ooh LuaTeX woes

@PauloCereda more windows woes - nobody can compile for me ;-((.

Did anyone here look at the new Garamond-Math font more carefully? Does it have any problems which typically means it is a no-no? (I just typesetted an exam with it, and in this simple case it looked fine.)

@UlrikeFischer I tried to cross compile, but I got so many errors and dependency issues...

@DavidCarlisle github.com/cereda/arara/issues/116

@PauloCereda there should be more issues like that

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@DavidCarlisle I'm down to 8 (5 failures and 3 unclear).

@UlrikeFischer I'll try here, thanks

@DavidCarlisle three of the failures are catcode tests: the tests sets all sort of catcodes to invalid and then load the package. And now they fail with e.g. < invalid.

@DavidCarlisle I made notes about the open questions in the notes.txt.

@DavidCarlisle btw: even luacolor will not complain if luatex disappears, it is only loaded in a ` \ifx\newattribute\@undefined `

@UlrikeFischer yes (in the git development version I changed that to ltluatex anyway)

@UlrikeFischer Error: failed to find .tlg, .tpf or .lve file for luatex-test1! do you have one locally?

Hi, not sure if this is alright, but I have a short question. (Please tell me if I should write it up)

I have used the approach in this question: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/159806/…

in order to print shorthands before my bibitems (that have them) like this: \AtEveryBibitem{\printfield{shorthand}\clearfield{shorthand}\quad}

but I would like to suppress the space that \quad generates before bibitems that do not have any shorthand to print

I realize as I write this that I should write a question instead. Sorry. I'll go and do that.

@DavidCarlisle sorry, I moved it to plain and forget to delete the lvt in the latex folder. just corrected.

@UlrikeFischer Ok I ran with l3build modified as suggested in the white space at start of line issue, so i got several diffs, but all looked "expected", had a quick look at your notes, the listings tests 3-5 are not in the dtx either I guess they just never got written...

@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer I'm travelling for work today: hopefully I can look at l3build stuff at the airport this afternoon ...

@JosephWright anywhere interesting?

@DavidCarlisle Frankfurt :)

@JosephWright last chance before next March?

I was wondering whether files posted here are archived somewhere. As I write in the comments to tex.stackexchange.com/a/170370/6819 I am searching for a xindy file for modern Icelandic sorting (icelandicmal.xdy) that was posted there a while ago.

@JosephWright the change suggested in the issue isn't right actually, i was trying to be clever and just remove one space even if (as happens) there are multiple spaces, but if the difference is 2 spaces v 3 removing one space from each doesn't help, so I think the options are to remove all white space at start of line or to just remove a single space in the cases that there is a single space at start of line followed by a non-space.

@DavidCarlisle Hah!

@DavidCarlisle If we go back to stripping spaces, we should zap all of them

@Florian not really, you can't post files as such to the site, just add the file contents to a posting in a code block, so you need to search for the contents not the file.

@JosephWright I suspect so, yes.

@UlrikeFischer make[3]: Leaving directory '/home/luahbtex/build-i386-pc-mingw32/libs/icu' ....

@DavidCarlisle does that mean you got over the icu problem Khaled mentioned?

@DavidCarlisle github.com/khaledhosny/luahbtex/releases Linux and macOS binaries

@ DavidCarlisle Thank you! The author of the post wrote that there was an encoding problem (these files are sort of compiled) that made him upload externally

Is there an English word like both, but for three items? (just curious)

@UlrikeFischer hard to tell yet, it may fail to link everything together at the end...

@Skillmon no, or at least not in common use.

@Florian oh yes, so he does, those links are still good though it seems.

@DavidCarlisle What options did you use?

@KhaledHosny ./build.sh --host=i386-pc-mingw32 --build=x86_64-unknown-cygwin

@UlrikeFischer @KhaledHosny it just finished:

/home/luahbtex/build-i386-pc-mingw32/libs/icu/icu-build/lib/libicuuc.a(udata.ao):udata.cpp:(.rdata$.refptr.icudt61_dat[.refptr.icudt61_dat]+0x0): undefined reference to `icudt61_dat'
collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [Makefile:8497: luahbtex.exe] Error 1
  AR       liblua53tex.a
  CC       luatexdir/luatex53-luatex.o
  CC       mplibdir/luatex53-lmplib.o
  CCLD     luatex53.exe
strip: 'build-i386-pc-mingw32/texk/web2c/luahbtex.exe': No such file
ls: cannot access 'build-i386-pc-mingw32/texk/web2c/luahbtex.exe': No such file or directory

hmmm :-)

@DavidCarlisle :(

@DavidCarlisle Most likely no one ever tried to MingW cross-compile ICU in TL since only XeTeX uses it and does not seem like there are MingW builds of XeTeX

@DavidCarlisle the new xetex I downloaded yesterday for the test had a (new) dll icudt63.dll. (my current texlive has no icu-dll at all).

