@DavidCarlisle some z would be fine ;-)

@AlexG -- Ick! My archive shows 5 messages on that subject from that sender on Friday, but all are different. And none of them have a matching timestamp, but that's not at all definitive. Seems that something is clearly wrong, so I think you probably should report it. You'll probably be asked for more details from headers, so be prepared.

@PhelypeOleinik great! This closes this strange "Histoire d'O"...

@barbarabeeton I got reply from Karl. He will try to fix this.

@DavidCarlisle Yes I have noticed that; I guess I will extract the braces part into my own package. My own font choice is of course vastly superior! :-)

In other news I'm interesting in drawing a mathcal font from an OTF file, it's installed and all that, but the glyphs have no unicode id, only gid. The mathspec package is not entirely clear on how to grab calligraphic font using gid, it just blindly assumes unicode tags are known and implemented. Is it time for me to code my own \mathcal? It seems silly no high level commands are available for this so better just ask eh

that all depends, in luatex you can probably use its lua font access to re-arrange the font on the fly but in xetex that's less easy but you can still access glyphs vi glyph id if you must. Are they not encoded at all, or just not encoded in Unicode position?

@DavidCarlisle Isn't it easier? with e.g. \XeTeXglyph?

Just hard code the gid's into some macros and (proverbial) badaboom

Oh wait I misread,

Yes indeed, I guess Lua has the edge there. I think I'll go the route you described with xetex though to make the transition smoother

I guess I was smart, but then I kind of wasn't

:

\documentclass[12pt]{article}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\setmainfont{Minion 3 Display Italic}
\usepackage{multido}
\begin{document}

\let\oldmathcal\mathcal

\makeatletter
\renewcommand\mathcal[1]{%
    \ensuremath{\csname my@mathcal@capital@#1\endcsname}
}
% char 97 is "a", char 102 is "z"
\multido{\i=977+1}{26}{%
    \expandafter\def\csname my@mathcal@capital@\expandafter\char\numexpr{96+\i} \endcsname{\XeTeXglyph\i}%
}
\makeatother

\mathcal{A}

\end{document}

@CarLaTeX nice ;-))))

@UlrikeFischer :)

@1010011010 you could probably dispense with the loops and just do \def\mathcal#1{\XeTeXglyph\numexpr`#1+977\relax} if I understood the intent correctly. (you can't have \char in \csname)

@1010011010 athough you probably want \text{.....} to get the right font don't you? I'm not sure what xetexglyph does in math mode

xetexglyph can't be used in math mode

Wouldn't I need a \char somewhere? Mathcal has capital letters as input typically

@1010011010 not surprised, as I said in the previous comment, so \def\mathcal#1{\text{\somecommandtoselectthefont\XeTeXglyph\numexpr`#1+977\relax}}

@1010011010 yes so what is the offset between the character code of A and the gyph index of the calligraphic A ? I used 977 above but can't test

Wait just to be sure

\numexpr A gives the glyph id of A?

Nvm, backtick does that

@1010011010 no `A gives the unicode number of A, and then the numexpr adds 977 which I took from your code

The 977 refers to glyph id

So it's sadly a little more complicated

There's no unicode for the glyph

Hence the idea of looping over the glyph ids

XeTeXglyph also works with gid afaik

@1010011010 exactly that's what my suggestion was doing

I assumed from \multido{\i=977+1}{26}{% that you were getting the glyph id of the caligraphic by adding 977 to the unicode value of the normal letter?

@1010011010 so if #1 is B so `#1 is 66 what glyphid do you want?

Ok I figured it out

The font table is a massive clusterfudge

So A points to 65 but B does not point to 66

Time to go ifcase I guess

Cheers

Hi, I had a lot of error in fmtutils since this morning update in jadetex (I think)...

tlmgr: fmtutil-sys --no-error-if-no-engine=luahbtex,luajittex,mfluajit --byfmt jadetex failed

Loading english hyphenation patterns and exceptions
(/home/romano/texlive2019/texmf-dist/tex/generic/hyphen/hyphen.tex)

! LaTeX Error: Encoding scheme `IL2' unknown.

