TeX, LaTeX and Friends

daleif

04:29

@DavidCarlisle something like that, but a bit random as to what it messed with. I suggested trying a different browser or disabling extensions

Ulrike Fischer

08:50

@JosephWright still no l3kernel-dev ...

Paulo Cereda

3

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer no :)

@UlrikeFischer I guess we wait more than a week after it's out

Skillmon

09:54

@DavidCarlisle or dump them into saveboxes and use those

cis

10:18

@DavidCarlisle

I think the problem why my (900 page) document takes so long to translate is that I calculate the ~16 card layouts -per page- myself.

It should be quicker to use a ready-made playing card font.

Now I need a “60 card deck”.

So the question would be:
How difficult is it to turn this into a font file "60deck.ttf"?

Skillmon

@cis turn it into a PDF and use \includegraphics, much easier than turning it into a font.

Jasper Habicht

@cis Are you just using TikZ to draw the cards? Couldn't you use basic commands to draw them instead of TikZ? Might already be quicker.

cis

@Skillmon Easier maybe, but not so cool....

@JasperHabicht Maybe, but I find, I have mor options with TikZ: rounded corners, fill=creme and so on.....

My calculation-method to get the correct card from it's number looks like this:

\tikzset{%
% 60 cards deck ============================
declare function={
CardColor(\n)=(   \n <= 15 ? "spadecolor" :
  ( \n <=30 ? "heartcolor" : (
  ( \n <=45 ? "diamondcolor" : "clubcolor"
)));
%
 CardSuit(\n)=( \n <= 15 ?  "$\spadesuit$" :
( \n<=30 ? "$\heartsuit$" :
( \n<=45 ? "$\diamondsuit$" : "$\clubsuit$"
)));
%
CardRank(\n)=(   mod(\n,15)==1 ? "A" :
  ( mod(\n,15)==11 ? "B" : ( % Jack - Bube
  ( mod(\n,15)==12 ? "R" : ( % Knight - Ritter
  ( mod(\n,15)==13 ? "D" : ( % Queen - Dame
  ( mod(\n,15)==14 ? "K" : ( % King - König

cis

10:44

Mmmh...
Should the following work?

I don't get an svg file. (I have ImageMagick installed.)

I think it's kind of a myth that 'standalone.cls' can produce other formats (png, svg,...). I tried this many times, it never worked.

% arara: pdflatex: {  shell: yes }

\documentclass[tikz,convert={outfile=\jobname.svg}]{standalone}
%\usetikzlibrary{...}% tikz package already loaded by 'tikz' option
\begin{document}
\begin{tikzpicture}% Example:
  \draw (0,0) -- (10,10); % ...
  \draw (10,0) -- (0,10); % ...
  \node at (5,5) {Lorem ipsum at domine standalonus};
\end{tikzpicture}
\end{document}

Jasper Habicht

@cis You need Inkscape as far as I know

But there is also dvisvgm

cis

11:08

@JasperHabicht Oh yes, I found dvisvgm in my texlive. I will look deeper.

OK.... could work:

F:\and so on\svgTest>dvisvgm svgtest01.pdf --pdf
processing PDF file
  graphic size: 284.927486pt x 284.927486pt (100.140558mm x 100.140558mm)
  output written to svgtest01.svg
1 of 1 page converted in 0.522 seconds

Paulo Cereda

Waffle House Training - Pull Drop Mark Order Calling Method

►

David Carlisle

@cis but the time to make one deck is probably not that greatso as @Skillmon just says you could save them in 60 boxes and get access them essentially instantly. You could get fancier and re-use the objects in the pdf so they only got included once, but just using saveboxes would give you te time speedup

2

@PauloCereda dinner

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle same-same but different :) Isn't the package for that called savebox? (or something like that)

David Carlisle

@Skillmon bound to be somewhere:-)

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle xsavebox

Paulo Cereda

11:18

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@Skillmon hi mr rabbit! <3

Skillmon

@PauloCereda Hi, Mr. Duck! Long time no hear!

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon quack! /duck hug

Skillmon

@PauloCereda Awww, here, have a carrot: <3 /rabbit nibble

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon awwww

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle they updated the declaration page so I updated pdfresources

David Carlisle

11:25

@UlrikeFischer ignoring my suggestion to add useful anchors:-)

@UlrikeFischer I'll rebuild

mickep

@DavidCarlisle But is it declared somewhere if you are going to use periods at the end of the urls?

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle in the issue the anchors are mentioned, so probably they will get added too.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer ah so they are

@UlrikeFischer building now....

@mickep yes of course, and as you see above three at the end of sentences, so we can distinguish...

mickep

@DavidCarlisle Oh, English is so easy....

cis

Yes, but I need a cool method as well.
So better to create an own font then \includegraphics

I created one letter with TikZ in
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xcYOczbk6JshTXIMHqU2jNwe5-XnlcL4/view?usp=sharing

and after `dvisvgm`

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{tikz}

\usepackage{fontspec}
\newfontfamily\symfont{60deck.ttf}
\begin{document}
\section{Test}

{aaa \color{red}\symfont\char"00000}

aaa \color{red}\symfont\Huge\char"00000
\end{document}

Not perfect, because strange baseline. But not that bad for a first try....

mickep

11:40

@cis Well, that is supposed to be a "high" card.

cis

@mickep correct.... :)

David Carlisle

11:52

   <rdf:Bag>
     <rdf:li rdf:parseType="Resource">
      <pdfd:conformsTo>http://pdfa.org/declarations/wtpdf#accessibility1.0</pdfd:conformsTo>
      <pdfd:claimData>
       <rdf:Bag>
        <rdf:li rdf:parseType="Resource">
         <pdfd:claimBy>LaTeX Project</pdfd:claimBy>
         <pdfd:claimDate>2024-04-18</pdfd:claimDate>
        </rdf:li>
       </rdf:Bag>
      </pdfd:claimData>
     </rdf:li>
     <rdf:li rdf:parseType="Resource">
      <pdfd:conformsTo>http://pdfa.org/declarations/wtpdf#reuse1.0</pdfd:conformsTo>

@UlrikeFischer ^^^^

@mickep look no dots...

mickep

@DavidCarlisle You are such an antidot(e) to bad url styles...

David Carlisle

@mickep and insecure transport protocols

mickep

@DavidCarlisle Yes, these are weird in many ways. Also, why look like real links, when they are not really?

David Carlisle

@mickep I requested that they make the links work: github.com/pdf-association/pdf-issues/issues/…

mickep

@DavidCarlisle Indeed, makes sense.

cis

12:41

Could standalone.cls not use `dvisvgm`?

I tried without success:

% arara: pdflatex: {  shell: yes }

\documentclass[crop,tikz, convert={outext=.svg,command=\unexpanded{dvisvgm \infile\space\outfile}},multi=false]{standalone}
\begin{document}
\begin{tikzpicture}% Example:
\node[align=center, draw, rounded corners=1pt, inner sep=1pt,
minimum width=0.5*6ex, minimum height=0.5*9ex,
]{A \\ $\clubsuit$};
\end{tikzpicture}
\end{document}

samcarter

12:58

@cis pdflatex will give you a .pdf, not a .dvi.

cis

What do I have to do there?

I thought standalone.cls creates an svg, png, ..... etc. file in addition to the pdf.

Maybe I misunderstood that.

David Carlisle

@cis you would want to start with latex not pdflatex to get a dvi for dvisvgm to convert to svg

@UlrikeFischer all pdated at drive.google.com/drive/u/2/folders/…

cis

13:14

Uhhhhh.... nono:

I found out:
The mechanism of standalone.cls-convert should be what I thought.

But I wrote the command wrong, it is with '--pdf'

% arara: pdflatex: { shell: yes }

\documentclass[crop,tikz, convert={outext=.svg,
command=\unexpanded{dvisvgm --pdf \infile\space\outfile}},multi=false,
]{standalone}

This produces -as I thought- a pdf- AND a dvi-file.

________
So this was my first working standalone-conversion, @Martin Scharrer be proud of me...

Log says:
Executing command:
dvisvgm --pdf svgtest01.pdf svgtest01.svg

Jasper Habicht

I've got a totally different question: If I want for whatever reason redefine \" via expl3, should I do this via \tl_set:Nn or \cs_set:Npn? To my understanding, this is a control symbol, so something more like a control sequence (and if I analyse via \tl_analyse..., it also says control sequence. So, probably \cs_set is semantically more correct here?

