TeX, LaTeX and Friends

Harald Hanche-Olsen

05:34

The link to this chat from the main tex.se page seems to be coming and going a lot. When it's gone, I have to go to meta to find the link. Am I the only one to find this annoying?

TeXnician

@HaraldHanche-Olsen The link to this chat is permanently in the drop-down menu which says "StackExchange" (top left corner). I don't know what you mean with coming and going...

CarLaTeX

@HaraldHanche-Olsen See the answers to this question: tex.meta.stackexchange.com/q/7346/101651

Harald Hanche-Olsen

06:02

@TeXnician Good grief! I have used that dropdown for years, without noting the itty-bitty chat link in it! What I meant by coming and going, is the link in the right margin. You'll find it as a permanent (?) fixture on meta. @CarLaTeX Thanks for the link. Interesting to note that it's also on the bottom of the page – a place I rarely, if ever, look at.

CarLaTeX

06:19

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Nobody looks at the bottom of the page, unfortunately also the ones who should read the help :)

mickep

It would be nice if the chat link was always present as in the answer by samcarter. That would probably make this chat even more popular.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

07:10

Oh wait … that chat link in the dropdown sends me to a list of chat rooms, not directly to the TeX chat. So it's still two clicks to get here from there.

@CarLaTeX But fortunately, the help is also available at the top, where it is way more likely (maybe about 1% chance, as opposed to 0.01% chance) that people will see it.

CarLaTeX

@HaraldHanche-Olsen :)

Ulrike Fischer

08:11

@JosephWright: Regarding the texhax question about graphics: I assume an older system, I get the error with TL15. But while looking at it I found something curious. I get not visible output from the image with this here:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{graphics}

\begin{document}

%\fbox{\includegraphics[viewport=0 0 100 100]{example-image.pdf}} %works fine with graphicx

 \fbox{\includegraphics[100,100]{example-image.pdf}} %nothing to be seen


\end{document}

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer @DavidCarlisle is dealing with the space business at the moment: probably look at this at the same time

Joseph Wright

08:44

@UlrikeFischer Ah: with the graphics code the bbox data is being set so \Gread@<name> is never called and the image file is never actually read (that happens during reading as for pdfTeX things are cached)

@DavidCarlisle ^^^

@UlrikeFischer Like you, I never use the graphics syntax and I think here we have an issue in that it's not that well supported in reality (the team don't particularly like it, most people want the flexibility of the keyval approach, etc.)

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright then it was a good trick to insert an error when the old syntax is used ;-). I found a few questions with the error message and the general advice was "use graphicx instead". Here is one tex.stackexchange.com/questions/234577/…

Joseph Wright

09:00

@UlrikeFischer I'll discuss with the team: graphics is in Lamport's book so it really has to work

Paulo Cereda

09:59

Quack!

TeXnician

@PauloCereda Quack!

Paulo Cereda

@TeXnician 'ello! :)

Paulo Cereda

10:25

I had no idea there was an eclipse going on. Yesterday I was in São Paulo during the whole day and it was very cloudy and wet. And when I read my news feed, since I have a lot of tech entries, I thought the mentions of an eclipse were referring to something related to the Eclipse IDE, a very famous Java development environment.

Paulo Cereda

10:52

@egreg and I will soon announce checkcites 2.0!

Ulrike Fischer

12:04

@PauloCereda Eclipse: When the Great Dark Duck moves in front of the sun.

5

CarLaTeX

@UlrikeFischer Total eclipse of the duck :)

Bonnie Tyler - Total Eclipse of the Heart

►

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer ooh

@CarLaTeX OH NO, NOW THE SONG IS STUCK INSIDE MY HEAD

Time to counterattack...

Read this carefully: now, THE FINAL COUNTDOWN intro is playing inside your head.

mickep

is not!

Paulo Cereda

hm I need to work on my mind control techniques. :)

CarLaTeX

12:23

@PauloCereda But it's a gorgeous song! :):):)

Paulo Cereda

@CarLaTeX no. :D

@CarLaTeX: this is far more relevant:

Solar Eclipse of the Heart

►

CarLaTeX

@PauloCereda LOL

Paulo Cereda

@CarLaTeX Welcome to my world. :)

Ulrike Fischer

@PauloCereda Imagine a duck as moon and then it is really great ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer ooooooh <3

For some reason, everytime I see people mentioning Javier's name around, I think, "Oh, it's the babel maintainer and Amazon owner.". :)

samcarter

12:54

@UlrikeFischer In case your Great Duck need a place to be worshipped in, there seems to be a bird shaped church available: atlasobscura.com/places/…

Ulrike Fischer

13:22

@samcarter My duck is roaming free in the universe ...

samcarter

@UlrikeFischer Does it obey gravity?

Ulrike Fischer

@samcarter It swims on the gravity waves.

samcarter

@UlrikeFischer Oh that explains a lot! When the LIGO people classify their gravitational wave data, there is an event class called "paired doves" (looks like panoptes-uploads.zooniverse.org/production/…). Maybe they should better rename it to ducks?

Harald Hanche-Olsen

The ways of the duck are mysterious indeed.

Paulo Cereda

I have no idea of what is going on here, so I will throw a random fact about ducks: all ducks have highly waterproof feathers as a result of an intricate feather structure and a waxy coating that is spread on each feather while preening. A duck's feathers are so waterproof that even when the duck dives underwater, its downy underlayer of feathers right next to the skin will stay completely dry.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

13:36

@PauloCereda Same with geese, and swans. But cormorants are not so lucky. Which is why you often see them, wings outstretched, drying themselves.

Ulrike Fischer

@PauloCereda and in the vakuum this structure traps the light, that's why the Great Duck is so dark ...

Paulo Cereda

13:51

@HaraldHanche-Olsen ooh

@UlrikeFischer ooh science

Ducks are omnivorous, opportunistic eaters and will eat grass, aquatic plants, insects, seeds, fruit, fish, crustaceans and other types of food. Some ducks, such as mergansers, are more specialized in their dietary needs, but most ducks can adapt well to different food sources. This helps ensure they always have adequate food to eat. Also, some ducks are fond of industrialized food, such as Pringles and pizza.

CarLaTeX

@samcarter With all this talking about the dark side of the Force... what about a Jedi duck and a Duck Vader one?

samcarter

@CarLaTeX Oj, I already see the colourful lightsabers :)

CarLaTeX

@samcarter :):):)

Paulo Cereda

Why do I have the feeling that this Dark Side talk will bring @ChristianHupfer out of nowhere? :)

It is a myth that a duck's quack won't echo. This has been conclusively disproved through different scientific acoustic tests, and was even featured as "busted" on an episode of the Discovery Channel show Mythbusters.

samcarter

@PauloCereda Is there a random duck fact site where you get this from?

Paulo Cereda

14:00

@samcarter Yes, I have them on bookmark. :)

samcarter

@PauloCereda :) very convenient!

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter We must be prepared. :)

barbara beeton

@PauloCereda -- while some ducks may like, even crave, pringles, pizza, or bread, it isn't very good for them. you should be more interested in their welfare!

Paulo Cereda

@barbarabeeton oh no! That means I should go on a diet too.

barbara beeton

@PauloCereda -- that's up to you and your conscience. look down. if you can't see your toes, then that should be a warning. otherwise, moderation is generally a good idea.

Paulo Cereda

14:05

@barbarabeeton I am quite fit for the moment, but I admit I've been eating far too much lately. I tried to blame on the winter, but it will soon be over, and my excuse will be busted.

Ducks are mostly aquatic birds living in both fresh water and sea water and found on every continent except for Antarctica.

ooh I could be famous and go to Antarctica.

samcarter

@PauloCereda "The Sunset Dinner, a tradition at the South Pole to mark the transition into about five months of darkness, was held on March 26th. The chefs served three courses: a salad made from vegetables grown in the station greenhouse, crispy duck and bison steak for the main entrée, and a selection of desserts, which included crème brûlée, chocolate truffles and a fruit salad. "

I am afraid there had already been duck at the south pole (cite antarcticsun.usap.gov/aroundTheContinent/…)

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter OH NO

samcarter

@PauloCereda and it did not end well for the duck ...

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter HO NO

samcarter

14:24

Is my tex distribution broken or does the following example not compile with the current CTAN beamer version and pdflatex?

\documentclass{beamer}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}

\begin{document}

\begin{frame}
test
\end{frame}

\end{document}

Joseph Wright

@samcarter What happens?

samcarter

@JosephWright I get Font T1/cmss/m/n/4=ecss0400 at 4.0pt not loadable: Metric (TFM) file not found. \end{frame} (The development version on github works fine)

Ulrike Fischer

@samcarter Imho this bug has been resolved. On my system it works.

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Which version do you have?

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright 2017/07/13 v3.42, but perhaps it only works as I have the tfm.

Joseph Wright

14:29

@UlrikeFischer Could be: I do see the failure

@samcarter I'll sort out a release asap

samcarter

@JosephWright Thank you very much!

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright Ah yes, in miktex the issue is still there. texlive works as it creates the tfm, at least for me.

Joseph Wright

@samcarter Have to work out how as I no longer have a Mac (probably will build on a VM)

Ulrike Fischer

@samcarter a work around is to use \usepackage{lmodern}.

samcarter

@UlrikeFischer Yes, I actually have this in most of my files -- so I only noticed the problem a week after updating :)

Paulo Cereda

14:33

Ducklings are able to walk just a few hours after they are born, and are already born with the soft, yellow downy covering that we associate with chicks of all sorts. This is known as being precocial, which means to be mobile and relatively mature soon after birth.

yo'

@PauloCereda are you citing your (fictional) thesis?

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Nah my thesis is quite boring. :) But I can add those sentences as epigraphs. :)

3

Harald Hanche-Olsen

15:23

@PauloCereda I think ducklings are hatched, not born. The most amazing ducks are the ones that nest in trees, I think. Newly hatched ducklings have to jump to get to water and, more importantly food. It's a nice example of how scaling works in physics – the lighter you are, the bigger a fall you can survive.

Paulo Cereda

@HaraldHanche-Olsen oh!

@barbarabeeton, @AlanMunn et. al: ^^ LOL

scholar.google.nl/citations?user=qGuYgMsAAAAJ&hl=en

Also: ideophone.org/some-things-you-need-to-know-about-google-scholar

Harald Hanche-Olsen

15:42

@PauloCereda Amusing reading. Linkedin recently suggested to my niece that four of my papers were actually hers. Two of them were published before she was born.

Paulo Cereda

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Really? That's fantastic. I remember ResearchGate once asked me if one amongst a set of photos was of my advisor (he does not have a photo in his profile). One of the photos was of a very important 19th century chemist.

barbara beeton

@PauloCereda -- and some little ducks (e.g. wood ducks) can swim possibly before they can really walk. there must be some videos of little wood ducks popping out of the nest hole right into the water. (but i haven't looked.)

Paulo Cereda

@barbarabeeton oh I must find those videos!

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@barbarabeeton In the videos I have seen, they wind up on land, not in the water. They still manage to get there somehow, though I wouldn't call what they do walking.

barbara beeton

@PauloCereda -- oh, quite jolly! i wonder if one needs to write a mathematical paper to have an erdős number? if not, i think i may have one.

Paulo Cereda

15:51

@barbarabeeton Really? That's amazing! I do not have an Erdős number, and I am afraid I will never have. :)

barbara beeton

@PauloCereda -- what you need to do is find someone else who has an erdős number, then co-author a paper with that person. your resulting erdős number will be one greater than that of your co-author. this can go on for generations!

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@PauloCereda youtube.com/watch?v=_cmHNzJdqVI

Paulo Cereda

@HaraldHanche-Olsen awww <3

@barbarabeeton ooh good plan!

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@PauloCereda one more. Here they land, in slo-mo: youtube.com/watch?v=JkBSkFyUyv0

Paulo Cereda

@HaraldHanche-Olsen awwww <3

@barbarabeeton: see Harald's last link. One for Gordon, surely. :)

yo'

16:08

@barbarabeeton by Erdös' own research, you very likely have an Erdös number, unless you know that you "live" in a small component.

It's actually a nice pun that Erdös number research is closely related to one of the biggest Erdös research topics.

Paulo Cereda

@yo' ooh

samcarter

@barbarabeeton It does not need to be a paper, a baseball seems to work, too. youtube.com/watch?v=aCq04N9it8U

barbara beeton

@samcarter -- well, last year i was co-author with richard palais on a paper about tex published in visible language. dick has an erdős number of 3. so, depending on how tight the rules are, ...

Paulo Cereda

@barbarabeeton Hey, I share a script authorship with @egreg, does that mean I inherit his number thingy + 1 too? :D

If I recall correctly, @egreg has a number of 3 or 4.

samcarter

16:23

@barbarabeeton ohhh, now we all probably try to find a way to co-author something with you. My own E-number is only 7, but the paper to get me to 6 is already submitted to the journal ...

barbara beeton

@PauloCereda -- @egreg isn't in the list at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_by_Erd%C5%91s_number

@samcarter -- but my paper isn't a mathematical paper, so, as i said, it depends ... (but i'd be very pleased to have an erdős number.)

Paulo Cereda

Sep 29 '11 at 15:02, by egreg

@PauloCereda My Erdős number is 3.

David Carlisle

@JosephWright [a,b][c,d] in the graphic-s syntax should be the same [bb=a b c d] in the graphic-x

samcarter

@barbarabeeton In my opinion "mathematical" is no requirement - my next 4 steps to erdős are all physicists...

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda publish it in a refereed journal...

Paulo Cereda

16:30

@DavidCarlisle /sob

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Yes I know, but graphics doesn't look up the bbox if it has this info: try \tracingall

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes saw the comment, will look later (just got in:-)

@JosephWright that was originally rather the point of specifying the bbox in latex so tex didn't need to access the file at all, pdftex's built in driver wasn't part of the plan:-)

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@barbarabeeton If Visible Language is peer reviewed, I'd say you definitely have an Erdős number. But you would perhaps not get it listed on on MathSciNet, where only publications reviewed in MR get counted(?). When I look myself up there, I notice it says MR Erdos Number [sic].

David Carlisle

@JosephWright meanwhile I've sketched out what I think I want the plan to be for multiple dots, but not fully implemented it yet. I think if aa.bb.png is going to be recognised as a .png file then \includegraphics{aa.bb} has got to work as well, trying the extensions from the current list rather than (as now) treating it as an unknown extension .bb which means almost all the "unknown extension" code needs to be moved to be done after the "try to add extension",

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Sounds reasonable

David Carlisle

16:38

@JosephWright ending up with a logic that's similar but different to grffile (but not much like the current graphics/x at all...)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle :)

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@PauloCereda My own egreg number is 5. But my Erdős number is 4.

David Carlisle

@JosephWright hopefully I can make a plausible compatibility story...

Paulo Cereda

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Really? Cool!

Harald Hanche-Olsen

Actually I have three co-authors all of whom have Erdős number 3.

Paulo Cereda

16:43

@HaraldHanche-Olsen that's even cooler!

Harald Hanche-Olsen

Found a fourth one.

mickep

17:03

My egreg-number is 6, and my Erdős number is 4.

barbara beeton

@HaraldHanche-Olsen -- ah, thanks! visible language is peer reviewed. i know that mathscinet is quite selective. the list i looked at was on wikipedia and i don't know where they got their information; certainly mathematicians and mathematical writings are the bulk of what would be expected to get an erdős number.

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Search your feelings ... I am always present in one form or in another one ;-)

yo'

@mickep how did you get to know your egreg number?

mickep

@yo' From MathSciNet (it would have been cool if it was lower)

@yo' I searched for myself, and then there is a link "Collaboration distance".

yo'

@mickep so my @egreg number is <=5 and Erdös number is 3 (unrecognized by MSC).

mickep

17:16

@yo' Cool!

yo'

@mickep it seems quite certain that the egreg number is 5

barbara beeton

17:42

@yo' -- no, i'm sure @egreg will be happy to learn that his erdős number is 3! see ams.org/mathscinet/…

@yo' -- and yours is 4: ams.org/mathscinet/…

yo'

@barbarabeeton mine is three, actually, as "pelantova" and "sinajova" are one and the very same person: genealogy.ams.org/id.php?id=46746

barbara beeton

@yo' -- okay, then math reviews is either incorrect/out-of-date, or you have a connection that's not listed in mathscinet.

yo'

@barbarabeeton there's one person known as two persons :-)

barbara beeton

@yo' -- now that is fascinating. you should inform mr of this oddity. (i have some connections. if you provide details, i'll be happy to annoy them.)

yo'

@barbarabeeton well, I know that Edita does not care, and I'm not exactly willing to step in, actually.

@barbarabeeton She's correctly listed in the MGP, which I consider much more important, actually.

mickep

17:53

@yo' somebody writing under a pseudonym?

yo'

@mickep if you consider maiden names "pseudonyms", then yes :-)

mickep

Ah, I see.

Paulo Cereda

Ducky McDuck.

barbara beeton

@yo' -- what's the "mgp"?

yo'

@barbarabeeton Mathematics genealogy project

barbara beeton

17:58

@yo' -- ah. these "tla"s confuse me at times. i think i'll annoy my mr contacts.

yo'

@barbarabeeton they can, yes.

@barbarabeeton well, if you think it's so crucial. I think some people around her will be surprised, because they know about the problem (well, all about a dozen people whose Erdös number relies on her at least), but feel it similarly as I do.

Paulo Cereda

@yo' ^^ being yourself a mathematician, how wacky do you think I am in explicitly defining the set of letters and digits with an ASCII table? :)

yo'

@PauloCereda depends on the purpose. However, if letras and digitos are not mathematical objects you plan to call this way, I would not write it this way.

Paulo Cereda

@yo' they are math things. :)

yo'

@PauloCereda and will you ever write for $x\in\mathrm{letras}$?

Paulo Cereda

18:06

@yo' That was actually my plan. Was it too bad? Because letras and dígitos are Portuguese words. I can use letters to represent them, if you think it's too wacky.

barbara beeton

@yo' -- well, i've done it. i kept the report very impersonal. we'll see what happens.

yo'

@PauloCereda it's not bad, just not something I'd do :-)

Paulo Cereda

@yo' <3

@yo': now that you mention it (and sorry if it's a silly question), what's the difference (if any) between \mathrm{foo} and \text{foo}?

yo'

@PauloCereda in a theorem (given the standard style), \text{...} would make it italic

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Ah, gotcha!

@yo' Thanks, Tom! <3

yo'

18:11

@PauloCereda you're welcome

Alan Munn

18:25

@PauloCereda I.e., \text' adapts to the local environment, \mathrm` doesn't.

Paulo Cereda

@AlanMunn got it. :)

@AlanMunn A simple search/replace did the job. :)

How I love Lucida.

CarLaTeX

@PauloCereda The Scottish cousin of prof. van Duck :)

mickep

@PauloCereda I also love Lucida. I'm so happy I bought them.

Paulo Cereda

@mickep Me too! :)

@UlrikeFischer, @Johannes_B, @ChristianHupfer ^^ Now I am scared. :)

Alan Munn

19:00

@PauloCereda FYI tex.stackexchange.com/q/19502/2693

Paulo Cereda

@AlanMunn Thank you!

barbara beeton

19:41

-- heh, heh. here's the response i got: "Barbara,
Thank you for the detective work!" (i know the mr guys. they do like to maintain a high standard of accuracy.) so thank *you* for the authoritative information.

yo'

@barbarabeeton well, they seem to know you quite well :-) Anyway, thanks for caring and, well, you are welcome!

egreg

@barbarabeeton I did know it!

David Carlisle

19:57

@barbarabeeton MathSciNet is available by subscription only. it says at that link:-)

@PauloCereda the content of \mathrm is math, the content of \text is text (there is a clue in the name)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda compare \mathrm{x^y} and \text{x^y}

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle got it. :)

yo'

@DavidCarlisle and ${\rm x^y}$ (and if you ever claim I mentioned this, I'll deny)

David Carlisle

@yo' well that's just the same as \mathrm, really.

barbara beeton

20:06

@yo' -- the executive editor used to be one of the acquisition editors here. he has a strong interest in music, and his daughter (1) plays the cello, (2) for several years, after her graduation from college, was a music librarian for the boston symphony and tanglewood, and (3) has now taken a position with the san francisco symphony. so, yes, we are well acquainted.

@DavidCarlisle -- oh, yes. i usually fail to think of that -- since i'm "inside", access is unlimited. (apologies.)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle: let's celebrate the number thingy by sending a pineapple pizza to @egreg.

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda nah, he's Italian, he probably has one every day anyway, no need to send him more.

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle :)

David Carlisle

visited one of the Mozart family residences yesterday, where they were offering this piece of high culture

4

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle YEEEEES

@DavidCarlisle This is high culture indeed

David Carlisle

20:14

@PauloCereda my euros stayed in my pocket

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle /sob

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda but I did eat duck for dinner

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh no

Christian Hupfer

4

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer ooooooh

Christian Hupfer

20:20

@PauloCereda: The Martin Luther Church Reformer Duck ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer oooooh

yo'

@ChristianHupfer well, it's the anniversary anyway!

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Almost anything Chancellor Merkel says or does is quite scary ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Oh I didn't know!

@ChristianHupfer Now in Minecraft. :)

barbara beeton

@ChristianHupfer -- but less scary than the donald, no?

yo'

20:21

@PauloCereda 500 years since the Theses

Christian Hupfer

@barbarabeeton Well, of course, but that's not really difficult, is it? ;-)

barbara beeton

@yo' -- i thought that was "the 96 theses".

@ChristianHupfer -- sad but true.

yo'

@barbarabeeton oh, right!

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Ah, interesting!

Christian Hupfer

@barbarabeeton 95 theses ... @PauloCereda... Luther the man with the 95 theses ;-)

yo'

20:23

@PauloCereda we're celebrating by including more Luther's songs into the services :)

Paulo Cereda

95 theses... and I ain't got one done...