See the LaTeX manual or LaTeX Companion for explanation.
Type  H <return>  for immediate help.
 ...

l.131 ...                        \@requesthyphens}
                                                  %

Not that I use it... but now I do not know if the build of the format stopped or if the other have been built correctly (sorry, newbie in TeXLive ...)

@Rmano I got no errors. But you can always check in the log if your format it up-to-date.

jadetex wow:-)

@DavidCarlisle Actually my cheers were premature; I have one seemingly unrelated but very related question where I can find the font "name" so to speak if I define a new font family. So I have declared: \newfontfamily\asdf{Minion Pro}, and I'd like to use this font for a symbol, say \ell, the third argument of \DeclareMathSymbol will not take \asdf it seems, so I need to find the name, where would I do that?

PS: Suppose also that I have checked the font table and the glyph exists, I have the glyph id + unicode, so effectively I can use "<unicode number> in the fourth argument, if only I could find the font name

@1010011010 you need to set it up as a math font (or much simpler) use \text as I suggested above. by default xetex uses 8bit math fonts unless you use unicode-math but unicode math requires a real opentype math font with a math table

@1010011010 \DeclareMathSymbol doesn't use a font name but a symbolic name that you have to declare first.

@1010011010 also \DeclareMathSymbol uses \mathchardef (not \Umathchardef) internally so won't work for characters above 255

@UlrikeFischer Yes indeed, what the scheme to do so?

@1010011010 github.com/wspr/unicode-math/issues/485

@DavidCarlisle Hi, Query...which file(s) load oberdiek-bundle.bib directly?

@PabloGonzálezL nothing

So essentially I want to be using the key NFSSFamily

@DavidCarlisle Snif....:(

@DavidCarlisle The font I'm using is "real opentype" but there's no math table

@UlrikeFischer but not with this font which isn't math font....

@DavidCarlisle Enrico's example in the issue used libertine and a symbol in the PUA so it should fit for everything.

@PabloGonzálezL it's presumably intended as a service for people who want to reference the bundle in their thesis.

@DavidCarlisle Well I'm looking to redefine \ell, which presumably is also \mathchardefed, it seems reasonable to also mathchardef its substitute?

@UlrikeFischer oh I didn't actually see what you were linking to just saw unicode-math..... (but you'd still need an OT math font as the main font if using unicode math) admittedly the example Umathchardef there doesn't actually need that

@1010011010 it may or may not be reasonable for a start if the ell in your font has position greater than 255 you can't use \mathchardef,

@DavidCarlisle Yesterday I asked myself that question while reviewing the dates and versions in oberdiek.tex... To all this, I did it all manually, can this task be automated?

@DavidCarlisle yes, and you need unicode-math, so no legacy math.

Crap, indeed

It's font position 305

Using your previous trick runs into issues related to newfontfamily

@PabloGonzálezL It presumably was automated in Heiko's original build but as all I'm doing now is deleting things it doesn't really matter as it will be gone.

@1010011010 no you did something wrong in that case

@DavidCarlisle It's a carbon copy from what I did earlier with the calligraphic font

Excluding the argument of course

Not sure what else to say

@1010011010 usual things: what was the input and what was the error:-)

Well, suppose we start with:

This works

@DavidCarlisle Ho, you're right, and I spent a good time playing with grep to update the dates and current versions in oberdiek.tex :( ...even leave it as a comment in git ...snif

Now one would naively say that this also works:

But it doesn't

Removing \numexpr makes no diff

Return message: Missing { inserted

To be read again

\edef

@1010011010 \ensuremath{\mthreedi\text{ is wrong (and not what I suggested) the whole point of the \text is to be able to use the text font switch so \text{\mthreedi

\XeTeXglyph\numexpr305\relax is the same as \XeTeXglyph 305 so that's its glyph index not its character code?

Glyph index indeed

And your little swap worked

Well, my little swap doesn't work is more accurate phrasing I suppose

@cis please elaborate

@cis how is that related to LaTeX? Isn't that more a math question?

@moewe could you tell the guy here how to add a language for apa: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/519068/…. I don't have the time now.

@daleif I want to TeX that

@cis yes but are you asking about the math or about how to typeset it?

@DavidCarlisle Please, is there a way how to use JPG in latex+dvips+pspdf or latex+dvipdfm mode?

or do I have to convert e.g. to png

@yo' dvips only supports eps (there is a nice converter shipped with tl for Windows, do not remember the name, not at pc). The other should support jpg but need to have dri er specified for graphicx. Converting to png would not change much

Why has Matlab such a weird syntax :( Can't it be as easy as TeX, or at least Python...

@daleif yeah, I'm fine now. I just struggle with this, it doesn't want to work:

\DeclareGraphicsExtensions{.jpg}{eps}{.eps}{`convert #1 -compess:lzw eps2:-}

@yo' she'll escape and a missing backping? Id normally convert by hand, too much can go wrong with these automated tools

@daleif "by hand..." You mean for i (**/*.jpg); do convert $i <stuff>; done

I think the tool I forgot the name of is called sam2p. Really cool piece of kit. Even nice to use to convert png to pdf for faster compilations

@daleif yes, sam2p is great. Didn't know it is shipped in TL on Windows.

@Skillmon something similar. I often fear the automated conversions via shell escape might hide errors or warnings.

@Skillmon I think it is, on Linux it does not, you need to get it from the Linux dist and I don't think it is in u 18.04

@daleif on Arch it is in the AUR.

I'm off, back in a few hours

@PauloCereda this picture made it to some old Overleaf template:

@yo' don't ever convert to PNG for LaTeX documents. This is the slowest file type there is to be used with TeX.

a2ping – Advanced PS, PDF, EPS converter

@PabloGonzálezL the problem is not what tool to use, but how to convince \includegraphics to use it :)

@Skillmon in the end it's EPS2-LZW everywhere, it's for dvips

@yo' I'm not sure the backtick still works, apparently allowing latex+dvips to run arbitrary system commands with full user permissions is frowned on these days.

@DavidCarlisle It does but only because it's hard-coded for unzipping

@JosephWright yes I know the gzip case works but you used to be able to put anything there.

@DavidCarlisle I dunno. I can run \immediate\write18{convert \x.jpg -compress lzw eps2:\x.eps} without any problem, but I wasn't able to tame \DeclareGraphicsRule

@yo' but that needs shell-escape, surely

@DavidCarlisle yep

but -shell-escape is a non-issue in docker :)

@egreg I got pinged about tex.stackexchange.com/a/519067/52406. I don't know if you were pinged. If not, now you are.

@yo' so all bets and all security are off in that case, try -R0 option to dvips to turn off security

@DavidCarlisle ?

@yo' you need dvips to run convert on the backtick and dvips --help says -R means run securely and -R0 says run without, not tried it but I would guess that is the issue

@yo' or of course just redefine \includegraphics to do that \immediate\write18 and so do the conversion from tex rather than from dvips

@DavidCarlisle well, I really just thought that the same way how EPS->PDF works in pdflatex, PNG->EPS could work in latex. And I know the command to run. I just don't know how to make \DeclareGraphicsExtension do the job (can it do it?)

@yo' when written you could just specify the convert in a backtick rule, but I'm not sure if dvips -R0 does allow that (and it's disabled by default) I can try later but need to go for a bit

@DavidCarlisle ok, thanks

@mickep About what?

@egreg About the change in systeme, I guess. (I guess you are mildly interested in this) :)

@mickep Oh, I see!

@mickep Fixed

@egreg That was quick. Cheers!

@yo' this works for me (needs --shell-escape`

Hi, may I ask a question about linux distros here? A little irrelevant but as experts I really love, I really want your ideas. If you find it irrelevant, I am sorry and please simply ignore it.

