TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2024-03-28

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8:48 AM

Hi, everyone. In the comments of @Mico's answer (https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/714190/tilde-sign-in-url-is-appearing-in-superscipt-position/714193#comment1775314_714193), we discussed if there's any automated method to load the packages and their setup in a proper order and dependency?
Can you tell me if such a method exist?

@raf make a feature request for xurl that it changes \@ifpackageloaded{biblatex} to \AddToHook{package/biblatex/after} then loading order will no longer matter.

9:15 AM

@UlrikeFischer I mean, I am asking here for a general case, not just for xurl and biblatex.

@raf there obviously can't be a general solution to package order problems, you need to resolve each case separately.

I just checked a package named pkgloader (ctan.org/pkg/pkgloader). What's your thoughts on it? I haven't used it yet.

Another day another ucs package upload to ctan :(

:)

@DavidCarlisle ?

9:21 AM

@UlrikeFischer Petra doesn't think it's still 2022

@raf the general case is that package should avoid to introduce such order requirements. It is generally not needed nowadays. see also tex.stackexchange.com/a/709547/2388

@DavidCarlisle isn't it? how times fly. On other news I just mentioned l3sys-query to someone who loops over a directory with io.popen and learned the new words vey and mathing from the package documentation. Beside this texdoc l3sys-query opens the documentation of the tool, wouldn't it be better it opens the package and this refers to the tool docu?

@UlrikeFischer the idea is that texdoc l3sys-query will open the package doc (whcih is why it includes doc for expl3 and the tool itself) but that couldn't be set up until we released the package

@DavidCarlisle sounds good, it doesn't happen currently but that is then only a passing issue.

@UlrikeFischer Thank you.

@raf I haven't used that packge loader but I doubt that I would, as Ulrike says the issue is far less than it used to be and it never was as big a problem as people thought (most problems were due to people loading 1000 packages they don't use in a copied preamble. The problem can never completely go away though, if one package does \def\foo{a} and another does \def\foo{b} you need to decide which you want to win, or ask the package maintainers to change the names not to clash.

@UlrikeFischer do you have the latex-tools/dev version of the package via tlmgr already? I didn't get it in this morning's update/

9:35 AM

@DavidCarlisle I got all the devs yes after a few tries with random repositories.

@UlrikeFischer so what does texdoc -l l3sys-query show?

texdoc -l l3sys-query
 1 c:\texlive\2024\texmf-dist\doc\support\l3sys-query\l3sys-query-tool.pdf
   = Package documentation
 2 c:\texlive\2024\texmf-dist\doc\support\l3sys-query\changelog.md
 3 c:\texlive\2024\texmf-dist\doc\support\l3sys-query\security.md
 4 c:\texlive\2024\texmf-dist\doc\latex-dev\tools\l3sys-query.pdf
 5 c:\texlive\2024\texmf-dist\doc\support\l3sys-query\readme.md
   = Readme
 6 c:\texlive\2024\texmf-dist\doc\man\man1\l3sys-query.man1.pdf

@DavidCarlisle ^^

ah type 4 , I'll mail tl list and ask that changes once it reaches here...

10:23 AM

@DavidCarlisle It's available on the Oxford mirror

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{l3sys-query}
\begin{document}
\QueryFiles{*}{\detokenize{#1}\par}
\end{document}

1 hour later…

11:43 AM

@JosephWright ah I switched to warwick as oxford hadn't synced initially for the tl2024 full release,

@DavidCarlisle It varies

@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer l3sys-query update with CTAN

I wonder when we see the first question about it ...

@JosephWright depends on traffic on the M40, I suppose.

Which reminds me: I should update the answer that prompted me to write it :)

@DavidCarlisle :)

11:56 AM

@JosephWright [ 7/10, 00:33/00:39] update: latex-tools-dev [6286k] (69860 -> 70790) ... done

8 hours later…

Pablo González L

8:04 PM

@DavidCarlisle Hi, can you give me the output of this in `cygwin`, first `cp $(kpsewhich example-image.eps) example-eps.eps`, then this test file `\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{graphicx}
\begin{document}
\includegraphics{example-eps.eps}
\end{document}` (pdflatex) ?

@PabloGonzálezL that will probably not work as epstopdf can't convert files that are found only in a texmf tree.

Pablo González L

@UlrikeFischer Yes I understand, that's why first cp $(kpsewhich example-image.eps) example-eps.eps...it is related to (github.com/teatimeguest/setup-texlive-action/issues/292)

I know that Git-bash and cygwin (terminal) are quite similar, I want to know if the error can be reproduced when executing Git-bash and cygwin (terminal).

8:22 PM

@PabloGonzálezL no error and includes the image as expected

@PabloGonzálezL what error do you see?

@PabloGonzálezL ah, well we windows user tend to ignore commands without any vowel ;-) But I can confirm the issue, in git bash it doesn't work.

@PabloGonzálezL ah I see it's already raised at texk and other lists

@PabloGonzálezL use wsl or cygwin instead:-)

Pablo González L

Sniiiif....mmm...can see the code (.pl)?...fail un thia case...but why?

@PabloGonzálezL I don't have windows git bash, but in cygwin or wsl you are using perl and bash that come from the same system and share path syntax, but I guess with git bash you are using a native windows perl but a shell using linx style path separators and it gets confused

Pablo González L

@DavidCarlisle Mmm...can run (cygwin) perl epstopdf.pl --restricted imagen.eps?

8:37 PM

@PabloGonzálezL ?

I guess you just need an on_windows_or_bash test to add here

my $on_windows = $^O =~ /^(MSWin|msys$)/;
my $on_windows_or_cygwin = $on_windows || $^O eq "cygwin";

but not sure what test you's use

what is $^0 (os name) if you execute perl from git bash?

@PabloGonzálezL see tug.org/pipermail/tex-live/2023-September/049474.html

what do you get for

$ perl -e 'print $^O ;'
cygwin

Pablo González L

Mmm...run it from CMD (not git) using "perl epstopdf --restricted" ...this gives me the same error back

@PabloGonzálezL I don't have a windows perl to try

Pablo González L

Give me a moment (I'm on my cell phone)

Pablo González L

8:59 PM

```C:\Users\pablg>epstopdf --debug --restricted example-eps.eps
* on_windows=1, on_windows_or_cygwin=1
* Restricted mode activated
* Restricted Windows kpsewhich: c:\texlive\2024\texmf-dist\scripts\epstopdf/../../../bin/windows/kpsewhich
* Restricted Windows gs: c:\texlive\2024\texmf-dist\scripts\epstopdf/../../../tlpkg/tlgs/bin/gswin64c
* kpsewhich command: c:\texlive\2024\texmf-dist\scripts\epstopdf/../../../bin/windows/kpsewhich
* Checking if c:\texlive\2024\texmf-dist\scripts\epstopdf/../../../bin/windows/kpsewhich is in PATH

@DavidCarlisle If I call it directly with --restricted it works, but I don't know why, the path kpsewhich command: c:/../../../bin/windows/kpsewhich is misreported (clearly not there).

@PabloGonzálezL well as explained in the email thread you link to, you are using a windows perl so it does my @pdirs = split(/;/, $ENV{"PATH"}); to split up the system PATH and look in each directory but (I assume) if you echo $PATH in bash you will see directories separated by : not ;

I have started learning about expl3 some days ago. As I'm reading $ texdoc expl3, I'm writing minimal working examples. I just wrote this example for displaying all items in a sequence in separated lines. Any feedback or additional information is appreciated.
```
\documentclass{article}

\begin{document}

\ExplSyntaxOn
\seq_new:N \l_mymodule_seq
\seq_set_from_clist:Nn \l_mymodule_seq {item1, item2, item3}
\seq_map_inline:Nn \l_mymodule_seq{\par #1}
\ExplSyntaxOff

\end{document}
```

Pablo González L

9:18 PM

@DavidCarlisle You know...mmm...I have another impression, I think it works on windows only by luck, the path for kpsewich is totally wrong, I unloaded the version (texlive.info/tlnet-archive/2023/03/06/tlnet/archive) (which still has the win32 search directory which no longer exists) and it works as well.

52 mins ago, by David Carlisle

@PabloGonzálezL use wsl or cygwin instead:-)

Pablo González L

@DavidCarlisle Jejej, yes, but git-bash over windows terminal it's nice :D

```pablg@RayzenTeX MINGW64 ~
$ perl epstopdf.pl --version
epstopdf ($Id: epstopdf.pl 64317 2022-09-08 01:25:27Z karl $) 2.30
Copyright 2009-2022 Karl Berry et al.
Copyright 2002-2009 Gerben Wierda et al.
Copyright 1998-2001 Sebastian Rahtz et al.
License RBSD: Revised BSD <http://www.xfree86.org/3.3.6/COPYRIGHT2.html#5>
This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.

pablg@RayzenTeX MINGW64 ~
$ perl epstopdf.pl --debug example-eps.eps

@PabloGonzálezL but I don't have a windows git or a windows perl or the problem that they don't work, so that's even nicer

Pablo González L

@DavidCarlisle I'm just intrigued by the detection (just curious about perl).

