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3:18 AM
@Speravir The proper remark for documents using silence comes from the package code itself: “None survived. This is a violent world”
:-)
@PabloGonzálezL Hello :-)
 
4:11 AM
@PhelypeOleinik Hola :)...
 
 
1 hour later…
5:31 AM
Hi @PhelypeOleinik. I'm been reading about your President. He sounds absolutely horrendous. Commiserations. If you've been keeping up with the news, you know we have our troubles here too. Greetings from the other side of the planet. :-)
 
 
2 hours later…
7:24 AM
@DavidCarlisle @UlrikeFischer I left a "small" comment at (github.com/latex3/hyperref) ...have a nice day...Saludos
 
7:44 AM
Hi guys, anybody with an updated TL could test something for me?
 
@PauloCereda Hola
__(.)< __(.)> __(.)=
\___) \___) \___)
 
@PabloGonzálezL ooh hola (")>/
 
yo tengo TL actualizado
 
Buenos dias, amigo!
 
Buenos dias ;)
 
7:46 AM
Mi español no es bueno, es muy terrible. :)
 
Jejej...I have an updated TL (fedora 31)
 
YES FEDORA 31
:)
@Pablo could you test something for me?
@Pablo open a terminal and run texplate.
I think Karl forgot to add the x flag for us...
 
Give me a minute.
 
@PabloGonzálezL Gracias. :)
 
@PauloCereda (user and root) -bash: /usr/local/texlive/2019/bin/x86_64-linux/texplate: Permiso denegado
 
7:51 AM
@PabloGonzálezL Ah muchas gracias indeed! Got the same output.
 
[root@worktex ~] # chmod +x /usr/local/texlive/2019/bin/x86_64-linux/texplate
[root@worktex ~] # texplate
______ __ __ ___ __
/\__ _\ /\ \ /\ \ /\_ \ /\ \__
\/_/\ \/ __ \ `\`\/'/' _____\//\ \ __ \ \ ,_\ __
\ \ \ /'__`\`\/ > < /\ '__`\\ \ \ /'__`\ \ \ \/ /'__`\
\ \ \/\ __/ \/'/\`\\ \ \L\ \\_\ \_/\ \L\.\_\ \ \_/\ __/
\ \_\ \____\ /\_\\ \_\ \ ,__//\____\ \__/.\_\\ \__\ \____\
\/_/\/____/ \/_/ \/_/\ \ \/ \/____/\/__/\/_/ \/__/\/____/
It's a permission problem
 
@PabloGonzálezL Indeed! Thank you very much for testing. :)
I just wanted to make sure before writing to Karl. :)
 
@PauloCereda Ele vai ficar feliz. (my portuguese is null)
 
@PabloGonzálezL It's perfect! :) And I can assure your Portuguese is way better than my Spanish. :)
Voy hacer un dibujo
Me gusta patos
:D
 
@PauloCereda It's more understandable than my Portuguese... what would become of me if there was no google :)
 
7:59 AM
@PabloGonzálezL for some reason, the last sentence reminds me of our resident linguist expert @DavidCarlisle :)
 
@PauloCereda The force is powerful in @DavidCarlisle :)
 
@PabloGonzálezL it is! Also, internet skills. :)
 
@PauloCereda That's right, one question... will the new version of arara be available only for TeXLive 2019? ... Or will you wait until TeXLive 2020 comes out?
 
@PabloGonzálezL oh that's a very good question. We are still working on a couple of things. I hope we can manage to deploy it in the two distros!
 
@PauloCereda That would be great...anyway TeXLive 2019 will freeze on February 28th...there's still some time left.
 
8:08 AM
@PabloGonzálezL ooh a tight deadline...
 
@PauloCereda Like every year :(
 
@PabloGonzálezL yes :(
 
@PauloCereda Just as a final comment... I have 'arara' running on WSL-Ubuntu (win10) and it's going great :)
 
@PabloGonzálezL ooh that's awesome! Thanks for letting me know! :)
@Pablo arara es una ave muy grande
:)
 
@PauloCereda Por supuesto. The best thing is that I can do without Make between different operating systems :)
 
8:16 AM
@PabloGonzálezL that was the main motivation I had. :)
 
@PauloCereda Time to update fedora... I'm disconnecting for a while...Gracias por crear arara, es lo mejor. Saludos
 
@PabloGonzálezL Gracias por usar nuestra herramienta! arara is great because of users, not because of the developers behind it. :)
@Pablo: expect a mail from me any time soon. :)
 
@PauloCereda @PabloGonzálezL they are the same I think, just move a few ~ around.
 
@DavidCarlisle this might trigger myself and @Pablo in so many levels. :)
A 'kangaroo word' is a word that contains the letters of its own synonym, in order.

ex: MAscuLinE, ChOCOlAte, cHickEN.
@barbarabeeton @AlanMunn ^^
 
8:38 AM
@JosephWright one for you, I guess
0
Q: \tl_set:Nf deletes beginning spaces in its #2

Johannes ZIn syntax \tl_set:Nf <tl var> {<tokens>} if <tokens> begins with a space (input as ~), then this space does not appear in the definition of <tl var>. If a space appears in the middle or at the end of <tokens>, then it is kept in <tl var>. Version info: latex2e 2019-10-01 expl3 2020-01-12 ...

 
"The uploader has not made this video available in your country"
:(
 
@skullpatrol oh no
same
ooh a patrol of skulls
 
Apr 6 '18 at 20:13, by Paulo Cereda
@skullpatrol ooh a patrol of skulls
indeed :-)
 
@skullpatrol try bbc version:-) bbc.co.uk/sport/av/snooker/51098509
 
9:15 AM
will do
 
@DavidCarlisle ooh auntie
 
Jan 6 at 17:22, by David Carlisle
@PauloCereda you know nobody has called the bbc auntie since about 1956
 
same^
 
@PauloCereda is that, try again after you have bought a better phone, or try again after you have moved to a different country?
 
9:18 AM
@DavidCarlisle ooh
@DavidCarlisle willow tree
 
9:39 AM
@Speravir Do you mean with all those benchmark-pics I posted earlier and/or the expkv documentation? Your assumption is right, the main reason why I didn't benchmark it is, because its a wrapper around xkeyval using internals of kvsetkeys. Also it is not a classical key=val package in that sense but introduces a limited scope for the key=val interface.
@Speravir If you want to hear my two cents about it: I don't intend to benchmark it, but if I had to guess I'd say it has at least O(n²) run-time because it uses a multi-pass model similar, using internals of kvsetkeys to sanitize the kv-list, then runs through the kv-list again, adding braces, and then uses the slow parser of xkeyval on that sanitized and protected list. To be clear, that's just what I've grasped from its documentation when I looked at it to consider benchmarking it.
@Speravir However I didn't look at its code. All those benchmarks were done for the documentation of expkv and from that documentation:
> I tried to compare expkv to every ⟨key⟩=⟨value⟩ package listed on CTAN, however, one might notice that some of those are missing from this list. That’s because I didn’t get the others to work due to bugs, or because they just provide wrappers around other packages in this list.
 
10:01 AM
@PauloCereda rabbits like mail and promptly replied.
 
@Skillmon oooooh
 
10:13 AM
@DavidCarlisle ...(\subsubsection{minitoc-hyper)..."This package is obsolete, use the uptodate original package minitoc instead."
 
@PabloGonzálezL hmm reading the manual? that will get us nowhere:-)
2
@PabloGonzálezL but what to do with minitoc-hyper.sty in the hyperef distrib? leave it, delete it, make it a stub that just includes minitoc with a warning, ??? (@JosephWright, @UlrikeFischer)
 
@DavidCarlisle The minitoc documentation has the same writing on it...
@DavidCarlisle I vote to remove it...
 
@PabloGonzálezL yes but you are not volunteering to check every file in arxiv to see how many break.... Current plan I think is to make it say (in total)
% Copyright 2020 LaTeX3 Project
\ProvidesPackage{minitoc-hyper}[2020/01/14]
\PackageWarningNoLine{minitoc-hyper}{This package is obsolete\MessageBreak please use minitoc instead}
\RequirePackage{minitoc}
 
10:29 AM
@DavidCarlisle Sounds good to me :)
 
What I just found the minitoc sources on github and I own them?? I had no idea...
 
@DavidCarlisle I'd also take a look at 'intheorem-hyper' ... I have the impression that it does nothing ...But there would be a shortage of volunteers to do the tests :(
@DavidCarlisle Hajajja... burned
 
@PabloGonzálezL look where?
 
Upsss..... ntheorem-hyper.sty
It's a patchy version... but a very old one
 
@PabloGonzálezL ah OK I may leave that today, I'd ping the ntheorem maintainers I guess. that was last updated in 2011, are they still active I wonder?
 
10:38 AM
@DavidCarlisle I don't know (I hope so), but in the documentation they clarify that it is solved (mostly) the compatibility with hypereef
 
I'll mail them... (but after today's release as I don't want to hold up a release waiting for a reply)
 
@DavidCarlisle Good...You forgot to place a back quote on nameref from README.md (on git)
 
@PabloGonzálezL in the edit I just did?, I'll check..
ah thanks
 
@DavidCarlisle Thanks to you... I'll wait for the update :)
@DavidCarlisle close issue 111 :)
 
@JosephWright hyperref spam mail day:-)
 
10:48 AM
@DavidCarlisle ooh
 
@PauloCereda you've got mail
 
@DavidCarlisle oh no
 
@DavidCarlisle How many ways are there to write "support"?
 
@UlrikeFischer lots
 
@DavidCarlisle waiting for more pull requests ;-)
 
11:02 AM
I know that there was a way to do this, but don't remember how and where I read it, does anybody know how to set up text that gets displayed as stringA but gets copied as stringB? E.g., say I want to print \LaTeX, but want the copied text to read LaTeX, instead of LATEX.
 
@Skillmon accsupp package
 
@DavidCarlisle thanks, looks like the thing I read about :)
 
11:24 AM
@DavidCarlisle texdoc texplate, first footnote. :)
 
@PauloCereda I saw no footnote but then realise that texdoc had helpfully substituted texdate, and I tried again while writing this and it shows texmate2manual
 
@DavidCarlisle oh my
 
tlmgr update --all
...
 
[...] it is always your fault when something terribly wrong happens in your code [1].

[1] This statement is suspiciously Carlislean. Also, since we are on the subject, make sure to never read documentation, as bad things happen.
 
@PauloCereda I could file for damages
 
11:30 AM
@DavidCarlisle oh no
 
[28/33, 01:17/01:26] auto-install: texplate.x86_64-cygwin (53444) [1k] ... done
 
@DavidCarlisle yay
 
running fmtutil-sys --no-error-if-no-engine=luahbtex,luajittex,mfluajit --byfmt pdflatex-dev ...
 
Although there are no hard limitations on a template name, it is advisable to keep it short and concise, with no spaces whatsoever [5].

[5] Another Carlislean statement would remind us that people that put spaces in their file names deserve no sympathy. At all.
 
1 min ago, by David Carlisle
@PauloCereda I could file for damages
 
11:31 AM
@DavidCarlisle oh no
 
people who not people that
 
11:49 AM
@DavidCarlisle oopsie
 
@PauloCereda Eu nunca cometeria um erro ou erro de digitação na gramática inglesa
 
@DavidCarlisle oh
 
@PauloCereda Is my Portuguese as good as my English?
 
@DavidCarlisle perfect :)
 
@PauloCereda I thought it would be
 
12:05 PM
@DavidCarlisle :)
 
 
2 hours later…
2:04 PM
Hi all! If anyone has a minute or two, I think I have spotted a typo in Why conflict between mathtools and Gonzalo's solution for auto-adjusting description environment? There are two temporary names in use \@tempdimb and one below \@tempdima, which makes no sense and breaks the example. It's just one character, I don't have the rep to do that, and the author has disassociated his/her account, so leaving a comment seems useless. Thanks.
 
@Martin-マーチン done
 
Thank you :D
It was driving me crazy why this didn't compile correctly... so I hope noone has to go that route again.
 
Oh my, I almost forgot Doctor Who!
 
2:36 PM
Do you guys enjoy Jodie Whittaker?
 
2:54 PM
user image
2
 
@PauloCereda seldom, my wife and I used to watch a lot of Dr. Who, but somehow stopped for a while, I think I have seen 8 episodes with her as the Doctor, or so.
 
@Skillmon The new season is on, and I still prefer Peter Capaldi. :)
@barbarabeeton ^^ some puns for your amusement. :)
 
@PauloCereda I didn't like Capaldi that much tbh.
 
@Skillmon by the way, mr. rabbit, more communications. :)
 
@PauloCereda already saw it.
 
2:57 PM
@Skillmon I think his arc was a bit complicated. :) For me, Tennant is the best doctor. :)
 
@PauloCereda agreed.
 
@Skillmon Allons-y!
 
@PauloCereda though I liked Eccleston, too. He had the correct amount of weirdness, imho.
 