David Carlisle

@cis oh yes --pdf although that's kind of werid as dvisvgm can't read pdf files so it simply calls ghostscript to convert to eps which it then tries to convert to svg, geting tex to make dvi would be a much simpler code parh:-)

Joseph Wright

@JasperHabicht cs

Jasper Habicht

@JosephWright So be it

David Carlisle

\cs` although (sometimes) i argue you should use \def

@JasperHabicht if you everwant expl3 debug or syntax checkers that check a cs name defined has the right :Nnnn signature it's difficult if you use expl3 commands to define the document level commands. there is an argument to say you should define an \jh_accent:n command in expl3 then \newDocumentCommand\"{m}{\jh_accent:n{#1}}

Jasper Habicht

13:26

@DavidCarlisle Yes, I also thought about this ...

`\par is also a CS then?

Maybe really \def ... but I am really don't want to destroy the expl3 beauty =D

David Carlisle

@JasperHabicht I'd probably use \cs_set

Jasper Habicht

@DavidCarlisle I now switched to \cs_set, yes. I can add a comment to the source code that warns people wo try to debug ...

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle OR \cs_set_protected, but yes

David Carlisle

@JosephWright ah that yes

Paulo Cereda

13:42

6

This hurts

daleif

14:04

Is there a good way to do callback functions in LaTeX? Say I want to use a macro like this \Foo{\Bar}{#1 has value}, such that \Foo can do some tests on par, and if on then #1 has value is the replacement text with #1 = \Bar. Here is also want to able to use this in deeply nested macros/envs.

Is there a good solution to this?

David Carlisle

14:15

@daleif not quite sure what you mean but something like this makes "bar has value"

\def\Foo#1#2{\def\footmp##1{#2}\footmp{#1}}


\def\Bar{bar}

\Foo{\Bar}{#1 has value}

\bye

Teepeemm

14:31

@daleif Aren't hooks the same idea as callback functions? I think I understand what you're saying until you get to "and if on then".

daleif

@Teepeemm It should have said if ok then run the second arg with #1 replaced by \Bar. Hooks will not work here. My mental image is something like \UseIf{\foo}{#1 users} should then do nothing if say \foo has no contents or is not defined. And if \foo=5, then \UseIf{\foo}{#1 users} should print 5 users.

It is to abstract away a lot of \ifdefvoid tests.

David Carlisle

@daleif what I posted, with the addition of some conditional code around \def\footmp

daleif

@DavidCarlisle and one neeed to remember the # doubling when using it in nested contexts

David Carlisle

@daleif well tex is tex:-)

daleif

14:48

It works quite well thanks.

David Carlisle

@daleif \clist_map_inline:nn is basically the same:-)

daleif

@DavidCarlisle and one has to remember ones nesting levels ;-) so \UseT\foo{#1 \UseT\bar{##1}} does work

cis

16:00

I think this is a FontForge-problem.

Is there a FontForge-trick?

The svg-file-import of the "2" should be placed at the position of the "Ace".

mickep

16:28

@cis You can align them yourself.

cis

I read, a fontforge-area (whatever) has 1000px x 1000px.
So I try to make a tikzpicture this size.

Jasper Habicht

@daleif =( some of the walls of the historic stock exchange seem to have collapsed now ... this is really a tragedy!

David Carlisle

! Package tagpdf Error: The number of automatic begin (97) and end (95) text
(tagpdf)                para hooks differ!

I bame @UlrikeFischer

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Ooops

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle which document?

David Carlisle

16:44

@UlrikeFischer a version of my paper with Neil after I put back llncs.cls, I can comment out various bits of llncs.cls and the number changes but always tells me that I am 2 out I'm not sure how to find which it is (well it's in \maketitle somewhere)

@UlrikeFischer you have an invite:-)

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle there are two vboxes not ended by \par, one in \institutename and one in \@maketitle.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer ah thanks I'll fix up after the meeting, could you try removing XXX from \long\def\XXX@makefntext#1{% as well?

! Undefined control sequence.
<argument> \ERROR
       \cs_set_eq:NN \__fnote_tmp:w \exp_stop_f:
l.35 \begin{document}

?

@UlrikeFischer ^

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle I will check. But while the title doesn't error, tagging looks a bit curious, the title is there more than once, they must be some trial typesetting somewhere.

Jasper Habicht

17:16

If I define a cctab is my definition then based on the default LaTeX kernel? So, what I mean, is there anything that is pre-defined? Where can I find more information on this?

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle ooh twitter.com/SoVeryBritish/status/1780984868383453219

cis

The center of the svg-graph has to be the center of the FontForge "draw area" (don't know how this is called).

And I don't know how to set that in the menues.

mickep

18:24

@cis Maybe first import everything, then mark them and set side bearings. I don't remember the name of the menu, but it is maybe second/third from the right.

