TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2017-01-25

« first day (2278 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (2655 days later) »

8:01 AM

@JosephWright more tuenc changes for pl1 I suppose..

8:49 AM

Hallo friends! I marked this question as duplicate: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/350328/… but the OP told me that the old question (one year ago) is too old (!). In cases like this what should we tell the OP? Edit the old question and ask for update?

He says also that the math books in the old question are few...

@DavidCarlisle Yes: suggest we give it to the weekend

@CarLaTeX The point of a Q&A is that you don't re-answer the same questions

@CarLaTeX Bounty is the way to bring attention

@CarLaTeX He's likely on to a looser

Anyone mind having a look at this one

2

Q: TeX's \write command sometimes induces a spurious vertical space

in the process of debugging a problem with FiXme (reported by Lars Madsen), I fell on this issue which I'm afraid is beyond my expertise. Consider the following MWE: \documentclass{memoir} \usepackage{amsmath,amsthm} \newtheorem{theorem}{Theorem} \begin{document} \begin{theorem} Theorem \be...

spacing tex-core write

I think someone once explained to me what the issues was, but I've now forgotten.

9:04 AM

@daleif \write creates a whatsit on the MVL

@JosephWright OK, I'll tell him to start a bounty (I don't know exactly what a looser is...)

@JosephWright THat was my guess, but I still do not understand why it affects vertical spacing.

I'll off for a few hours, have to do install SAS on systems where there are no SAS for (Macs)

9:16 AM

@daleif because addvspace can not "see" past the whatsit to see if there has been space already added so it adds more space

> Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella is joining the Starbucks board

hmmm

Everybody is now talking about AI as if it were something really new... sigh...

@DavidCarlisle I've tried that test file several different ways: I always get the TLT part

> After many years and at least one false start, Apple announced at WWDC last year that it would begin shipping a new, modern file system in 2017. Dubbed APFS (for Apple File System), it is designed to improve support for solid-state storage and encryption and to safeguard data integrity. When released, it will finally replace the nearly two-decade-old HFS+ filesystem that Apple has been tacking new features onto since 1998.

@PauloCereda Oooh

@JosephWright I am reading the morning news. :)

9:31 AM

@JosephWright yes I didn't make the file so it must have been some config but I can't remember now whether it was before or after you added -t processing,. anyway now, with the luatex.tlg there having the direction is right I'll check it in in a bit, i was just doing one for i and j composites

I have a workshop tomorrow and Friday. Everything is handled in TeX and scripts, from certificates to lists and schedules!

@DavidCarlisle I'll document -t and get l3build to CTAN (so everyone gets it from tlmgr)

@PauloCereda Cool

@JosephWright I could transform the whole material into a keynote. :)

9:46 AM

@JosephWright I'm not sure we can wait that long. Someone's thesis (Or @PauloCereda's conference notes) will get printed with missing ligatures

@DavidCarlisle I use XeLaTeX, should I be worried?

@PauloCereda yes (sorry)

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@PauloCereda if you are using a 2017 xetex you should get an updated tuenc.def

@DavidCarlisle oh

9:51 AM

46c46
<  [2016/12/11 v2.0a
---
>  [2017/01/24 v2.0c
60c60
<     \def\UnicodeFontTeXLigatures{mapping=tex-text;}
---
>     \def\UnicodeFontTeXLigatures{+tlig;}
63c63
<   \def\UnicodeFontTeXLigatures{+tlig;} % "+trep;" no longer needed
---
>   \def\UnicodeFontTeXLigatures{mapping=tex-text;}
72,73d71
< \DeclareTextSymbol{\textgreater}         \UnicodeEncodingName{"003E}
< \DeclareTextSymbol{\textless}            \UnicodeEncodingName{"003C}
74a73,74
> \DeclareTextSymbol{\textless}            \UnicodeEncodingName{"003C}

@PauloCereda ^^

@DavidCarlisle thanks

@PauloCereda by far the most serious change is the first one, swapping +tlg and mapping=tex-text apparently it doesn't work to use xetex syntax with luatex and luatex syntax with xetex.

@DavidCarlisle oh interesting

@PauloCereda which means if you do . ``hello'' . then you get exactly that not proper quotes as the tex ligatures are not turned on.

@DavidCarlisle got it

10:05 AM

@DavidCarlisle You OK for me to release l3build?

