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12:03 AM
@egreg Oh my! I'm amazed, the pasta is so elastic (maybe because it has no salt, if I understood)! And the formaggio! I'm gonna ask my mom to try it. :)
@PauloCereda Don't be lazy! Try it yourself ;-)
@GonzaloMedina I'd love to, but I can't take the risk! I'm gonna blow up the whole kitchen! :P
@PauloCereda "echando a perder se aprende" is what we say around here.
@GonzaloMedina OK, I'll try. :) And I'll take some pictures too. :)
@PauloCereda Above all, don't forget the pictures!
12:07 AM
@PauloCereda Yes, no salt.
Do you have "stracchino" cheese?
I'm good at fishing the gnocchi when they are boiled. I did that today. :P
@PauloCereda And what about "tortellini"? Your mom surely knows how to do them.
@egreg Hm I never saw one. But in bigger cities, I believe I can find it.
@egreg Oh they are delicious! I love the filling! :)
@PauloCereda My mom is a great maker of tortellini. Only during the holidays, though: it's quite a job.
We are almost there. :)
@egreg Really?! Another reason for going to Italy! :) It's quite a job indeed. I see my mom starting in the early Sunday morning. We come back from the mass and she's still working on it.
@GonzaloMedina: I have a friend who recommended me the chocolate santafereño. :)
12:16 AM
Hehe... surely your friend is from my natal city, Bogotá. Chocolate Santafereño is the traditional afternoon meal in Bogotá.
It's a cup of hot chocolate, with almojábanas and cheese.
Oh my, I need to go to Colombia too!
@PauloCereda Colombian food is really amazing and varied. It's a shame it's almost not known outside Colombia. The task for the new generation of Colombian chefs is to launch Colombian food outside our borders.
@GonzaloMedina I see. But it happens all over Latin America, I think. Brazilian food is fantastic, but even I don't know for sure the food from, say, Minas Gerais, one of São Paulo's neighbouring states.
@PauloCereda True, but everyone in Latin America knows "feijoada", for example, but almost no one (except Colomnbians, of course) knows what an "ajiaco" is.
@GonzaloMedina Sadly it's true. :( What is "ajiaco" BTW?
12:36 AM
Ajiaco is the traditional lunch in Cundinamarca: it's a soup with four kinds of potato, chicken, guascas (an aromatic leave), capers and it is served with avocado and rice: restaurantlacasa.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/ajiaco1.jpg
It looks so yummy! :)
@GonzaloMedina Better go to bed, or I'll develop a belly. :) Good night.
@egreg: Good night! :)
@egreg Good night!
@PauloCereda Now that we talk about food and feijoada, do you happen to know a good recipe for it?
@GonzaloMedina: we had a Chilean priest who came to the city. He was quite shocked when I told him I was used to eat avocados with sugar, as a dessert. Then he told me avocado is used a lot for salads and sauces. :)
@GonzaloMedina I can ask my mom for a recipe and write that down for you. :)
12:40 AM
@PauloCereda Avocado with sugar? I've never tried it, but will do. We usually put salt in the avocado.
@GonzaloMedina And I need to try it with salt. :)
@PauloCereda That would be really nice! Thanks to your mother and to you! The recipe must be, of course, written using cookybooky. ;-)
@GonzaloMedina Oh my, look what you've done! Now I want to use cookybooky to write the recipe! :)
@PauloCereda: I've been thinking about an idea about beamer, and I would like you to be a part of it. Are you interested?
Nothing too complicated.
@GonzaloMedina I'm glad to help! :) but you know, I almost was TeXcommunicated. :)
12:48 AM
I'll write you an e-mail with the details (tomorrow).
@GonzaloMedina OK! :)
Bed time. :) Have a good night @Gonzalo! :)
@PauloCereda Thanks. You too, Paulo!
Weird TeX fact: \def\foo{1}\edef\bar#1{#\foo} works.
1:37 AM
@BrunoLeFloch Nice!
7 hours later…
8:58 AM
@JosephWright: I'm reading Taco's article about LuaTeX and Pascal. And I'm already scared with the generated Pascal code (full of macro expansions). :)
@PauloCereda You want to try patching a WEB source when you don't write Pascal in the first place. Now that is scarry! (I did the work for the LaTeX3 team to get \pdfstrcmp into XeTeX: Jonathan Kew of course had to tidy up my initial hack.)
@JosephWright You have my deepest sympathy. :) I believe it were tough times. When I heard about Pascal, I thought, "Pascal? Cool, I'll be able to understand the code.", but then... :P
@PauloCereda Actually, the Pascal was not too bad, it was the WEB. Not being familiar with the syntax it took a while to piece together the bits required
@JosephWright :) Don Knuth strikes again. I almost believe this is another practical joke. :)
2 hours later…
10:50 AM
Impacts of the rubber post:
Q: What are the differences between latexmk and rubber?

