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7:52 AM
Good morning!
Does anyone know if luatex not working in a current MiKTeX is a known issue?
This is LuaTeX, Version 1.13.0 (MiKTeX 21.3) (format=luatex 2021.5.15) 15 MAY 2021 08:50
restricted system commands enabled.
! Emergency stop.
<*> \relax

*** (job aborted, no legal \end found)

! ==> Fatal error occurred, no output PDF file produced!
(Also, if anyone can give me some tips on how to get markdown working in the chat ...)
8:17 AM
it's a bit tricky...for multiline, you just paste them and you should see a "use fixed fonts"
button appearingg on the right.
Let me try that.
Roses are red,
Violets are blue;
All my base
Are belong to you.
Neat, thanks!
@PauloCereda where is a duck albatross when you need one?
9:07 AM
@DavidCarlisle quack
@DavidCarlisle what happened?
@PauloCereda I was going to use albatross to answer a question (basicall which monospace fonts have ⨝) so...
 albatross ⨝ | grep -i mono
@DavidCarlisle ooh
that lists a whole load of things including
? Bitstream Vera Sans Mono                                                    ?
? DejaVu Sans Mono                                                            ?
? FreeMono                                                                    ?
? Liberation Mono                                                             ?
? Linux Libertine Mono O,Linux Libertine Mono                                 ?
? Miriam Mono CLM                                                             ?
? Nimbus Mono PS                                                              ?
\setmainfont{Noto Serif}
\setmonofont{Noto Sans Mono}

This is displayed:

├── common.yaml
└── virtual
    ├── false.yaml
    └── true.yaml

This is not correctly displayed: ⨝
I got
                    Unicode code point [2A1D] mapping to ