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1:48 AM
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usually the latex/LaTeX confusion is in the other direction :-)
 
 
6 hours later…
7:59 AM
LaTeX2e <2022-06-01> patch level 4
L3 programming layer <2022-06-16>
@JosephWright I suppose one option for @moewe would be to use the original \@uclclist of commands to uppercase by hand? vvvv
\documentclass{article}

\usepackage{graphicx}

\DeclareRobustCommand\fool{lower: \includegraphics[height=1ex]{example-image-a}}
\DeclareRobustCommand\foou{upper: \includegraphics[height=1em]{example-image-b}}
\makeatletter
\g@addto@macro\@uclclist{\fool\foou}
\makeatother
\begin{document}

\fool

\MakeUppercase{\fool}

\end{document}
 
@DavidCarlisle Could be
@DavidCarlisle I'm trying to work out why what I expect to be the right way isn't working!
\documentclass[ngerman]{article}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage{babel}
\usepackage{csquotes}
\usepackage[style=authoryear]{biblatex}
\ExplSyntaxOn
\let\MakeUppercase\text_uppercase:n
\text_declare_expand_equivalent:Nn \bibstring \expandablebibstring
\def\expandablebibstring{HOLDER}
\ExplSyntaxOff

\addbibresource{biblatex-examples.bib}

\renewbibmacro{cite}{%
  \bibstring{bibliography}%
  \setunit{\addspace}%
  \def\expandablebibstring{UPPER}%
  \MakeUppercase{\bibstring{bibliography}}%
  \setunit{\addspace}%
 
8:16 AM
texdoc.org is now at TL2022 :)
4
 
\documentclass[ngerman]{article}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage{babel}
\usepackage{csquotes}
\usepackage[style=authoryear]{biblatex}
\ExplSyntaxOn
\let\MakeUppercase\text_uppercase:n
\let\MakeLowercase\text_lowercase:n
\text_declare_expand_equivalent:Nn \bibstring \expandablebibstring
\def\expandablebibstring#1{HOLDER}
\ExplSyntaxOff

\addbibresource{biblatex-examples.bib}

\renewbibmacro{cite}{%
  \bibstring{bibliography}%
  \setunit{\addspace}%
  \def\expandablebibstring##1{UPPER}%
  \MakeUppercase{\bibstring{bibliography}}%
@moewe, @DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer ^^^ Basic idea of how to set this up using the mechanisms built in to expl3
 
@JosephWright I need to add a patch to allow biblatex to load as I have PL4:-)
 
\documentclass[ngerman]{article}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage{babel}
\usepackage{csquotes}
\usepackage[style=authoryear]{biblatex}
\ExplSyntaxOn
\let\MakeUppercase\text_uppercase:n
\let\MakeLowercase\text_lowercase:n
\let\DemoSub\text_declare_expand_equivalent:Nn
\ExplSyntaxOff

\addbibresource{biblatex-examples.bib}

\renewbibmacro{cite}{%
  \bibstring{bibliography}%
  \setunit{\addspace}%
  \DemoSub\bibstring{UPPER}%
  \MakeUppercase{\bibstring{bibliography}}%
  \setunit{\addspace}%
  \DemoSub\bibstring{lower}%
@moewe, @DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer ^^^ Slightly clearer version - we can use \text_declare_expand_equivalent:Nn to replace \bibstring by something else - I'd go for an expandable simplified version, as then it would 'just work'
 
@JosephWright do you need \let\MakeUppercase\text_uppercase:n here (losing the last remaining 2e wrapper?)
 
@DavidCarlisle That was just for a setup that worked with PL3 and would show the right effect - nothing to do with the fix
 
8:22 AM
@JosephWright that's what I thought, just checking...
 
@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer (@moewe) I guess we might want a version of \text_declare_expand_equivalent:Nn that's 'case aware', so if provides an upper/lower/titlecase version
 
8:43 AM
@DavidCarlisle well the problem is that they want to map \bibstring to different commands for upper- and lowercase and \@uclclist doesn't really support this as it assumes a symmetric pair.
 