@DavidCarlisle is this an "official" way? :)

@yo' if I say it is, I guess it is

I am really interested in coding, not very professional as you but I have some experience in latex, recently I have learnt so much python, fortran, etc.

@DavidCarlisle well, either way, thanks a lot!

I want to start moving from windows ten to linux. Which distro is the best, you have best experience with?

@EnthusiasticEngineer we mostly use fedora at work, ubuntu is popular also, but strangely enough the most widely distributed linux system is likely to end up being the windows subsystem for linux in windows 10....

@EnthusiasticEngineer If you can, try out some common beginner ones in a VM. They are all great for their audience.

Thank you Carlisle and TeXnician

@egreg Good evening, Mr. egreg

I will try them. Once years ago i tried ubuntu but i did not like it. Too customized. There seems are lots of distros but I should find a distro which is best for weak laptops. My second laptop is a little old and performance is important.

I mostly like to learn to work with terminal codes. Too afraid of its hardness but i want to learn it.

@EnthusiasticEngineer not sure what you mean by "learn terminal codes" if you mean use the bash command line, then I do recommend the wsl, I use that (or cygwin) all day every day, i use a windows machine but interact almost always via a bash shell running in an xterm

Yes david, bash command i mean.

Though i do not know what xterm is, i should google it. It is a while i use windows command and powershell. Not complicated commands, simple ones.

@EnthusiasticEngineer just the classic command window for X windows, the unix/linux GUI

@cis Ciao!

@DavidCarlisle I suppose \Ginclude@ext has to be expandable, right?

@yo' no

@DavidCarlisle yeah, found out too. But any idea why \regex_replace_once:nnN fails in there?

I mean, it does not match the given string

some catcode fu?

@yo' blame @egreg ?

@DavidCarlisle why not :)

@yo' as part of this year's "support utf8 in filenames" changes, the filename and extension are all catcode 12 (or catcode 10 space), like \string

@DavidCarlisle well, remember I'm on TL18 :)

@yo' so were the dinosaurs

@DavidCarlisle neither dinosaurs nor Overleaf have an easy life :)

@yo' do the usual thing \def\z{#1}\show\z and see what string you are getting and why your regex doesn't match

@DavidCarlisle well, I've been using \GenericError{}{...}{}{}, does that one have any benefits?

@yo' mine has more z, and less internal processing and expansion so more likely to show the truth, the second one prettifies the output...

@yo' Or \tl_analysis_show:n (or :N) to see the meaning of each token...

@DavidCarlisle ok, but it won't show catcodes anyway

@PhelypeOleinik ah!

@yo' Letters will show as the letter X, and others will show as the character X

@yo' yes but it will show expansion, so if you are expecting foo.eps but actually have \Gin@base\Gin@ext then (a) your regex won't match and (b) GenericError will expand them out and not show the difference

@DavidCarlisle yeah, right

so it's :x instead of :n somewhere

@yo' and (c) I've been adding \def\z{..}\show\z for so many years it's hard to think of anything else.

@DavidCarlisle :)

@DavidCarlisle Great :) ... I left you a note in git again : ( ...sorry

@PabloGonzálezL yes I'll wait until Ina clears the uploads then git tag the releases before doing any cleanup edits.

@JosephWright you have been spotted:-)

@DavidCarlisle Yup, the Secret is out

@DavidCarlisle and it doesn't work together with exotic keyboard layouts :(

@DavidCarlisle and I doubt that. The most widely used Linux system is most likely some server image.

@DavidCarlisle ?

Ah I just saw the mail.

@EnthusiasticEngineer you can use Arch, performance is what ever you make out of it, and you have to setup everything yourself through the terminal... On a more serious note: If you want good performance and beginner friendliness, I'd say go with Xubuntu or Linux Mint Xfce or MX Linux (a good page to see loads of distributions is distrowatch.com)

@Skillmon yes well it depends how and what you count, but if you count desktop PCs with a linux kernel installed, that's quite likely to end up with a majority being part of a windows installation (although being installed and being used by the user are not quite the same thing:-)