@Speravir things like etoolbox-de ctan.org/tex-archive/info/translations/etoolbox/de are not really a problem (the documentation may get a bot old bit that isn't so bad) geometry-de was a problem because it allowed extraction of an old geometry.sty which would then break geometry package for everyone whether or not they were using German

Hmm, I am not versed anymore in styling.

@DavidCarlisle OK.

Speaking of this: Does someone (@UlrikeFischer) know why Herbert Voß deleted his account (user2478 was his one)? Or was it not himself?

@Speravir Damn coments/comtnes= comments, caht= chat.

@DavidCarlisle -- I'm finally getting around to looking at the accumulated questions after returning from a New Year's trip. For the question tex.stackexchange.com/q/522474 you say that \leavevmode is a syntax error after either proof or description before \item. But there's no itemize or enumerate going on, and there are several nested levels of theorem and proof (which I would consider a really nasty syntax misuse, if not an outright error). So what am I missing?

@barbarabeeton not after proof (that is where I say to put it) but it is an error after description as that is a list and only takes \item

@DavidCarlisle ooh

@Speravir You can remove your comment and flag the follow-up comment as "no longer needed", they will probably be removed as obsolete then.

@PauloCereda important bits: cricket (48m); TeX (1h33min); and what to ask God (1h44min)

@DavidCarlisle ooh

I was wondering that if WWIII breaks out, I don't need to work on fixing bugs...

Petra didn't like my README File:( (and pointed me at instructions, which of course I had never read) ctan.org/file/help/ctan/CTAN-upload-addendum#readme

@DavidCarlisle oh readnotme

WAIT A MINUTE, THERE IS A PLAYMOBIL MOVIE

@PauloCereda I think this obeys (c) at least github.com/rf-latex/endnotes/blob/master/README.md

@DavidCarlisle too verbose :)

@Skillmon Thanks for the comments. I upvoted on other of your contributions instead.

@PauloCereda Do you know something we don't?

@FaheemMitha nope :)

@DavidCarlisle That looks like a really long interview.

@AlanMunn twentytwowords.com/…

@PauloCereda Hawaii is officially the most expensive state to purchase a home in! (but very good for Pizza)

@DavidCarlisle ooh

@Dr.ManuelKuehner now everything should be settled.

@Skillmon Thanks! That was quick!

@DavidCarlisle -- Thanks. (Yes, memory of the rules fades.) But isn't the nesting of proof within a theorem object, with another theorem object within the proof at least peculiar? (I would say it's almost certainly misguided.) And the absence of any list command seems just plain wrong, although nothing is mentioned about relevant error messages. ???

@barbarabeeton yes proof is intended to go after theorem not inside it (although one could argue that the nested arrangement has some logic)

@DavidCarlisle -- But why no error saying that \item is misplaced? (oh, happy New Year.)

@barbarabeeton just usual tex accidental expansions in an unplanned order, with the code as below you get a missing item error, but if you uncomment the proof environment, the markup is still wrong but you get no error.

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{amsthm}
\begin{document}

%\begin{proof}
\begin{description}
\leavevmode
\item[zzz] zzz
\end{description}
%\end{proof}

\end{document}

@DavidCarlisle -- That's very peculiar. I suspect a bug, but I'm still too foggy from jetr lag to investigate.

@barbarabeeton error trapping in macros is always a bit hit and miss. It's unrelated to amsthm, you see the same with

\documentclass{article}

\begin{document}

\begin{itemize}
\item
\begin{description}
\leavevmode
\item[zzz] zzz
\end{description}
\end{itemize}

\end{document}

@DavidCarlisle -- Nice. (Hmmmph. Still really ought to get an error message.)

@barbarabeeton it's tricky as the effects of the outer \item are still pending (due to the special code latex lists have for items that start a nested list) you could probably trap this but if you change the core list code you may break any amount of stuff

@Dr.ManuelKuehner it will take until the next release to distribute the fix though (and of course I don't know whether my pull request will be merged or whether @moewe wants to do his own digging).

@DavidCarlisle -- Might there be any logical place to document this? Is it documented anywhere that you know of? (Taking into account that you don't read documentation?)

@barbarabeeton not really, and the fact that proofs theorems (and center environments) etc are one-item lists also isn't over-documented in user level documentation so even if we documented the itemize version above, it wouldn't obviously apply to the original proof environment use

@DavidCarlisle -- Ah, yes. The fact that almost everything is defined as a list. That's the thing I dislike most about the design of LaTeX -- it's totally misguided and causes too many problems that are simply swept under the rug. And I keep forgetting it. Sigh.