jonalvI just stumbled on this blog post about rubber and was thinking: "Isn't that exactly what latexmk does?". So, now I wonder: isn't it? Or are there any other differences?

Nice answers so far. :)
And the question is great! :)
11:09 AM
I just figured that \endinput does only stop the reading of more text from an input file, everything which got already read after it stays in the input stream.
e.g. \@firstofone{\endinput<stuff>} inside a \input file will still include <stuff> in the document.
@MartinScharrer Doesn't \endinput have to be on a line on it's own to be effective?
@JosephWright Mmm, no not really.
I had a \end{foo} which has \endgroup\endinput in it, while \endlinechar=`^^J was in effect. That caused an omega symbol to be inserted (which has charcode 13 = ^^J).
So the endline char seems to be added directly after the \end{foo} was read.
@JosephWright: Ok, there we go: The TeXBook tells it:
\endinput. The expansion is null. The next time TEX gets to the end of an
\input line, it will stop reading from the file containing that line.
So, yes, \endinput should be on a line of its own
@MartinScharrer I had a feeling I'd seen something to that effect
11:29 AM
Q: Figures on left pages, text on right ones with class book, numbering only on right pages

MartiganMy problem is that I would like to have either blank or figures on the left pages, and text on the right ones, with the numbering of the right pages to be 1,2,3,4,5 and not 1,3,5,7. It means, in a book-derived class, to have right pages, with the odd layout, but with also an even number half th...

Wow, a 500+ bounty!
@MartinScharrer When TeX scans \endinput it continues tokenizing (and expanding) until the end of the line is found. Only after that the file is closed and TeX continues reading from the file that had said \input. If \endlinechar is ^^J this character is read and typeset.
@egreg What is when the line contains a comment %?
The Frescobaldi homepage (frescobaldi.org) added a link to our blog. :)
@MartinScharrer A comment char is discarded along with everything that follows: where's the problem?
11:48 AM
@egreg Well, normally it masks the end-of-line.
But TeX doesn't care about it, the "current line" is still the current source code line, isn't it?
My problem is that I like to discard everything after my macro which holds \endinput including the ^^J character and all text before it if any.
If there is a % the ^^J is commented away, so I can't assume that it is there.
@egreg: Other thing: Does TeX read the end-of-line before executing the macros at the begin of the line?
If I have a \endgroup which ends the scope of the \endlinechar=`^^J, then I think the end-of-line after it is still a ^^J.
@MartinScharrer The \endlinechar is added by TeX after it has scanned (in an operating system dependent way) the end of the input line and discarded whatever the operating system uses for denoting the record termination. If this \endlinechar happens to be behind a %, then it's discarded by rule. But if tokens follow on the same line the macro whose expansion contains \endinput, those tokens are processed.
@egreg But the catcodes are not assigned to the scanned line at this point, are they?
@MartinScharrer The catcodes aren't assigned during tokenization. TeX stores the line in a buffer, adds the \endlinechar and then proceeds to tokenize. The \endgroup would not change the \endlinechar, which has already been added.
@egreg Yes, that's the effect I keep seeing, but I never was sure why exactly.
12:09 PM
@MartinScharrer TeX by Topic is quite good on this topic, IIRC
12:20 PM
@egreg Thanks, I will have a look on it again.
Other thing: What is, if the macro is on the very last line of an input file, which does not include the last end-of-line character?
@MartinScharrer I'm not following you.
@egreg: almost rep cap! :)
@egreg A text file normally ends with an end-of-line character, but some files do not. Many text editors do not allow this to happen, but it is possible. The question is now, what TeX does when it encounters the real end-of-file but there is no end-of-line character. Does it still add \endlinechar?
I just made a test file and apparently it takes the line correctly and adds \endlinechar afterwards.
12:44 PM
@MartinScharrer: When you read a file with \read LaTeX always adds an extra line aswell. From TeX by topic: TEX implicitly appends an empty line to each input stream, so the last \read operation on a stream will always yield a single \par token.
@egreg: So I now disabling the % character to always have the end-of-line character and then gobble everything up to it.
I presume something similar happens when using \input
1:24 PM
@wh1t3 I believe so.
Q: Flexible equation, align, multline environment. $100 Prize