David Carlisle

18:36

@JasperHabicht interface3 for the l3 interface and texdoc ltluatex section 5.4 for the Lua

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter @UlrikeFischer ooh twitter.com/IndieWorldNA/status/1780642475419340885

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer your crystall ball is shiny today:

       \global\setbox\titrun=\hbox{\small\rm\unboldmath\ignorespaces\@title}%
       \ifdim\wd\titrun>\instindent
          \typeout{Title too long for running head. Please supply}%

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle that was the one one, but there were more. I pushed changes in a new branch.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer ah thanks, I was just looking what you do for caption trials in latex-lab, ` \tag_stop:n{caption}` ... but I'll look at your branch

looks good here, should I merge?

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle Sure if it is okay with you.

David Carlisle

18:47

Package tagpdf Warning: Parent-Child 'Link/pdf2' --> 'Link/pdf2'.
(tagpdf) Relation is not allowed (struct 431, /Link --> struct
(tagpdf) 432) on line 60

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle somewhere is a link in a link. Do you have some \ref in a section title?

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer I'll look

@UlrikeFischer in the bbl

samcarter

@PauloCereda oh, de-duck-tions!

David Carlisle

doesn't like doi links

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle ah that explains why I didn't see it. I hadn't made the bib.

David Carlisle

19:01

I see doi is a link but why is it bad?

barbara beeton

@PauloCereda -- More on that subject in theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/may/04/… When TUG was held at Oxford, the play we attended outdoors was at one point overrun by swans; they're dangerous beasts! And I was once nearly attacked by a swan when I came too near to a nest on my bicycle; that was here in Rhode Island.

David Carlisle

-\NeedsTeXFormat{LaTeX2e}[1995/12/01]
+\NeedsTeXFormat{LaTeX2e}[2024-06-01]
 \ProvidesClass{llncs-t}[2024/01/29 v2.24
 ^^J LaTeX document class for Lecture Notes in Computer Science]

@UlrikeFischer I updated minimum accepted latex date a bit:-)

@UlrikeFischer oh they have used \url inside \href ...

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle there are two link structures, the code nests links..

@DavidCarlisle yes, that should be \nolinkurl

Jasper Habicht

@DavidCarlisle So, "as set by iniTeX" then ...

I'll look that up in the code base

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer yeh thanks for the help

Ulrike Fischer

19:07

@DavidCarlisle I think one still need to improve the \thanks command. They don't produce footnotes yet.

But I have to make dinner first ...

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer good plan, I just had mine:-)

Also there are no bookmarks/outline

Paulo Cereda

@barbarabeeton oh no, that's super scary!

barbara beeton

@PauloCereda -- Yes. It definitely was. Until you've actually been up close to a swan, you don't realize how big they are. (I'm talking about the white mute swans; the Australian black swans seem a bit more demure, but I've never met one in the wild.)

Ulrike Fischer

19:22

@DavidCarlisle \usepackage[hidelinks,bookmarksdepth=2]{hyperref}

Paulo Cereda

@barbarabeeton I am not familiar with swans, just ducks, mallards and geese. But I can image how massive they are!

Waiting for @DavidCarlisle to add "and delicious" to my sentence. :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda just think of a swan coming towards you as a self-delivering dinner

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh no

mickep

20:34

@DavidCarlisle <url./>

samcarter

20:46

@mickep I never imagined that a single . could lead to so many mails :)

mickep

@samcarter TeXers are sometimes a bit "funny".

(Or should I go inhere with "funny."? :P)

David Carlisle

@samcarter no more from me on that subject, I'm all wrong anyway, apparently:-)

samcarter

@mickep Or the save solution: "funny.".

@DavidCarlisle No respect for tex wizards :)

mickep

@DavidCarlisle I was just surprised that some of the o̶l̶d̶e̶r̶ more experienced texies were feeding the troll...

David Carlisle

@mickep even trolls need food sometimes.

Paulo Cereda

21:17

@samcarter ooh

Ulrike Fischer

21:31

@DavidCarlisle I added a Title tag, but I don't see an easy way to handle the institute "as footnotes", so I think one should simply add some Span around the markers with a Sup.