@JosephWright so the l3 version of my \@uclclist example above, using gratuitously non-expadandable "text" would be this (which works fine in PL4)
\documentclass{article}

\usepackage{graphicx}

\DeclareRobustCommand\fool{lower: \includegraphics[height=1ex]{example-image-a}}
\DeclareRobustCommand\foou{upper: \includegraphics[height=1em]{example-image-b}}

\ExplSyntaxOn
\let\DemoSub\text_declare_expand_equivalent:Nn
\ExplSyntaxOff
\begin{document}

\fool

\DemoSub\fool\foou
\MakeUppercase{\fool}

\end{document}
 
@DavidCarlisle simply do \def\blx@err@patch#1{} % avoid error message
 
@UlrikeFischer having an example that doesn't use biblatex also works:-)
@JosephWright but as you say really wants a list of triples (or for Makeuppercase a list of pairs as in @uclclist) rather than flipping the general text expansion exception list betwn upper and lower
@JosephWright but presumably adding to the list slows down all usage so an inline version where you \def\foo{\loweruppertitle{foo}{FOO}{Foo}} and \text-.. pick the right one may be preferable for some usages
 
@DavidCarlisle I think that is useful too (perhaps even with four argument for the no-casing-at-all case). It is like \texorpdfstring and \pdfstringdefDisableCommands. One doesn't want to have all sort replacements for all odd commands in some fix list.
Anyone here which understands the tex c code? The miktex seems to have to do with a buffer overflow but I can't access which engines this can potentially affect and when: github.com/MiKTeX/miktex/issues/1121#issuecomment-1173039008
 
9:10 AM
@UlrikeFischer well I can more or less read the fragment but not seeing the context yet. buf is of size 20 and handled differently for xetex and ptex (utf-16) but I don't see why (or where) it is using the file contents there, that's never going to fit in 20 bytes. I'd just forward to texlive list
 
@DavidCarlisle ooh a plan
 
9:28 AM
@DavidCarlisle did the comment disappear again?
 
9:40 AM
@UlrikeFischer ?
 
@DavidCarlisle the miktex comment about the buffer overflow. I just wanted to sent to the texlive list and it seems to be gone. You just made more or less the same changes I made too including the command name ;-)
@DavidCarlisle but I think you should change the order here
      \let\HDorg@M^^M%
      \catcode`\^^M=\active
 
9:57 AM
@DavidCarlisle @UlrikeFischer Yes, I can sketch something up - the key for @moewe is that we will fix this I think at the expl3 end in a day or so (I'm busy most of today, so an extension may need to wait until tomorrow)
@DavidCarlisle I like that, but I wonder how @moewe hooks in - still seems to need a 'use a special definition in case changing' setup hook
 
@JosephWright is a hook needed couldn't biblatex define its commands to be \def\whatever{\CaseSwitch{normal}{lower}{upper}{title}} then like \NoCaseChange, \CaseSwitch has a global definition of \@firstoffour but within the text caser you make it pick the right branch
@UlrikeFischer I did it that way on purpose, to make it clear that the setting that matters is the one outside the definition
 
@DavidCarlisle but if ^^M isn't already active you are not storing/restoring the definition it has in the active case aren't you?
 
@UlrikeFischer oh I see what you mean about the miktex, I just refreshed the page and it went. maybe the comment was wrong, which was why I couldn't follow it:-)
@UlrikeFischer the current catcode setting isn't used, \let\HDorg@M^^M% saves the definition of an active ^^M, the following \catcode\^^M=\active` is for reading the input file, it has no effect on tokens within the definition
@UlrikeFischer that ^^M is known to be an active token, as it is set on line 744
 
10:14 AM
@DavidCarlisle ooh
 
@PauloCereda breakfast^^M
 
@DavidCarlisle oh no^^M
 
@DavidCarlisle ah right.
 
@UlrikeFischer so I push to ctan?, they will be missing us, it's almost mid day and they have not had a ctan upload from us yet today
 
@DavidCarlisle the question is if one want \CaseSwitch in lots of command even if the document never use \MakeUppercase. So perhaps a additional hook, to allow also \let\foo\foocasing before the casing command if wanted and then one could do \foocasing= \CaseSwitch{normal}{lower}{upper}{title}.
@DavidCarlisle yes please, I will be away for the afternoon. Or perhaps one should try first with a few documentations ;-)
 
10:29 AM
@DavidCarlisle L3 is the new easybook?
 
10:48 AM
@DavidCarlisle oh, more $$...
 
@UlrikeFischer why is math being set in .\PU/pdf/m/n/10 1 ??
@mickep $$ least of the problems there:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Oh I see. I like the argument by authority, though. :)
 
why when looking at the source of a package you have never heard of do you always find comments like % add 14apr18 per dcarlisle, tug.org/pipermail/tex-live/2018-April/041437.html
 
@DavidCarlisle We could use $$$
 
@DavidCarlisle Sure but we need to swap out what \bibstring does without I guess imposing that on biblatex. Or are you thinking \def\bibstring{\SomeCaseFunction}
@UlrikeFischer So something like a two-part setup: we have \CaseSwitch and also \text_declare_case_replacement:Nn, then we use the latter to allow people to swap out commands to case-switching ones (where we assume these are protected functions so don't just 'produce text')
@moewe I think we will have a solution today :)
@DavidCarlisle Which one?
 
