1.40.22 (TeX Live 2021/W32TeX)

9:30 PM
@DavidCarlisle could you test in tl21 in hyperref l3build check test1 ? I get a failure for luatex because of different line breaks and wonder if it is local.

@Skillmon suggestion was opening day of dante meeting would be a suitable occasion
@UlrikeFischer er OK...
unrelated I just finally regained access to latexcgi.xyz (I was a bit worried I'd painted myself into a corner:-)

@DavidCarlisle ups.

@DavidCarlisle lol?

@UlrikeFischer I had some modrately paranid inbound filters set up at aws only allowing access from certain ip ranges (which I'd forgotten about) .. and my ISP gave me an updated router and a new ip address .... and today was first time I tried to log in...

@DavidCarlisle and how do you managed to get in?

9:44 PM
@UlrikeFischer finally remembered, so logged in to my aws web account and managed to find my way back to the security settings and allowed access from my current ip address, then I let myself in:-)

@DavidCarlisle ;-)

@UlrikeFischer running l3build check on master (after git pull...)
which ones failed for you?
oh you said already, test1
@UlrikeFischer I am running the full set but test1 failed in luatex already

@DavidCarlisle so it is not only me. Is the diff because of line breaks?

first block is as below, have they given up honouring the line length at all that will be "interesting" have you tried the 2e test suite??? (@JosephWright)
! (hyperref)             text {\ifnum 1>\c@secnumdepth \else \protect \numberline {\csname thesection\endcsname }\fi Test section}
(hyperref)             reference {section.5}
(hyperref)             toclevel {1}
(hyperref)             type {toc}.
--- 99,106 ----
Package hyperref Info: Reference (link) section.6' on input line ....
Package hyperref Info: bookmark on input line ...:
(hyperref)             thecounter {1.1}
! (hyperref)             text {\ifnum 1>\c@secnumdepth \else \protect \numberline
@UlrikeFischer maybe if l3build was refactored it would automatically adjust to random changes in luatex log output
@UlrikeFischer only that one test failed, and only line breaks

10:00 PM
@DavidCarlisle ;-) I was quite grateful that I don't get l3build notifications.

@DavidCarlisle I'd seen that: I'll wait a little then take a look
@DavidCarlisle I do wonder what's gone on: I could ask Hans, I suppose ...

@JosephWright nothing obvious in the changelog

@DavidCarlisle I did run a few tests, and get a number of failures. Some of them look like the line break failure in hyperref:
***** ..\BUILD\TEST\github-0199.luatex.tlg
5:  (ly1xenc.def)
6:  LaTeX Font Info:    Trying to load font information for LY1X+lmr on input line ....
7:  (ly1xlmr.fd))
***** ..\BUILD\TEST\GITHUB-0199.LUATEX.LOG
5:  (ly1xenc.def)
6:  LaTeX Font Info:    Trying to load font information for LY1X+lmr on input line ...
7:  112.
8:  (ly1xlmr.fd))
*****
But there are also other types.

@DavidCarlisle But then this sort of thing never gets mentioned

@JosephWright one lives in hope

10:08 PM
another one:
    4:  Package: github-0052-test ....-..-.. 1.1 Teckids Te^^cf^^87/L^^e1^^b4^^acT^^e1^^b4^^87X style
4:  Package: github-0052-test ....-..-.. 1.1 Teckids Teχ/LᴬTᴇX style
and a number of those:
***** ..\BUILD\TEST\github-0049b.luatex.tlg
962:  ......\vbox(8.49998+3.49998)x0.0, direction TLT
963:  ......\hbox(0.0+0.0)x0.0, shifted -2.5, direction TLT
964:  .....\mathoff
***** ..\BUILD\TEST\GITHUB-0049B.LUATEX.LOG
962:  ......\vbox(8.49998+3.49998)x0.0, direction TLT
963:  ......\hbox(0.0+0.0)x0.0, direction TLT
964:  .....\mathoff
*****

@UlrikeFischer I wonder if the box isn't shifted, or just not logged as shifted...

@UlrikeFischer HAs the appearance changed?

@JosephWright I'm just trying to find that out.

@UlrikeFischer Cool
@DavidCarlisle We've had previous 'fun' ...

10:26 PM
@JosephWright yes, just looked at the source, I don't see obvious change re max_print_line but there are several changes in that general area all referencing tex-implementers list:
/*tex
putting a character in front of a macro trace (feature suggested by PO on
tex implementor list
*/

@JosephWright the following show the diff but the pdf seems to be fine, the stream is the same:
\RequirePackage{expl3}
\ExplSyntaxOn
\pdf_uncompress:
\ExplSyntaxOff

\documentclass{article}
\begin{document}\showoutput

\big(A big ( at the start and \big) in the middle of a paragraph.

\end{document}
@DavidCarlisle who is PO?

@UlrikeFischer no idea, @barbarabeeton says I'm barred from that email list.
@PhelypeOleinik came to mind though.... we could blame him.

@DavidCarlisle -- You're not barred from the list. Have you tried to subscribe to it? If you have, and failed, I will get you subscribed. (I know the administrator; it's not me, so I can't do it, although I set up the very first list in the 1980s, and included everyone who was actively "implementing" TeX on some different architecture at the time. You weren't then.)

@barbarabeeton no I haven't even tried, I took such offence at you saying I was ornery:-)
@barbarabeeton ooh I just got mail:-)

@DavidCarlisle -- Well, that's usually true, but it wasn't meant unkindly. Just a statement of fact.

10:41 PM
@barbarabeeton I know sorry just descending to usual level of banter here..
Feb 1 '19 at 21:59, by David Carlisle
@manooooh as a general rule, if you are not sure what someone means when chatting here just assume they are being rude about me. Chances are you will be correct.

@DavidCarlisle -- You really do want to look at the messages in tex-implementors on the subject (involving \par) proposed by Petr Ol\v{s}ak. It looks like Hans has gone ahead and installed it in LuaTeX. I think there's merit in the basic idea, but also think it needs a bunch more careful consideration before incorporating it in any production version of the engine. As has already been pointed out by someone on the list -- *Not for 2021 TeX Live"!

@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright I just tried the pdfresource test, and there I have a failure with xelatex:
   3:  Missing character: There is no λ in font [lmroman10-regular]:mapping=tex-text;!
3:  Missing character: There is no λ (U+03BB) in font [lmroman10-regular]:mapping=t
Why do people try to improve log-messages ;-(
@DavidCarlisle but beside the test failure hyperref looks ok? I did build it on tl20 and could upload it.

@UlrikeFischer yes I looked at the diff, and it looked ok and the tests passed, apart from the one that failed so Ok I think

@DavidCarlisle apart from the manifest file ;-(

10:56 PM
@UlrikeFischer spotted before or after a ctan upload?

@DavidCarlisle before

@UlrikeFischer build.lua also has puenc-greek

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer so I still have some time left :)

@DavidCarlisle thanks just in time ;-)

11:04 PM
@barbarabeeton ah that will be "PO", although these are different changes, yes some of the \par messages were forwarded to me before.

@DavidCarlisle -- Yes. I do some things with \par (and \endgraf) that I think wouldn't survive the proposed change (although I obviously haven't tried), and might be able to come up with a few tests. And there are some situations in which the proposed change might make some of my machinations unnecessary. But now is not the time to hurry it through. I would also like to hear an opinion from DRF.