@DavidCarlisle can you still access the files?! I have been trying for days and the server won't resond

Hmm, TL build files for ICU do have provisions for cross compiling, but no idea how actively used

@Florian oh sorry I got as far as the download file dialog, but didn't actually try. Yes it hangs

@DavidCarlisle dang! that would have been an easy (though embarrassing) solution to my problem ;)

@KhaledHosny @UlrikeFischer does Akira compile natively with ms tools rather than cross compiling do you know? (I could get access to visual studio but wouldn't want to convert the make system to an msbuild project)

@DavidCarlisle I think he uses MSVC, but I don't know his exact setup. Using MSVC with autotools is tricky.

@DavidCarlisle no idea. Should I ask him?

@UlrikeFischer up to Khaled really, I have no time (or skill) to debug this, so if I type ./Build and it doesn't build then I have to give up. If Akira would agree to look at @KhaledHosny's repo and suggest a build environment that would work for windows then I could try, but Khaled may think it's still too experimental to ask other developers to build

@DavidCarlisle OK - probably this is simply a cunning plan to force me to try out the linux subsystem ;-).

For a small preprint handed to us in Word, I decided to use biblatex to see if I can format it like they did by hand or however they made it. I'm using standard authoryear. One issue: by is editors prefixed by Ed. by? I cannot figure out how to change this to Ed./Eds. Ideas?

@daleif maybe tex.stackexchange.com/a/374531/36296 could help?

@daleif or ask a question on the main site, @moewe seems to be online at the moment, so you should get a solution immediately.

@samcarter that actually does help, change the embeded byeditor+othersstrg to byeditor+othersstrg. Now I just need to put () around the whole thing.

@daleif tex.stackexchange.com/a/277313/36296 ?

@samcarter that only puts Ed. in (), I want (Ed. name). Do you have relevant pointers on how to change and entire type driver? I have a single @inproceedings, where they wanted In: booktitle, publisher. (Ed. editor). The default @inproceedings places publisher last after everything else (even note)

@daleif I think the quickest way would be to hack the \DeclareBibliographyDriver macro for @inproceedings Can you give me the .bib entry and with which options you load biblatex?

(or some dummy bib entry with the same fields filled)

@samcarter I just figured out where the driver is defined, I think I can hack it from there. Thanks

@daleif Be careful that the driver is not driving too fast :)

hmm, just got an email from an emeritur professor at a different department. He's writing in EXP, and is asked to hand in in Word. He can convert to some sort of LaTeX, but is there any good/easy conversions of math to Word?

@daleif oh that's going back a bit, this? expswp.com

@DavidCarlisle Exactly. I thought they we defunct. Apparently not. I don't have any experience with converting ,math heavy docs to Word. Anyone else?

I just saw some of the generated code from EXP. Yikes. Everybodys friend \textal over the place (presumably user who does not know how to use things right)

@daleif I half wondered if it generated latex 2.09

@DavidCarlisle looks like 2e ,but uses packages not available (like swp). It would be interesting to see if \text{cos} and friends is general. Also it makes figure paths absolute, interesting now I know stuff abouts your computer... Haven't looked too deep. But chances to make a clean conversion seems slim when it is doing equation numbering by hand etc

@L3 team: Why is \CoffinWidth in xcoffins created non-expandable? From what I can see, everything in it is expandable.

@daleif Exp 6.0 claims to be able to convert to PowerPoint. Maybe it is easier to go to Word format from that?

@mickep where is that information? I can only find information that the exp view version cannot convert to PowerPoint. I do suspect that it exports the math as gfx, the user in this case needs a editable word file including math

@daleif See the pdf link in this page

(I have one linear algebra book written in EXP)

@daleif if it's only 100s of equations not thousands then it probably makes sense to essentially just redo it in Word, get the text as text and enter the tex math into words "tex-like" linear form math zones.

@DavidCarlisle isn't there something about ms removing the build in math support in word. My it department mentioned this at some point. So typing in the math might be hard if you don't want to pay for math type or what ever that plug in is called

@mickep it would be interesting to see if that is included as actual math or images. The example on page 8 is clearly gfx (for inclusion in other programs), but an earlier example is not so clear. I'll send him these suggestions tomorrow

@DavidCarlisle It was too much TikZ? Just wondering if you did look at my archive error again.