@JosephWright yes sure

@DavidCarlisle: \bm seems still to have some problems with zeros: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/350353/…

@UlrikeFischer I suppose I should look:-)

@DavidCarlisle Well you are in training anyway ...

@JosephWright keep oscillating on doing PL1 now. I see @UlrikeFischer suggesting that we fix up lmtt in base...

10:15 AM

@DavidCarlisle I think anyone printing their thesis this week should probably not be updating their TeX system, but what do I know

@JosephWright yes but if their thesis is in sharelatex or even on a university network, who knows when latex might or might not get updated, still the monospace issue looks like it might need fixing (haven't checked the details yet)

@JosephWright I'm never updating my TeX system. I simply install a fresh new vanilla TL each year, hoping you and Hans won't mess up and push conflicting versions that get to TL :)

@DavidCarlisle True, though network systems tend to run behind

@yo' We (team) are very cautious near the freeze date

@DavidCarlisle I can sort a release of base today, it's not a big issue

@JosephWright I know, that's what I rely on!

10:31 AM

@yo' We are pretty cautious generally, and as you can see here we are very much aware of the need to fix anything significant quickly

@JosephWright honestly, I believe you guys are crazy, but in the most postive way this word can mean (I hope this really does not sound like an insult)

@yo' Well to be fair you have met Bruno ...

@JosephWright I have, but I've also wittnessed the endless chats and signs of endless email discussiona about the stuff. I mean, many people are willing to devote a lot of time to something (like answering on SE), but not many people are willing to take the responsibility for something!

@yo' Remember it's mainly by accident: siunitx because I foolishly said I could fix a bug in SIstyle, the team because @WillRobertson asked me what I thought of expl3, beamer again because of one bug, biblatex as PL vanished and I thought it was a cool idea ...

2

@yo' My blog as it was a test for something for work ...

@JosephWright well, you could have freaked out of any of these, and you didn't. This signifies something :-)

(btw, and English question, is it correct to write "and you didn't" or "and you haven't" or "and you hadn't" in the previous sentence?)

10:48 AM

Good day. I am just searching google already for 20min. I am using biblatex with style=numeric. The author names always appear with capitalized letters. Could I also have normalfont, please? I am just unable to find the command for it. Sorry.

@UlrikeFischer can I just close as not my fault ? vvv

LaTeX Font Warning: Font shape `OT1/cmr/sb/n' undefined
(Font)              using `OT1/cmr/m/n' instead on input line 6.

@UlrikeFischer (@egreg) what's \usepackage[libertine]{newtxmath} supposed to do? why is it using cm for digits (and then not having a sb weight cm)

@DavidCarlisle Ups.

@DavidCarlisle Can't look now. I have to get something to eat and then train my chess children...

@Gudrun We'll need an example: numeric does nothing special

@UlrikeFischer No problem, Andrew Swann just posted an answer /workaround anyway

@JosephWright No problem, I will try to create one.

11:52 AM

@DavidCarlisle Ask Michael Sharpe! :-)

@DavidCarlisle How's xor? (discussing column balancing with a colleague)

@yo' Frank has new ideas: it's all about Alice now :)

@JosephWright Alice in Wonderland? no wonder it takes so long :)

@yo' The test text is exactly that, hence the name

@JosephWright oh, really?!

11:59 AM

@yo' Frank has Alice working but it's not currently public

@JosephWright well, I look forawrd to \usepackage{l3output} :-)

@yo' latex-project.org/publications/#publications-in-2016

12:27 PM

@yo' I understand her condition is stable.

@JosephWright This is the running mini example.

\documentclass[12pt,twoside,a4paper]{article}

\usepackage[french]{babel}
\usepackage[autostyle]{csquotes}

\usepackage{filecontents}

\begin{filecontents*}{123.bib}
@article{Soria, Author = {Soria, Jos{\'e} Mart{\'\i}nez}, Date-Added = {2015-07-28 06:45:48 +0000}, Date-Modified = {2015-07-28 06:46:20 +0000}, Journal = {JZ}, Pages = {643-651}, Title = {Die Unionsb{\"u}rgerschaft und der Zugang zu sozialen Verg{\"u}nstigungen}, Year = {2002}}

\end{filecontents*}

1:16 PM

@egreg I'm really wondering why I had to make things so difficult in unicode-math w.r.t. the var greek shapes

@WillRobertson Because they are? ;-)

@DavidCarlisle heads up — unfortunately vargreek naming in unicode-math is partially broken and will need to be changed

@egreg Well, see, with something like \mbfitsansvarepsilon → U+1D7C4 → 𝟄, it just makes no sense. Just because Unicode calls it "epsilon symbol" shouldn't have meant that I called it "varepsilon". I should have totally ignored the Unicode name and just stayed consistent with TeX

@WillRobertson The main problem is that what Knuth called var is the norm in Europe. When I see the dreaded circled phi or the lunate epsilon, I get goosebumps.