@barbarabeeton calling it a list is a bit odd but the design itself isn't so bad. If it had been called "generic display environment" rather than "list" then it would be OK

@DavidCarlisle -- Okay only if "list" and "generic display environment" were treated totally separately. (I also wish that items had a marked ending. I used to use that to excellent effect when creating styles in plain TeX. A distinctly superior approach in [SG|X]ML, regardless of the increased verbosity. And the reason I'm still fond of \\ , since that was usually my terminator.)

@barbarabeeton yes sure there are some bits that are less good than other bits, but as you say it's everywhere in latex and changing it without breaking every document ever written might be a bit tricky. If @UlrikeFischer does the checkin it wouldn't be so bad as then we could blame her.

@DavidCarlisle -- Even if I have more tolerance (even affection) for dragons than @UlrikeFischer does, not everything can be her fault!

@barbarabeeton I don't see why not.

@PauloCereda these numbers are likely very unrealistic for big states with big urban areas where housing is very unaffordable. It’s true though that the cost of living in Michigan is very low. But you pay for that in lousy food and no culture. 😂

@DavidCarlisle -- 'Cuz nobody is that incompetent. Not even you!

@barbarabeeton Hey it took quite some effort to get blamed for everything. That is not something everyone can achieve!

@Skillmon I see. Still, that's amazing!

@UlrikeFischer -- <grin>

@FaheemMitha Ah, ok.

@DavidCarlisle -- I must apologize. description is not the same as definition. Clearly I am still asleep.

@barbarabeeton apology not accepted as you so were so mean to me above:-)

@DavidCarlisle -- Oh, well, I won't remove the offer, in case you change your mind.

@barbarabeeton so how was iceland?

Two bugs in two packages I use frequently found and fixed today (well, I'm not entirely sure about the second fix)... This is my day :)

@Skillmon clearly you should use more of my packages!

@DavidCarlisle Which packages did you write? :)

@Skillmon indentfirst and a couple of others

@DavidCarlisle but how can I suppress the first indent after loading indentfirst for every first paragraph after a heading? I think indentfirst lacks an option to temporarily turn its effects off :)

@DavidCarlisle more seriously: It's @UlrikeFischer's fault!

@Skillmon \newif\if@afterindent

@Skillmon natürlich

@DavidCarlisle -- Quite rainy, until it was time to go to the airport, when a serious snow squall arose. As far as the places we visited, very interesting. I'd been to some of them before, but the outside places are lots different in the summer. Geology is also a lot more active now. Strokkur (a geyser) now erupts several times an hour, all by itself; when I visited in the 1980s, it had to be "encouraged" by adding soap powder. The museums are really interesting. And the fireworks were phenomenal.

@DavidCarlisle My fix would have been MUCH longer, but less resource hungry: \def\@afterindentfalse{\let\if@afterindent\iffalse}.

@Skillmon \newif doesn't use any resources:-)

@DavidCarlisle \newif does need much more computational power than \def\@afterindentfalse{...}.

@Skillmon bah you use 7 tokens which is almost twice the size of the original package:-)

@DavidCarlisle but the performance! :)

@DavidCarlisle doh, you were faster with that footnote question :(

@AlanMunn ooh a lake

@Skillmon hi mr. rabbit!

@PauloCereda Hi, Mr. Duck!

@Skillmon how are you, pal? :)

@Skillmon but just a comment, egreg would have posted a 100000-duplicate answer and picked up 105 points by now.

@PauloCereda now good (caught the sickness my children had on new years eve)!

@PauloCereda oh, and: I'm not your pal, friend!

@DavidCarlisle :) The problem is, that sometimes answering is faster than searching for the duplicate.

@Skillmon ooh I know the reference: I am not your friend, guy!

@PauloCereda I'm not your guy, dude! :)

@Skillmon I am not your dude, pal! :)

@PauloCereda yay, we made a small loop, now internet: Rinse and Repeat!

@Skillmon yaaaaay

South Park :)

Good evening to all users. Any improvements in tags and English language into my recent question are very welcome. Thank you, everyone.

@DavidCarlisle Best regards to you.

@Sebastiano never heard it called nepero e before, must be an Italian name? It's usually just called euler's e if it is given a name at all in English

@Sebastiano ah it's latinised Napier, OK

Hi, I have coded lots of things to form a package...

How may I make them a package?

I mean, they are still separate .tex files. Each have parameters...

@EnthusiasticEngineer mv foo.tex foo.sty works.

should I combine all the separate tex files into one?

@EnthusiasticEngineer whatever you want, make them all one if it is like indentfirst (4 tokens) or multiple files if it's the size of tikz (which is spread over dozens of files)

seems complicated for me.. should read some posts on it...