@cfr sorry basically yes. despite the fact that I just posted a brilliant tikz answer to Peter Grill's question I really know nothing, and your example is a bit big to debug just by following your nose:-) I may have another look but I'm not optimistic.

@DavidCarlisle What exactly is the difference in the execution of of \cmd[opt]{arg1}{arg2} and \cmd{arg1}{arg2}[opt]?

There has to be something subtle for it to not be working.

@vlg they are different calls so it depends entirely on the definition of \cmd. for example \usepackage[foo]{array} loads array package with option foo but \usepackage{array}[2018/01/01] loads array checking it is at least that date.

Assume I'm not calling packages, what the minimum I'd need to know? Or where could I read up?

@vlg I was just using \usepackage as an example of a command with two optional arguments.

Because to some degree it work, but to another I get those lovely extra alignment tabs.

@vlg have you defined \cmd with two optional arguments, one at the start and one at the end?

No.

@vlg so I do not understand your question then

What is the difference between having the optional argument at the end and at the beginning

@vlg as I say it depends on what \cmd defines its arguments to do, they are completely unrelated calls. in the case of \usepackage the first argument is passed to the package, but the last argument, if it is used is not passed to the package but is used to check the date.

@vlg that just defines a command with a first optional argument and 7 mandatory ones.

So I can't put it at the end..?

@vlg no, not with that definition.

Okay, since the wiki doesn't go into depth regarding definitions and optional args, what do you recommend I do or read or ?

Telling me they're different calls doesn't tell me the more important HOW they're different

@vlg newcommand only defines initial optional arguments, you could look in source2e for how latex defines commands with more than one (\usepackage, \newtheorem \makebox etc) or look at the xparse package for a very general way of defining commands with different argument signatures.

@vlg it's like asking how \fshekem and \kshbey are different, there is no necessary relation at all, it just depends on the definitions used.

xparse doc it is then, because I'm not getting anything else.

@vlg here is a command \zz with two optional arguments, but note it isn't one argument that can go anywhere, the first option is used for the first () text and the final option is used for the third () text but these two options could be used for unrelated uses, and you can have none, or just one or both of them:

\documentclass{article}

\newcommand\zz[2][xxx]{(#1)(#2)\zzb}
\newcommand\zzb[1][yyy]{(#1)}

\begin{document}

\zz{aaa}

\zz[111]{aaa}

\zz{aaa}[222]

\zz[111]{aaa}[222]


\end{document}

Why do people know these things?

@UlrikeFischer YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY (German version, just for you)

@vlg which is a more useful conversation topic in the pub: the history of comic book idioms, or the behaviour of latex optional arguments?

I'd say that'd depend on the amount of free time on your belly

I'd say it's a miracle optional arguments even exist, that >1 can exist is mind-melting, or at least seems so when my blood glucose is like 2.1mM

@DavidCarlisle it's funny, I've had more meaningful* contact with you over the past 1.5 years than any other new hooman bean

@vlg \makebox[3cm][l]{zzzz} two optional arguments one a length and one an alignment

WOW, it works! you're blowin' my mind

if you've ever had low blood sugar, you might've notice how easy it weasy it is to entertain yourself...

@vlg I created a macro which takes an arbitrary number of optional arguments once...

@Skillmon you myust be a very enlightened individual , and highly entertained at that

@DavidCarlisle Your example actually made everything clear, I think I can finally solve my problem

@egreg enjoy the Man U match?

@DavidCarlisle Quite. It ended at 80'.

@egreg just saw a clip at the end of the news, they only showed the last few minutes

@egreg Don't worry, you are and I hope you will always be of help to me and other users. A very big greeting.

@DavidCarlisle OK. Thanks. I wish there were better debugging tools for it. It just doesn't tell me anything.

@DavidCarlisle imho github.com/ho-tex/oberdiek/issues/8 is fixed and can be closed ...

@UlrikeFischer thanks

@DavidCarlisle perhaps all the issue from the same date of Denis are fixed too but it is now to late to check ;-). (And I just learned from the new issue, that footnotes issue an \ignorespaces - I didn't know this ;-)).

@UlrikeFischer yes looks like I should probably fix that one

@DavidCarlisle has hypertext test files too?

@UlrikeFischer github.com/ho-tex/hyperref/tree/master/test

@DavidCarlisle I will check them too. I made a bundle.csv of the packages with some comments (but it is not finished).

@UlrikeFischer just saw that arrive:-)

@UlrikeFischer I should probably get the ctan packaging done via l3build as well, originally it used all kinds of shell scripting to and xml tools to re-create the layout I adopted from ctan (with no build mechanism at all:-) but as I got rid of the xml/xslt parts last release I think it should be a more or less standard l3build now, which would make merging the tests back in more consisyent