@PauloCereda I don't think I saw any with Tennant or Capladi, current one is OK, but isn't John Pertwee, and Bradley Walsh certainly isn't Louise Jameson
 
Who invented the stupid datatypes of Matlab? And why did the guy who's code I am to use introduce such a weird data-layout with those stupid datatypes :(
When the sole reason you're using Matlab is that you have to reuse undocumented code somebody else wrote, you start to ask yourself the important questions of life...
 
3:06 PM
@Skillmon don't you like arrays:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle well, arrays are fine, but cell-arrays, struct, table, ...
Have I mentioned that not only is the code undocumented, but also uncommented?
 
@Skillmon perhaps it's like my code, which is so transparently clear that it needs no further documentation.
 
@DavidCarlisle It is harder to understand than indentfirst, I can assure you.
 
@Skillmon that's before you get on to the classdef OO features (that I was investigating yesterday as it happens)
 
@DavidCarlisle you, too, have to get around Matlab? I thought I was the only poor guy in this chat.
 
3:11 PM
@DavidCarlisle ooh the scarf
@Skillmon :)
Oct 2 '12 at 23:41, by percusse
@PauloCereda MATLAB is the antagonist, Mathematica is the murderer that you only get to see in the end. Maple is the guy who gets killed in the first 5 minutes. Octave is the girl to be saved.
 
@Skillmon I think like many systems that start off with a design aimed for a brutally simple syntax for a fixed range of features, that adding features later means you have to have lots of special cases to avoid the syntax shortcuts built in to the original design
 
@Skillmon ^^ from our genius percusse :)
 
@PauloCereda and Python is the superhero that saves everyone.
 
@Skillmon ooh snakes :)
I use Mathematica. :)
 
user image
3
 
@Skillmon LOL
 
@Skillmon Are those really pythons, though? They look too skinny for that. They look almost like cobras to me, except I don't think they grow quite that big. And I wouldn't want to be the instructor if that is what they are.
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen I think the biggest cobras can actually reach up to 4m length, so it might really be cobras.
@HaraldHanche-Olsen and yes, they don't really look like pythons, but I'm not an expert, and I certainly wasn't the one taking that picture...
 
3:29 PM
@PauloCereda ^^^For the World Day of the Snowman
 
@UlrikeFischer oh a snowmanbear.
 
@UlrikeFischer Yay!
@Skillmon How would you say "snowmanbear" in German? :)
 
@PauloCereda Schneemannbär.
 
@Skillmon ooh
 
@PauloCereda that was too easy, wasn't it?
 
3:36 PM
@Skillmon I was expecting something longer and more complicated. :)
 
@PauloCereda actually German is a pretty concise language. Not as short as English, but more unambiguous.
 
@PauloCereda Weltschneemanntagbärentshirt << long enough?
 
@PauloCereda and the composite words are one of the reasons for this
@UlrikeFischer there is one problem with this. You can't put tshirt into one word in German. It is T-Shirt, as the T is an abbreviation, same goes for E-Mail. So a better one would be "Weltschneemanntagsbärenkurzärmelhemd".
 
@PauloCereda Not to be confused with ein Seemannbär …
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen oh
@Skillmon ooh
@UlrikeFischer ooh
@Skillmon @Skillmon let's wait for @DavidCarlisle :)
 
3:52 PM
@PauloCereda you mean when there finally is a linguist here who knows what he's talking? (@DavidCarlisle)
 
@Skillmon :D
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen which would be this one:
 
@UlrikeFischer ooh more bears
 
@PauloCereda I have now a bear-t-shirt-producing-machine ;-) I should try to write a template for it ;-)
 
@UlrikeFischer OOH A TEMPLATE
This gives me... ideas.
IDEAS
@TeXnician HELP
<3
 
4:06 PM
@UlrikeFischer can you spot any pattern here?
Running checks on
  38-pdfminorversion (1/7)
          --> failed

  81-gobble-thanks (2/7)
          --> failed

  o50-footnotesspaces (3/7)
          --> failed

  test0 (4/7)
          --> failed

  test1 (5/7)
          --> failed
 
@DavidCarlisle not directly. Did you push everything or is only local?
 
@DavidCarlisle ooh me me me me... the --> failed thingy
 
@UlrikeFischer no I thought since every test fails (the pattern I wondered if you would spot:-) I thought best not to commit:-) The existing pdfversion tests are ... "interesting" how hard can it be to add a pdfmajorversion ....
@PauloCereda yep you win. @UlrikeFischer loses.
 