@PabloGonzálezL what does echo $PATH show on the bash command line?

Pablo González L

9:25 PM

```$ echo $PATH
/c/Users/pablg/bin:/mingw64/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/mingw64/bin:/usr/bin:/c/Users/pablg/bin:/c/Program Files (x86)/Common Files/Oracle/Java/javapath:/c/WINDOWS/system32:/c/WINDOWS:/c/WINDOWS/System32/Wbem:/c/WINDOWS/System32/WindowsPowerShell/v1.0:/c/WINDOWS/System32/OpenSSH:/c/Program Files/gs/gs10.02.1/bin:/c/Strawberry/c/bin:/c/Strawberry/perl/site/bin:/c/Strawberry/perl/bin:/cmd:/c/Program Files/PowerShell/7:/c/texlive/2024/bin/windows:/c/texlive/2024/bin/windows:/c/Users/pablg/AppData/Local/Microsoft/WindowsApps:/usr/bin/vendor_perl:/usr/bin/core_perl```

@PabloGonzálezL well there you go, a native windows perl (or in fact a native windows anything) will not understand that. In cygwin or wsl it looks similar but the cygwin and wsl perl use the same filepath conventions so it all works out

Pablo González L

@DavidCarlisle The truth is that the first thing it takes is perl from Git-bash (not the straberry version).

oh you have a mingw perl? oh then it could work you just need the OS test to special case that and not take the windows rout as splitting that path on ; isn't going to do anything useful

so what does perl -e 'print $^O ;' show?

Pablo González L

$ perl -e 'print $^O ;'
msys

@DavidCarlisle The issue is that after the detection of $kpsewhich the correct path is never left (you can put a print "$kpsewhich"; and you will see that it is not right at all).

ooh so you just need a $on_mingw boolean set up at the start by testing that and then adding && ! $on_mingw in a few places so that it takes the right branch I expect Karl will sort it out

but the script already tries to do that: my $on_windows = $^O =~ /^(MSWin|msys$)/; except it's making it true not false... presumably so it uses a windows ghostscript

can't do more without the system to test but it should be easy to fix

Pablo González L

9:39 PM

@DavidCarlisle Not very enthusiastic about wind :D

@DavidCarlisle Yes, and I understand that, what I don't understand is why check where kpsewich is, you don't need the full path and it is the base of the installation.

@PabloGonzálezL sorry I'm out: too hard to debug all the conditional code paths if you don't have the system to step through,

Pablo González L

@DavidCarlisle I would appreciate it if you could comment something on the mailing list, my English is not very good and I can't explain myself easily :(

@DavidCarlisle Thanks for taking the time with the analysis :D ...now I know that it will fail if I run the test under msys2.

@PabloGonzálezL as i say I don't think Karl will need help, he knows the code, knows perl and (I would guess) has the system available

What does the "e" stand for in LaTeX2e? I searched for "latex2e" in the entire document $ texdoc latex2e, but didn't find an explanation for the "e" in its name.

@rdrg109 epsilon. It is latex 2-and-a-bit, a small step towards latex3

9:44 PM

Thanks!

Pablo González L

@DavidCarlisle The tests on Win in general are done by other members of the TeX Live team...I hope it will be solved :D

@rdrg109 latex3 was already an existing format in 1993 but wasn't ready for wider release, and just calling the major new release latex 2.10 so a .1 increment on 2.09 didn't seem to make enough of a "splash" so the name latex 2_e was devised

Pablo González L

@DavidCarlisle LaTeX3 is something like Perl 6 :D

16

Q: Why LaTeX2e has this name?

LaTeX2e is, if I don't make any mistake, the successor of LaTeX 2.09, and was published in 1994 (I was 4 year old !). My question is very simple : why has called it LaTeX2e and not, for example LaTeX 2.10 ?

@rdrg109 I just noticed who answered that one:-)

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