David Carlisle

21:47

@UlrikeFischer thanks, I also added some guards so the class works even if \DocumentMeta is not used. Not sure if I did that the best way

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle it should probably be enough to load tagpdf-base. That defines all relevant commands as dummies.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer ah I thought there were some dummies somewhere. I'll do that for the tagging. is there a better thing than \@ifundefined{l_socket_#1_plug_str}{% we don't seem to have an \IfSocketExistsTF

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle we discussed a IfSocketExistsTF (here github.com/latex3/tagging-project/issues/63) and imho we should add it as soon as possible. Something like this is really needed to guard the code.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer I could do \providecommand\IfSocketExistsTF[3]{\@ifundefined{l_socket_#1_plug_str}{#3}{#2}} then use that?

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle yes, sounds good.

David Carlisle

22:12

@UlrikeFischer done

cis

It is completely ununderstandable, why he needs to place importet svg-files there above (by default); and not at the baseline (red). Noone in the worlds wants to have that there.

And it's not good or professional to move this around with the mouse.

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle and you even removed the XXX

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer and the #1 which was magically being ignored:-)

samcarter

@cis Cough, use boxes or images, cough ...

David Carlisle

do I need to guard the trial \sbox setting in \@makecaption, or is that getting over-written anyway by latex-lab? latex-lab-float says % \cs{@makecaption} is defined by the classes so we overwrite it for now

@samcarter or picture mode

Ulrike Fischer

22:19

@DavidCarlisle ah, yes that gets overwritten, so one should check if the layout still fits.

cis

@samcarter Are you suggesting that I save images with card game symbols as a PDF and include them with \includegraphics?

No, that's way too uncool!
Everyone does it that way....
That's far too mainstream or "timeghost" [Zeitgeist] as they say in German.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer can I avoid that? I had the document working with article class but was hoping to use more or less exactly llncs style so Neil can ask the conference organisers or springer to make accessible conference papers. as it's an accessibility conference icchp.org

samcarter

@cis it might be uncool, but it would safe us from the constant stream of commentary on fontforge's capabilities :)

@DavidCarlisle I need to practise with tikz for a bit more until I can graduate to the next level and use picture mode :)

David Carlisle

@samcarter as long as you don't flood this chat with tikz comments while doing so.

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle you can remove the hook code RemoveFromHook{begindocument}[latex-lab-testphase-float], there is only the makecaption redefinition in it.

cis

22:29

You don't know the hotkey or tab for automatic moving to baseline either.
If someone finds out, we'll all have learned.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer ok thanks, I'll experiment with that

samcarter

@DavidCarlisle Don't worry, I reserve all my chat-flooding for duck related content

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter ooh

samcarter

@cis ... if someone finds out, this knowledge will be buried in an obscure chat room in which nobody will every find it again. To bad there aren't any Q&A sites where future users with the same problem would find an answer ...

@PauloCereda Quack!

David Carlisle

@samcarter not discussing technical details of tex markup in secret private github repos?

samcarter

22:37

@DavidCarlisle I'm missing all the fun!

David Carlisle

@samcarter I need all the discussion to be in an obscure chat room so that when people see the git log it will seem as if I'm brilliant and understood all this stuff and made it work with brilliantly coded checkins.

cis

You are forgetting my 3-hour lecture that I will give on that topic...
But.... yes, I have ideas to solve this TikZ-style.
Otherwise I'll open a thread about it tomorrow.

samcarter

@DavidCarlisle as long as the logs look good :)

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter quack <3

samcarter

22:54

@PauloCereda :P

LaTeXereXeTaL

23:18

Is there any danger in using \ProvidesExplPackage in place of \ProvidesPackage?

cis

Here I have written two Ms: MM

What is the normally disctance between these to Ms in LaTeX, say ComputerModern. :)

David Carlisle

23:43

@cis tex puts no space between characters and cmr10 has no kern specified between M and M so no space is added:

\documentclass{article}
\showoutput
\begin{document}

MM
\end{document}

shows:

...\hbox(6.83331+0.0)x345.0, glue set 311.66663fil
....\hbox(0.0+0.0)x15.0
....\OT1/cmr/m/n/10 M
....\OT1/cmr/m/n/10 M
....\penalty 10000
....\glue(\parfillskip) 0.0 plus 1.0fil
....\glue(\rightskip) 0.0
...\glue 0.0 plus 1.0fil

cis

@DavidCarlisle :65524867 @DavidCarlisle I thought this very small distance here.

David Carlisle

@cis that's not known about by tex it's the sidebearing within the font, ie the advance width is larger than the visible size, but tex knows nothing about which pixels are black

cis

@DavidCarlisle OK, I will research that.

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$TeX - LaTeX$ TeX, LaTeX and Friends