I'm really thinking that I should normalise everything back to the TeX naming scheme and drop the idea that someone would want to type \phi and result in what a TeX user would call "var phi" just because it's the letter between delta and zeta.

@egreg Oh really?!

@egreg So you would actually like a switch to move all \phi to \varphi and vice versa?

@egreg That makes my life easier :)

@WillRobertson At least continental Europe. And no, TeX has been like this for 30+ years, so better be consistent.

1:22 PM

@yo' -- since nobody else has answered, ..., both "you didn't" and "you haven't" make sense, but "you hadn't" doesn't really, since it implies timing that is potentially inconsistent with "could have".

Barbara! Would you agree that I should ignore Unicode and just stick with TeX's conventions of what is var and what is not w.r.t. phi/epsilon, etc?

@WillRobertson unicode was forced to change to be inconsistent with tex due to pressure from Greece....

@barbarabeeton It is nice to bump into you :)

@CarLaTeX -- (editor speaking) "looser" is a careless spelling of "loser". (that should make more sense. very common error.)

@DavidCarlisle Ah, that explains it

1:25 PM

@WillRobertson -- hi there. i'm usually lurking here during daylight hours (u.s. east coast). someday i have to get back to the stix naming mess; it seems that things have got much worse since last i looked at it, and it may be hopeless. (sigh.)

@WillRobertson apparently the Greek government thought they had a better idea what an epsilon should look like than a bunch of American mathematicians, but in unicode-math I think you should use tex derived names for both the base and the plane 1 alphabets

@DavidCarlisle -- i second that motion.

@WillRobertson w3.org/2003/entities/2007doc/#epsilon

@DavidCarlisle So we're saying to ignore that link, right?

@WillRobertson yes even though the author of that text is very eminent or to view it another way I'm saying to keep that text true where it says that the entities are different to the choices in tex.

1:30 PM

@barbarabeeton I don't know if it's got much worse, but my inattention has let a few bugs linger for far too long and now some of the names might need to stick around for ever

@DavidCarlisle Excellent — it's nice to have an authoritative answer on the matter!

@WillRobertson -- much of the "much worse" actually has nothing to do with you, but with the fact that some of the originally assigned codes in the pua were reused without telling me, and i'm having a great deal of trouble identifying what the actual location of some symbols is in stix fonts 2.0. also that the otf tables have completely changed the access information. that needs to be sorted out before dealing with naming.

@barbarabeeton ah, I'm sorry to hear that — I'm not sure if there's much I can do to help on that front :(

@WillRobertson -- probably true, but if i think you might know a particular answer, don't worry! i'm not afraid to ask.

@barbarabeeton well, looser is a comparative form of the adjective loose

1:55 PM

@barbarabeeton Thank you for the explanation, but still the meaning isn't clear for me in that context, maybe it makes more sense loose like vague? Do you intend so, @yo'? I'm also learning English on TeX.SE!

@CarLaTeX well, loose as in: This dress is loose, but the other one is looser. Loose is opposite to tight: s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a8/e2/6a/…

@yo' but speaking about an OP, does it mean too broad?

@CarLaTeX sorry, I don't know the context where you got it.

@yo' Referred to the poster of a question closed as duplicate: He's likely on to a looser

2:17 PM

@CarLaTeX -- here, "loser" makes sense: "the outcome to this is not likely to be useful", to give a very loose paraphrase. (joseph is british; i'm from the u.s. -- "separated by a common language".)

good night all — please prepare your unicode-math wish lists :)

@WillRobertson I @Will :)

@barbarabeeton Ah, it's slang... that's way I can't find it on a dictionary, thank you! :):):)

@CarLaTeX -- you're doing just fine with english. much better than i could do in italian (which i haven't studied) or german or french (which i have).

@barbarabeeton Thank you but I have a lot to learn also there! :):):)

2:29 PM

@CarLaTeX loose/lose is one of the most common spelling errors by native English speakers: common enough that you pretty much always have to double check if the other word was meant.