@DavidCarlisle ;-) I thought only this five failed ;-((
 
@UlrikeFischer They are the first five and I applied proof by induction to the rest of the test suite.
@UlrikeFischer I wonder if the new hyperref has as many { an } ...
 
4:13 PM
@DavidCarlisle 11
 
@UlrikeFischer That's the one! Lacking a parrot, of course … um, ein Papagei?
 
4:27 PM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen I don't have a parrot, but I can offer a pirate duck:
 
@UlrikeFischer ooh wir sind Piraten
 
@PauloCereda can one tell texplate not to overwrite existing files?
 
@UlrikeFischer :) not to complain, but parrots usually sit on the sailor's shoulder. ducks may be … different.
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen ducks swim and so are lower.
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen real parrots sit on shoulders but the bear ate the real duck, that's just an emblem on the shirt.
@UlrikeFischer rm `which texplate ` if I understand the question correctly
@UlrikeFischer just one failure now - ./build/test/38-pdfminorversion.luatex.diff
 
4:40 PM
@DavidCarlisle and why?
 
@UlrikeFischer I blame @UlrikeFischer
@UlrikeFischer all pass, now... to try your test case in the issue that sets 2.0 ....
 
Mar 10 '12 at 12:03, by David Carlisle
then if it doesn't work you can blame me :(
 
@DavidCarlisle which issue?
 
%PDF-2.0
%���������
@UlrikeFischer this one ^^^^
 
@DavidCarlisle oh you adapted hyperref for this?
 
4:49 PM
@UlrikeFischer well there isn't too long to get these updates in before tl2020
 
@DavidCarlisle it's nice. When will you push?
 
@UlrikeFischer couple of minutes, just making that test into a lvt
 
5:04 PM
@UlrikeFischer done
@UlrikeFischer I have checked 87-pdf2.tlg in as passing although it currently is wrong output in pdftex until the \pdfmajorversion` primitive appears. the checked in .luatex.tlg does show 2.0 though.
 
@DavidCarlisle where is the lvt? I see only a luatex.tlg?
 
@UlrikeFischer oops, fixed
@UlrikeFischer I really don't like the style of hiding all the primitives (that's what confused me before) although I have kept it this time, the old code \Hy@pdfminorversion=\Hy@pdfversion means if the current value if \pdfminorversion is the setting of \Hy@pdfversion from the option setting then... so my original plan to change \Hy@pdfversion to \Hy@pdfminorversion failed at that point and I had to use a different name:-)
@UlrikeFischer you home?
it should work to use pdfversion=2.0 as a hyperref key now
 
@DavidCarlisle no, we are still in switzerland for another week. We had a break today (bad weather) but tomorrow we will be skiing again.
@DavidCarlisle I'm just reading the code and trying to understand it.
 
@UlrikeFischer I added a couple of lines of comments which is infinitely more than the old version had
 
5:35 PM
@DavidCarlisle
%PDF-2.0
%ÐÔÅØ
^^^ with pdflatex from w32tex
 
@DavidCarlisle Where part of the "hyperref" is loaded with "minitoc"...when running
$ grep -rn 'minitoc' --include="*.*" hyperref/
hyperref/minitoc-hyper.sty:3:\ProvidesPackage{minitoc-hyper}[2020/01/14]
hyperref/minitoc-hyper.sty:4:\PackageWarningNoLine{minitoc-hyper}{%
hyperref/minitoc-hyper.sty:6:please use minitoc instead}
hyperref/minitoc-hyper.sty:7:\RequirePackage{minitoc}
hyperref/manifest.txt:17:minitoc-hyper.sty
hyperref/manifest.txt:18: Patched version of `minitoc.sty' to work with `hyperref.sty'.
 
@UlrikeFischer was my reply on the issue to Denis more or less accurate?
@PabloGonzálezL it doesn't load it does it?
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes, the same goes for "ntheorem-hyper"
$ grep -rn 'ntheorem-hyper' --include="*.*" hyperref/
hyperref/manifest.txt:19:ntheorem-hyper.sty
hyperref/build.lua:78:"hyperref/ntheorem-hyper.sty",
hyperref/build.lua:132:"tex/latex/hyperref/ntheorem-hyper.sty",
hyperref/doc/manual.tex:2810: ntheorem-hyper.sty is an old patched version of ntheorem.sty.
hyperref/ntheorem-hyper.sty:48:\def\basename{ntheorem-hyper}
hyperref/ntheorem-hyper.sty:65:\ProvidesPackage{ntheorem-hyper}[\filedate \space\fileversion]
I think that over the years they became obsolete and the changes were not added to ChangeLog.txt
 
@DavidCarlisle yes, only that it also already works in xetex. With dvips + ps2pdf I get currently %PDF-1.4, not idea what one has to change there.
 