Emanuele ViolaI will pay $100 (one hundred) US Dollars to the first person to post as an answer below a command (say \foo{}) or pair of commands (say \foos, \fooe) that behave like: equation environment if there is no \\ nor & multline if there is a single \\ align if there are both & and \\ Also, ...

@PauloCereda This is stupid and I'd like that the moderators do something about this.
@egreg Agreed.
@JosephWright, @MartinScharrer, @StefanKottwitz: could you take a look on this question? tex.stackexchange.com/questions/36341/…
1:48 PM
@PauloCereda And less than 10 minutes to work out a solution.
@egreg Fantastic. And your reply is simply epic. :)
@PauloCereda, @JosephWright: I removed the cash price now. I don't think we should allow something like this here.
"Here it is; save your $100 to buy the TeXbook and the LaTeX companion:" - egreg
@MartinScharrer Thanks. I also believe it shouldn't be allowed. :)
@egreg: I checked my favorite online bookstore looking for the LaTeX companion book. I got the following advertisement: "people who bought this book also bought the following item: TALK THAT TALK - RIHANNA". For some reason, apparently LaTeX users are Rihanna fans too. :)
@PauloCereda Of course I removed it. :)
@PauloCereda Probably a different kind of latex. :)
@egreg Ah! Good point. I can see the importance of case sensitivity. :P
2:35 PM
@PauloCereda Well, instead of $100 I got a "Nice answer" badge. :)
2:57 PM
@egreg Cool! Another one for the collection. :)
3:11 PM
tex.stackexchange.com/a/37172/8344 What to do here? It's the guys first contribution after joining today. But it's not very useful. The question was answered quite well a couple of months ago. I feel bad about down-voting the newbie though...
3:23 PM
@wh1t3 What if we ask the newbie to expand the answer a little?
@PauloCereda: I thought about that, but still... What he is offering is not really a solution: "Disable hyperref". And there already is a perfect answer. I think I am just going to downvote it and leave a comment.
@wh1t3 I really don't know what to say. One of my first answers here were like this: incomplete/inconsistent, got a upvote and then a downvote. :)
This isn't just incomplete. I don't see how this could be expanded to a good answer or even an okay answer.
Good point.
@wh1t3 Q: I have to use hyperref, but this raises a problem. A: Don't use hyperref. :(
3:31 PM
@egreg: Exactly. I am just going to downvote it with a comment.
@wh1t3 I would only comment it.
@egreg: well, I'm mean. Downvote it is (this answer is not useful). He should really just delete it...
Besides, if we all downvote at least he'll get the peer pressure badge :P
@wh1t3 Now you are being mean. :P
Peer pressure badge is like the Indiana Jones of badges. :)
And the reversal one is like Rocky Balboa. He gets hit during all rounds, but in the last round, with 10 seconds left, he wins the fight.
I'm affraid you are going to have to explain the indy reference
@wh1t3 Let me try then: in the 3rd movie, his dad tolds his name is actually Henry Jones Jr. Then he says, "I like Indiana." And his father, "We've named the dog Indiana." And Indy shuts up. :) Peer pressure! :)
What a bad explanation.
3:45 PM
yeah, not too embarassed that I didn't get that one... :-P
@wh1t3 Oh my! :) YouTube didn't support me on this. I just found this reference: hark.com/clips/jztsrlljcx-we-named-the-dog-indiana
3:58 PM
@wh1t3: I upvoted your comment. :)
4:10 PM
What do you think about this post by doncherry?
Q: When should I not use a ligature in English typesetting?

doncherryTypesetting that goes beyond the scope of basic MS Word (e.g. LaTeX, or even modern Word versions with a good OpenType font) often uses ligatures for certain glyph combinations, the most common being f + f = ff f + i = fi f + l = fl f + f + i = ffi f + f + l = ffl. I would assume, however, that ther...