@DavidCarlisle I console myself, then!

3:22 PM

@DavidCarlisle @WillRobertson: Regarding TUenc: microtype produces quite a number of warnings:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{microtype}
\begin{document}

blbl
\end{document}

Package microtype Warning: Unknown slot number of character
(microtype)                `\`i'
(microtype)                in font encoding `TU' in inheritance list
(microtype)                `microtype.cfg/358(protrusion)'.

@UlrikeFischer hmm why does it warn about that if not for similar in EU[1|2] or T1 ?

@DavidCarlisle Not sure. I just heard of this problem and hadn't time to investigate. If one loads fontspec before microtype the messages go away. I would guess a problem with the font family name but will look at it now.

@UlrikeFischer ah I might just have fixed that this morning I get no warning when I tried it just now but this morning I added all the composites so \'i worked like \'\i and I note it is \'i that microtype is complaining about

3:42 PM

@DavidCarlisle This is imho only one side of the problem. The other is that microtype loads with fontspec mt-LatinModernRoman.cfg, but without fontspec only a generic mt-cmr.cfg. I made a copy of mt-LatinModernRoman.cfg, called it mt-lmr.cfg and change the family name everywhere to lmr and then the warnings were gone too.

@DavidCarlisle I found it. microtype.cfg contains

\ifMT@fontspec
\DeclareMicrotypeAlias{lmr} {Latin Modern Roman}
\else

So the alias works only if fontspec has been seen. If I add \DeclareMicrotypeAlias{lmr} {Latin Modern Roman} to the document the warnings go away and the correct configuration is used.

4:01 PM

@UlrikeFischer I noticed a message about default config. not sure how microtype config works, can it say do that alias if encoding is TU ?

@DavidCarlisle Imho yes. This should be quite safe. The question is if there are other places in microtype where it assumes that opentype fonts are only possible if fontspec has been loaded. Will you write the author or should I?

@UlrikeFischer you'd better: apart from running the occasional mwe here I've never really looked at microtype details:-)

4:26 PM

@UlrikeFischer thanks for the mail

5:08 PM

@cfr A Welsh question for you: is a non-Welsh-speaking Welsh person likely to know the word 'trefgordd', i.e. is it used in Welsh English?

2 hours later…

6:46 PM

@ChristianHupfer: Hi. Befor discussing the question of a hyperlinked TOC in comments:

What is the difference, when including the TOC in the TOC to the hyperlinked TOC of the PDF.

?

7:30 PM

@Jan ?

7:42 PM

@CarLaTeX chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/9004870#9004870

@DavidCarlisle David?

quack

@Jan I was trying to parse your TOC comment above (even though it was addressed to Christian)

@PauloCereda answer "use emacs like any sensible person" to this question and I'd give you an upvote

0

Q: LaTeX-Suite installation not working

I've recently installed Vim for Windows 10. After this I have installed latex-suite files in the $HOME/vimfiles/bundle directory (I'm using pathogen). I've configured my _vimrcfile as following: execute pathogen#infect() syntax on filetype plugin indent on set shellslash set grepprg=grep\ -nH\ ...

vim latex-suite vim-latex

@DavidCarlisle no :)

8:02 PM

@PauloCereda Hahahah

@PauloCereda oi I just looked what that linked to

@DavidCarlisle <3

@DavidCarlisle: you know I wanna be English. :)

@PauloCereda well you should not drop your t's if you want to move in high society

@DavidCarlisle oh my, deeply sorry

@DavidCarlisle I thought h's were the important letter.

8:07 PM

@FaheemMitha those too but there were no h missing from @PauloCereda's comment:-)

@DavidCarlisle I'm not sure which comment that was.

@DavidCarlisle <3

@FaheemMitha the line above. wanna == want to

@PauloCereda But does English have a grammar? Isn't it enough add an "s" now and then? (@DavidCarlisle)

@DavidCarlisle Ah. Well, that's American slang. Isn't it?

8:13 PM

@CarLaTeX Je ne parles pas Anglais.

Not quite the same as 'enry 'iggins.

@FaheemMitha quite so:-)

@DavidCarlisle Should I do a release?

@DavidCarlisle Just got in from work ...

@PauloCereda Ich auch nicht.

@JosephWright yes, sure, definitely, way to go, atta boy!