11:04 AM
@DavidCarlisle Isn't it nice to see your ideas/code being added to the packages?
@JosephWright Probably this question
 
@DavidCarlisle ??
 
@JosephWright mathtext but as @mickep says. that is actually a brilliant mwe, every line is needed:-)
@JosephWright sounds good
 
11:22 AM
@DavidCarlisle if you move mathtext just before hyperref it stops also. That's a real puzzle.
 
@Rmano or add what it says in the warning and add \usepackage[T2A]{fontenc} it looks like something is adding a token after the closing $$ so defeating the implicit ignorespaces, so the end of line makes a space, but haven't found it yet
 
11:37 AM
@PauloCereda better to use €
 
@DavidCarlisle ooh will \usepackage[british]{babel} catcode that to £? :)
 
@UlrikeFischer the question asks about a space after $$ but the $$123$$ text is set in PU encodig
 
@DavidCarlisle I'm, can't test now, but has it to do with the safe/restore spaceskip code of hyperref?
 
@UlrikeFischer I need to eat duck lunch, will come back to this later
 
@DavidCarlisle oh no
 
12:15 PM
The hunt for space.
 
@DavidCarlisle I've logged in the issue
 
@UlrikeFischer @JosephWright on the space after math, ... \group_insert_after:N \mv@normal@reset I wonder who we can blame....
 
12:31 PM
@DavidCarlisle ???
 
@DavidCarlisle Oh
 
@JosephWright you get a space after $$ because the new "undo mathalphabet assignments if you are running out of slots" code aftergroups a token that loses the ignore space after $$ so using \EuScript in an earlier expression causes a space to appear later in the document, trying to make a MWE
 
 
3 hours later…
3:50 PM
Can someone point me to the code from whence this warning comes from?
> LaTeX Warning: There were undefined references.
 
@FaheemMitha source2e, \G@refundefinedtrue
 
@MarcelKrüger OK. Can I find that in the source2e document?
I.e. texdoc source2e?
What is latex.ltx?
 
4:13 PM
Judging by the hits I'm getting, it's possible to customize this warning. But I can't find any pointers on how to do so. Can anyone provide anything?
 
4:24 PM
@FaheemMitha Sure, just look for ` \G@refundefinedtrue. latex.ltx` is the source of the LaTeX kernel, all of it is in source2e.
 
4:34 PM
@MarcelKrüger OK.
 
4:53 PM
@FaheemMitha it's the source of latex
 
@DavidCarlisle The entire thing in one file?
 
@FaheemMitha yes it is generated from 50+ documented source files, look at the comments at the top
@FaheemMitha you can only customise it in the sense latex is open source and you can change anything. It is not designed as a configuration point
 
@DavidCarlisle OK.
@DavidCarlisle OK. Searching for \G@refundefinedtrue brings up a lot of hits. I don't understand the code, but I thought maybe it was for customising that message.
 
5:18 PM
@FaheemMitha it's just a tex primitive \if, it is not a macro with a definition. it is \iftrue if there has been an undefined \ref and \iffalse otherwise.
 
@DavidCarlisle OK.
 
5:44 PM
@DavidCarlisle well it is the fault of this mathtext.sty, and it is old:
\documentclass{article}

\usepackage{mathtext}

\DeclareFontEncoding{PU}{}{}
\DeclareFontFamily{PU}{pdf}{}%
\DeclareFontShape{PU}{pdf}{m}{n}{ <-> cmr10 }{}%
\DeclareFontSubstitution{PU}{pdf}{m}{n}%

\begin{document}
abc
\showoutput
$a$

\end{document}
 
5:55 PM
@UlrikeFischer why would it do that?
 
@DavidCarlisle no idea. I thought you know as you offered a solution in 2018 when it broke because of the utf8 move. ;-)
@DavidCarlisle do you know why \IeC is called like that? (question on the german list)
 
6:32 PM
@FaheemMitha I answered your question, but received no feedback. Did it solve your problem?
 
@AlanMunn Oh. Yes, I think it did. Or will. I was trying to get to the point where I could confirm that it did, but I haven't yet.
@AlanMunn But I should at least upvote. I'll do that now.
 
6:50 PM
@UlrikeFischer IeC is called like what? (just discussing with frank if we need PL5 for that space
@UlrikeFischer oh you mean why that name? InputEncodingCommand
 
7:34 PM
@DavidCarlisle Good thing with many users: Also the funniest bugs are found.
 
@mickep I an ideal world I'd use a math typesetting engine only available to one or two people. could you imagine such a world?
 
@DavidCarlisle I don't get your point.
 
8:25 PM
@DavidCarlisle Why would that be an ideal world?
 
8:56 PM
@FaheemMitha users generate bug reports, feature requests,...
 
9:52 PM
@DavidCarlisle Is that bad?
 

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