5:54 PM
@DavidCarlisle I remembered: with ps2pdf one can use -dCompatibilityLevel=2.0.
 
@UlrikeFischer yes but I think the dvips back end file is supposed to put add a suitable \special, I'll check
@PabloGonzálezL they are not intended to be included into hyperref, they are/were intended for users to use in documents to avoid conflicts between the packages
 
@DavidCarlisle Do you think they're still necessary?
 
@PabloGonzálezL same as xr-hyper isn't included into hyper but if you are using hyperref you should use xr-hyper instead of xr (because the maintainers of xr, xr-hyper and hyperref can't agree on a sensible interface to avoid the conflict)
@PabloGonzálezL ntheorem one I have no idea, as I say once this is on ctan so they can easily test, I'll mail the ntheorem maintainers and ask them....
 
@DavidCarlisle I can't find nothing, and the ps2pdf script chooses the pdf version on the progname:progname == 'ps2pdf14' then PDF_level='1.4'.
 
@DavidCarlisle Hopefully the "maintainers" will get their act together someday :)
@DavidCarlisle I tried several forum files... even the message in manual.pdf "But there are still unsolved problems (options thref, ...)" is fixed and the only problem that persists is in the documentation of ntheorem.
 
6:08 PM
@UlrikeFischer I'm going to have to update my self-compiled tl2020 pre-release I think as I can't test this properly at all, with
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[pdfversion=2.0]{hyperref}
\pdfcompresslevel=0
\begin{document}
blub

 \the\pdfminorversion %
 \showthe\pdfminorversion %
\end{document}
then with latex I get 5 and with pdflatex I get
pdfTeX warning (Object streams): \pdfobjcompresslevel > 0 requires \pdfminorver
sion > 4. Object streams disabled now.
> 0.
 
@DavidCarlisle yes, but with the new version it works fine. Is \Hy@pdfversion still used somewhere? Or why do you have \let\Hy@pdfversion\Hy@pdf@minorversion?
 
@UlrikeFischer just in case some other package is testing it
 
@DavidCarlisle I only find it once in hycolor.
 
meanwhile the ghostscript manual says
The PostScript setdistillerparams and currentdistillerparams operators are also recognized when the input is PostScript, and provide an equivalent way to set these parameters from within a PostScript input file.
So you should be able set the pdf output version by putting some literal postscript into a dvips special, I'll experiment
 
6:28 PM
@DavidCarlisle the comment of my husband: "wie er liest manuals?" ;-) I'm going to diner now ...
 
@UlrikeFischer hmph don't choke on your duck bones
 
@DavidCarlisle Just as a note for the future, I think I've understood a little bit of the history of ntheorem-hyper.sty. The package ntheorem has all versions documented (in the .dtx file) and it skips from v1.13 to v1.15, this is because ntheorem-hyper.sty has v1.14 assigned to it [1998/12/03] and Heiko appears as a contributor in ntheorem.
@DavidCarlisle That said, since version v1.17 [1999/09/06] the hyperref option was added to ntheorem and from that date until the last version v1.33 it has been directly maintained by ntheorem.
 
7:23 PM
@PabloGonzálezL 1999? oh better leave it a bit longer to allow time for changes to be distributed:-) Maybe I'll stub it out same as minitoc...
 
@Martin-マーチン is that really how Japanese would spell your name? I'd have thought they'd go for マーティン. (that kana sequence was created with TeX :)
 
@DavidCarlisle Good idea, in fact, the same author of ntheorem-hyper is the one who adds the changes in the v1.17 version of ntheorem .
 
@Skillmon You would also be correct. My former supervisor came up with that transliteration. It's used on all my documents, so I kept it, even though what you propose is the more accurate pronunciation...
@Skillmon How do you produce that with tex?
 
@Martin-マーチン I wrote myself a letter-by-letter parser that translates Romaji to Kana (since I don't have means to directly input Japanese glyphs).
@Martin-マーチン that's the output of doing \romaji{MAATIN}.
 
That is quite nice; I'm using a virtual keyboard. But technically these are katakane ;), romaji are the letters we use.
 
7:33 PM
@Martin-マーチン I know. The macro is called \romaji because it expects Romaji as input and outputs Katakana and Hiragana.
 
That makes sense
 
\usepackage{pgf}
\usepgfmodule{parser}

\makeatletter
\newcommand*\kana@ifempty[1]%>>=
  {%
    \if\relax\detokenize{#1}\relax
      \kana@true
    \fi
    \kana@false
  }%=<<
\long\def\kana@true\fi#1#2#3{\fi#2}
\long\def\kana@false#1#2{#2}
\newcommand*\kanadef{\@ifstar\kanadef@s\kanadef@n}
\newcommand*\kanadef@s[1]%>>=
  {%
    \kana@ifempty{#1}{}{\kanadef@step#1\kana@stop{}}%
  }%=<<
\newcommand*\kanadef@n[2]%>>=
  {%
    \kana@ifempty{#1}{}
      {\kanadef@step#1\kana@stop{}{\symbol{#2}\pgfparserswitch{initial}}}%
@Martin-マーチン the macro and its definition. Only 478 lines of code :)
@Martin-マーチン I don't remember all the input rules, as I never wrote a documentation for it. Upper case input is translated to Katakana, lowercase to Hiragana. Where there can be special glyphs based on context which can't (to my knowledge) be directly transcribed to Romaji a : should switch to the alternative (iirc).
 
Haha, 'only'. I've just written a whole class with fewer lines ;)
Documentation, it's so important, yet almost always the last thing that gets done ;)
 
@Martin-マーチン well, I wrote it for myself and didn't know whether I'd ever publish it, sooo.
@Martin-マーチン oh, and if you want a single ン which is followed by a vocal (for whichever reason), then you can do n' or N'.
 
That's almost always how it starts... and then, years later, when you find your code pieces, you have no idea. Been there many times ^^
@Skillmon In most IEM you have to type 'nn' for that. Which at the beginning I often forgot
 
7:50 PM
@Martin-マーチン I have no idea, I stopped studying Japanese due to my busy schedule after I had learned it for around half a year, and forgot almost everything. And by that time I didn't do much on computer in Japanese only by hand, so haven't had any contact to other transcription systems.
\romaji{MAATIN:wa doitsugo hanashimasu.} results in マーティンはどいつごはなします。
 
I know the feeling. I gave up on learning the language while I was still there, mostly because I was too busy. Mostly I've used my phone and computer at the time, as that was part of my workplace.
@Skillmon Yes, yes I do.
Fancy how the wa is transcribed to ha.
It needs to be wo though.
 
@Martin-マーチン why's that? I thought if the "topic" is マーティン then the particle should be は.
@Martin-マーチン Just like an introduction starts with "Watashi-wa".
 
Oh, yes in that context, that is correct of course.
 
@Martin-マーチン wasn't "wo" an object-particle? (I'm not sure anymore)
 
I was thinking in terms of 'is speaking', which technically I'm currently not.
 
8:02 PM
@Martin-マーチン yeah, I guess I should've opted for "Martin kann Deutsch" or something like that.
 
Also I think I was wrong in any case
wo refers to the object, not the subject.
 
@Martin-マーチン I don't know any tenses, only the -masu form and the -sen form of verbs.
 
That I understand a lot more of ;)
The good thing about japanese is that there are only two tenses... They have no future. O.ô
 
@Martin-マーチン is that really a good thing? :)
 
Yes and no. It is hard to express some things where it is much easier in other languages... on the other hand, repetition is quite common in japanese, so that makes things easier again. You just say something like 'that happens. then that happens. then that happens...'
I need to run to the shops before they close. It's been nice talking. :D
 
8:07 PM
@Martin-マーチン have a nice evening!
 
 
4 hours later…
11:44 PM
The question complaining about the small (to the OP) number of hyphenation patterns has got me thinking: do the American patterns hyphenate words spelt with British spelling correctly? (for example, "honour", "centre" ?) I'm assuming the British English patterns do.
This actually matters because Canadian English uses American hyphenation but with mixed British/American spellings.
 
@AlanMunn who uses American English anyways?
 
@Skillmon Not me. :) But see above, so sort of me...
 

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