@egreg I'm a fan of ligatures, so I cannot imagine my documents without them. :)
@egreg: miffed ?
@wh1t3 Assuming it's "miff-ed", it belongs to the "final ff" category. :)
I think its just one syllable
4:30 PM
@wh1t3 Can you skim through your books and count how many syllable spanning "ff" are not rendered with a ligature? I bet very few.
Q: Is It Christmas? Code Golf

pcperiniChallenge Given that Christmas is December Month 12 Day 25 every year: determine today's date, and whether or not today is Christmas. If it is Christmas, you must print "It's Christmas". If it is not Christmas, you must somehow wait until Christmas and then print "It's Christmas". Example ...

A TeX-Christmas perhaps?
@egreg: quickly skimming one. I found that coefficients uses a ligature, but different, differentiate and effect do not
at least, no in the places I saw them
I'm going home though, so afk for a while :)
@PauloCereda pdftex and \pdfelapsedtime; but not going to be very efficient and accurate, as \day and \month don't vary unless set manually.
@egreg Ah I didn't know that. :(
4:46 PM
@PauloCereda There's also \time, that contains the number of minutes since midnight when the job started; but even \time doesn't keep ticking (and there are good reasons for this).
@egreg Is it only a timestamp?
@PauloCereda Yes, that's the idea.
@egreg Ah cool. :)
5:06 PM
Q: Google Books BibTeX export

AntonIs Google Books a reliable source of BiBTeX records? I've found a negative feedback back from 2008, and not sure it is sill valid. Unlike Lead2Amazon and Tungare's ISBN to BibTeX converter, Google Books relatively well understands Unicode and replaces it with control sequences. But are there fact...

I said it look off-topic, and still feel that or a dupe of the question mentioned in the comments. What do others feel?
@JosephWright I do feel it's off topic. The solution, if any, wouldn't be TeX-related at all.
1 hour later…
6:31 PM
I decided to give Lion a try. :)
6:56 PM
@PauloCereda And?
I created a tag, added a tag wiki excerpt and applied the tag to the first three questions.
7:09 PM
I finished standalone v1.0 which adds a bunch of new features. It would be great if people could test it with their files before I release it. The ZIP and TDS ZIP files can be found at bitbucket.org/martin_scharrer/standalone/downloads/… and bitbucket.org/martin_scharrer/standalone/downloads/…. Thanks!
@JosephWright I already have the .app file, now I'm gonna backup my stuff, extract the .dmg file, add it to a usb stick and then install it. :)
@PauloCereda I've got the .dmg and am waiting for a 'good moment': probably over the Christmas holiday
@JosephWright I'll probably do the same (I like to organize my apps beforehand). How about an install party? :)
Hi, everyone!
@GonzaloMedina Hello
7:15 PM
@GonzaloMedina Hi! It seems you already hit the rep cap. ;-)
@JosephWright Hello, Joseph.
@lockstep Yes, I did.
And yet another question retagged from to :
Q: Keeping checkboxes aligned using the Exam class

ScribblemacherI'm using the exam class in a multicols environment to create a series of worksheets. Many questions are yes/no. If the question is too long, it wraps to the next line and moves the answers. Is there a way to "anchor" the answer yes/no checkboxes to always appear right aligned on the first line a...

That's tag error no. 1 for sure.
7:30 PM
@GonzaloMedina Hi Gonzalo! :)
@PauloCereda Hi, Paulo!
7:50 PM
OckhamsRazor, England, United Kingdom
109 1
Ockham's Razor. :P
8:39 PM
Too much text in the Lyx ad?
@JosephWright I'm afraid so. :(
@PauloCereda I'd like that the UN banish numbering citations in the order of appearance. :)
It's almost like a crime against humanity. :)
@egreg We could start a petition. :)
@JosephWright: any suggestions for a LyX text?
@egreg Seems okay to me: citations in the order they appear
They're a bit tricky to follow otherwise
@JosephWright What if the bibliography items are over 50? Is it really possible to find them?
8:52 PM
@egreg Seems okay - look for the number!
A review in chemistry might have 500 refs
Do you choose an item in the bibliography and skim through the document to find where it's cited?
@JosephWright Oh my dear God!!!!!!
@JosephWright And how can you check the references related to one author?
@egreg No, that doesn't make sense at all: how would I know what it was about?
@egreg ???
We have the lead author last, so alphabetical would not help
@JosephWright So random is better? :)
8:54 PM
@egreg No, in order of citation is better
We tend to have lots of citations, so a series of papers by the same group, which then will have sequential numbers. It's not normal to include titles in the references section for chemistry, just the important part (authors, journal, year, pages)
@JosephWright Curious way to sort. I'll never understand it. Well, I do understand it: its origin is the way documents were typeset. There was no way to sort "rationally" a bibliography, so it was created when the manuscript was being written, appending an item when cited.
Don't tell me it's rational
@egreg Well, traditionally they would have been footnotes: some journals still are
It very much depends how you expect to read a reference list (to me, a bibliography is not the same thing). I want to check specific detail for a specific place, and have things numbered so they stay manageable.
Is it better?
9:01 PM
@PauloCereda Yes
Sorting by name would be a nightmare, as you'd have something like 'Pickett and coworkers (Wright et al., 2011) ...'
@JosephWright Say one wants to see if a particular article has been cited. How's it possible in a 500 item bibliography?
As I said, we have lead (starred) author usually last
@egreg Why would you want to do that, unless you were checking on your own work?
If it's a ref. to a review, it should be in the introduction, so read the text and find the appropriate place
@JosephWright Because I would like to know if the most important paper on the subject has been taken into consideration, for instance.
(500 refs. would be a big review. I'd normally have about 20 numbered references in a communication, and maybe 50-100 in a full paper. But some of those numbers would be several references.)
I get the impression these thing are very dependent on the publication approach of subject areas. Sorted-by-citation with numbers is common in physics and chemistry, where series of papers are common and so reference numbers are high. They also make sense for experimental work where it does not matter who wrote something.
@JosephWright I'm not a fan of author-year systems either. Plain numbers and alphabetical order. But in pure mathematics it's quite rare that an article has more than three authors.
9:06 PM
Another argument for order-by-citation is that the refs about the introduction stay together, as do those about the experimental (at the end, usually)
@JosephWright No, the real argument is that doing it with Word is easier. :)
@egreg As I said, in chemistry that would probably split up cases of related papers, as the person doing the experimental (first author) will vary but the lead (last author) is the same
@egreg You've not used a communication template with references at the bottom of each page. I have.
Those are 'Word compulsory'
Getting the numbers right is always a pain, too, but such is life
@JosephWright I'm happy not being into chemistry. :)
I like NaCL. :)
@PauloCereda NaCl? There is no element 'L' = 'ligand' (a variable group on a metal)
@egreg I'd write more stuff in LaTeX for work, but my boss would string me up
9:10 PM
@JosephWright Ah sorry, my bad. I'm terrible with chemistry. :)
As it is, I am regarded as extremely odd
Trying again: I like NaCl. :)
@PauloCereda :-)
NaK is much more exciting!
@PauloCereda Our preferred substance was CaCO3
9:12 PM
But only who knows Italian can understand why. So it won't be flagged as offensive. :)
NaK is an alloy of sodium and potassium, is liquid at room temperature and very reactive
@JosephWright Pour some water on it?
@egreg Certainly exciting
It reacts with Teflon!
@JosephWright Very good for cooking!
@JosephWright I want to be a chemist!!!!
9:16 PM
@JosephWright I didn't see the video! Really nice!
@PauloCereda Most of us are in the job for the flames :-)
@JosephWright LOL
@JosephWright: I'd love to learn Chemistry like this one:
2 hours later…
11:10 PM
blinks OH Accept rate is the % of questions I've accepted an answer on.
@JosephWright I've used a sequence in kantlipsum to store all the phrases. This makes the implementation easier.

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