3

@yo' ooh :)

barbara beeton

@yo' -- does that mean that @PauloCereda -- will have 94 more to go after he completes the one he's working on, just to catch up? (corrected because @ChristianHupfer is correct.)

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer That guy was prolific!

@barbarabeeton It might take a while... a long while.

barbara beeton

@yo' -- i know only one definite attribution, but that one's most certainly very powerful.

Christian Hupfer

@barbarabeeton @PauloCereda @yo': My fiancée is from the same city where Luther translated the bible from Hebrew/Latin into German as first man ever -- that version became the "German" as a base for the language. There's the Luther Chamber on the Wartburg with the famous ink spot...

Paulo Cereda

20:26

@ChristianHupfer really? That's awesome!

yo'

@barbarabeeton there're especially texts, but he certainly composed Ein feste Burg

Paulo Cereda

Ein kleine Ente!

barbara beeton

@yo' -- and mendelssohn made very fine reference to it.

yo'

@barbarabeeton well, speaking of references, you might like this (and @Paulo, too):

CONTINUUM - Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott

►

Christian Hupfer

Martin Luther

Martin Luther (; German: [ˈmaɐ̯tiːn ˈlʊtɐ]; 10 November 1483 – 18 February 1546), O.S.A., was a German professor of theology, composer, priest, monk and a seminal figure in the Protestant Reformation. Luther came to reject several teachings and practices of the Roman Catholic Church. He strongly disputed the Catholic view on indulgences as he understood it to be, that freedom from God's punishment for sin could be purchased with money. Luther proposed an academic discussion of the practice and efficacy of indulgences in his Ninety-five Theses of 1517. His refusal to renounce all of his writings...

Paulo Cereda

20:29

@yo' lovely!

yo'

@PauloCereda do you know the original song? The jazz version nicely incorporates it :-)

Paulo Cereda

@yo' yes, that's why I am smiling here. :)

barbara beeton

@yo' -- interesting. i could be mistaken, but i think it's in a different key than what i'm used to hearing. but the melody is certainly there.

yo'

@barbarabeeton it's quite high, give me a second

@barbarabeeton The jazz version is in D, the usual key is C

barbara beeton

@yo' -- not a great difference then, but enough to be noticeable. (i haven't got perfect pitch, but sometimes a melody just sounds different, and not because of the jazz variation.)

yo'

20:43

8

A: Able to recall music in its correct key, but don't have perfect pitch -- what is it called?

I think what you are describing is known as "partial pitch". This is when the starting note of a well known or recent melody can be retained, or a note that's often played for tuning up purposes. I developed it myself for the pitch of my tuning fork, when after a couple of weeks practice I would ...

@barbarabeeton I tell you, there's a nice e-piano (Clavinova) in the church. Sometimes other people set the transposition to one or two semitones (usually down). When i sit there and this is set up, I first feel uneasy because the piano just isn't a piano. Then suddenly my hands jump the one or two semitones up so that the notes I see on the sheet are played :-)

Related thing: I can't play the guitar and sing with guitars when they're in tune but not on A440. It also means I can't tune a guitar by ear, because I can't pick up the A440 pitch, I can only realize it while singing.

barbara beeton

@yo' -- yes, sounds about right. i can't sing worth anything -- after a bad bout of laryngitis when i was in college (almost two weeks unable to talk without squeaking) i lost whatever singing voice i ever had -- but i still drive gordon crazy by humming along with lots of what's on the car radio. and i'm sensitive to different tempi, and complain when i think something is too slow or too fast. except when i think an interpretation is absolutely brilliant; then i'll forgive a great deal.

yo'

@barbarabeeton tempo is a great deal, but I tell you: after years of practice as an organist and with a small rehearsal with a handful of the congregation members, I can sing almost any hymn I know in almost any reasonable tempo, while making it sound proper and pleasant.

Paulo Cereda

@barbarabeeton don't get angry with Daniel Barenboim. :)

yo'

@barbarabeeton @PauloCereda Anyway, the jazz sounds great, I'm buying the album!

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Yay!

barbara beeton

21:00

@PauloCereda -- never have and don't expect to. but i've been surprised by some other musicians -- michael tilson thomas has recorded some works accompanying piano rolls by composers like gershwin, and they are almost always played faster than is common these days. i don't think it's a function of the technology, but more likely tastes have changed.

Paulo Cereda

@barbarabeeton :)

Transcript for

$TeX - LaTeX$ TeX, LaTeX and Friends