Release of what, by the way? :)

8:15 PM

@JosephWright please:-)

@CarLaTeX Muy bien! :)

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle I can't follow @Jan as well

@CarLaTeX yes it just has two production rules. "sounds right" --> valid and "sound wrong" --> fail.

@PauloCereda :):):)

Heute trinke ich mineralwasser und das buch ist auf den tisch.

8:17 PM

@DavidCarlisle OK

@PauloCereda Es war nicht der Stift? :)

@DavidCarlisle base and doc?

@JosephWright yes I need to do graphics-def for that vertical writing but that's new feature not a bug fix so probably best to leave that separate

@CarLaTeX die kartofel arbeit über alles.

@DavidCarlisle For Italians gestures are enough :)

8:19 PM

Deeply sorry for butchering your language, German friends!

@CarLaTeX Mum says the quickest way to make an Italian be quiet is to tie his/her hands together. :)

@PauloCereda I have never seen a potato that works

@DavidCarlisle Building now: still have to fully rebuild my work PC

@PauloCereda Mums are always right!

@CarLaTeX I blame ostriches, they are evil.

@CarLaTeX <3

@PauloCereda Poor ostriches, why?

8:23 PM

@CarLaTeX they are mean to us ducks!

@PauloCereda Ooooh I didn't know that!

@CarLaTeX well, at least some of them. :) One once tried to eat my duck puppet. :)

@PauloCereda Ooooh, I know they eat everything!

@CarLaTeX they do, their gastric juice can erode steel.

@PauloCereda oooh, you're an expert about ostriches!

8:27 PM

@CarLaTeX nah I have some information about them, that's all. :) When studying OS, we learn about their algorithm: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostrich_algorithm

@PauloCereda they taste good too, although I prefer d...

@PauloCereda Ostrich strategy is very common, not only in IT...

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@CarLaTeX it is :)

@PauloCereda seen current xkcd on side effect free functional programming?

@DavidCarlisle nope, let me check, hold on

:)

@DavidCarlisle referential transparency all the way

8:33 PM

@PauloCereda I just mention it to take your mind off crispy duck pancakes

@DavidCarlisle oh no, it's not working anymore

@PauloCereda Hot Network Question: workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/83451/…

@CarLaTeX oh my

@CarLaTeX: I am a duck, so people can talk to me here. :)

@PauloCereda I can't tell them, the question is protected and I haven't enough reputaton :):):)

@CarLaTeX ooh

8:55 PM

@CarLaTeX @PauloCereda The comments to this answer are priceless :-)

@yo' LOL

W. A. Mozart concert for 3 pianos! prehravac.rozhlas.cz/d-dur

@yo' teddy bear killer hahaha @PauloCereda I must take prof. van Duck at work!

@CarLaTeX ooh do it

@yo' has he just written a new one?

9:03 PM

@PauloCereda tomorrow I'll do it, I'll tell you my co-workers' reaction!

@CarLaTeX yay

@DavidCarlisle he probably got 2 more pianos, hence the 3 piano thingy

@PauloCereda who? that Mozart bloke? I thought he was probably too old to be buying new pianos now.

Stefan Kottwitz

@Jan Listing the TOC in a TOC is like having a bookmark to the bookmarks right in the bookmarks. Having a Favorite linked to the Favorites in the Favorites. Having a secretary for the phone numbers of girls including her. Oh wait, that case it's ok. When I need her number, I can call her. But she looks great.

9:21 PM

@StefanKottwitz that's one point of view. From the other point of view, there is no reason to exclude it; including it is consistent.

9:35 PM

anyway, I need to catch up with sleep time, so I'm off for tonight, bye!

Stefan Kottwitz

@yo' :-)

@yo' In that case a TOC needs a number too. Refer by a link, or by a number.

Each round of professional boxing has a ring card girl walking through the ring and presenting the number. Having a TOC in the TOC means having the card girl already for the announcement before the fight. I like that idea.

Stefan Kottwitz

10:03 PM

user image

10:26 PM

@StefanKottwitz Should the shop inventory be listed in the inventory?

10:47 PM

@JosephWright the deed is done, I see.

« first day (2278 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (2655 days later) »

Transcript for

Jan '1725

$TeX - LaTeX$ TeX, LaTeX and Friends

\begin{chat}

join this room
about this room

00:00

06:00

12:00

18:00

all times are UTC

$TeX - LaTeX$

site design / logo © 2024 Stack Exchange Inc; legal

mobile