@EnthusiasticEngineer what's complicated?, as I say it can be as simple as giving the file a .sty extension. the tex coding might be complicated but there is nothing complicated about latex package it is just syntactic sugar for file input

@DavidCarlisle no, the format of the style file, etc. I have never produced a sty file before. My current files are in format of a self-running tex file. Each have a \documentclass{standalone} ... \begin{document}...\end{document} format.

let me show you one of the files here

I am trying to make a package to produce all the drawings needed by structural civil engineers, this is my field of study and my job.

you want a % here :-) \newcommand{\pps}[3]{ or the ghost of @egreg will haunt you forever

why? :D seems killers are many in this site! :(((

@EnthusiasticEngineer so just take that newcommand put it in mydrawings.sty then you can keep your tex file but replace the big newcommand and tikz code with \usepackage{mydrawings}

@EnthusiasticEngineer because a newline is a space and you are introducing two spaces (one at the start and one at the end, that you don't want

@DavidCarlisle Thank you very much for your message..on Napier. Now I'm seeing your previous messages. aahahahah :-)

@DavidCarlisle ok! survived this time! :))

My best regards and good chat.

@EnthusiasticEngineer those spaces make a difference, because a tikzpicture that is \textwidth wide will fit on a line but a tikzpicture that is \textwidth wide but preceded and followed by a space will not fit on a line and will take three lines

@EnthusiasticEngineer I already sent the “Percent Police” to chase for you.

@egreg oh no :))

@DavidCarlisle thank you... little by little I understand more of these points...

the beauty of the TeX system

@EnthusiasticEngineer the safest thing to do is to drink the magic potion and code in expl3 syntax then the ruthless % mafia can not touch you.

@DavidCarlisle is it easy to learn?

@EnthusiasticEngineer ask @egreg:-)

@EnthusiasticEngineer although more seriously don't do that with this package as it's all tikz so no real benefit in adding expl3 on top.

@DavidCarlisle I think he is busy in court to file me complaint on my percentage sign! :D

@DavidCarlisle I will learn it in future... I am getting familiar with coding in LaTeX little by little. Writing these small codes really helped me understanding some simple things.

@EnthusiasticEngineer although that is more complicated than you need (you don't need \NeedsTeXFormat or \endinput and you don't have to have \Providespackage either.

@DavidCarlisle my drawings need tikz...

@EnthusiasticEngineer yes you just need \RequirePackage{tikz} and your \newcommand...

@DavidCarlisle ok, I will make them. very interested about the things I learn!

As always... many thanks to you @DavidCarlisle

@EnthusiasticEngineer then you can add more newcommands for your other diagrams to the same package, so a document can define them all just by \usepackage{mycommands}

@DavidCarlisle actually they are in different standard shapes and materials: steel, concrete, etc... I have to find a way to categorize them in the package.

Also, I have the sense that the way user inputs drawing dimensions may not be easy for a user, they are in form: \function{3 inputs}{4 inputs}{etc}{etc}

@EnthusiasticEngineer a more verbose keyvalue interface might be easier so replace \pps{40,3}{2,20,0.8}{5} by \pps{h=40, c=3, wibble=2,something=.8,foo=5} ?

@DavidCarlisle much easier but I did not know how to change input code to contain definite names

@EnthusiasticEngineer keyval package, or (since you are using tikz) pgfkeys, or if you take the magic drink above. l3keys

@DavidCarlisle magic drink :)) pgfkeys seems great... I will work on it

@EnthusiasticEngineer keyval is simplest (it is used eg for \includegraphics[height=...] and from a reputable source, it's enough for what you need but as you have loaded pgf keys already no harm to use it here.

@DavidCarlisle I wanted to try not to load many packages... so if pgf is called, no more packages may be needed.

@EnthusiasticEngineer sure but from next month expl3 will be preloaded into the format so that won't be an issue, and most documents have loaded keyval (if they use graphics, or hyperref or geometry or ....)

@DavidCarlisle wow... I am seeing pgfkey and keyval documentations... keyval seems easier as you said

@EnthusiasticEngineer keyval was written to work with the initial 2e release and had to work in a msdos tex with 540K of total memory available, tikz and expl3 were written for a different era:-)

@DavidCarlisle pgf seems too heavy, even when I load to draw some of my pictures, I can fill it...

@EnthusiasticEngineer but you have loaded it anyway as tikz is based on it so you have already paid the "price" so using it is free in your case.

@DavidCarlisle yes... I had no other choice for drawing. Except you have some magic drinks again :))

good info on keyval here: texfaq.org/FAQ-keyval

@EnthusiasticEngineer oh yes excellent text that, I wonder who wrote it:-)

@DavidCarlisle yourself I guess: texfaq.org/authors

@EnthusiasticEngineer long before we took over (I gave the text to Robin a hundred years ago:-)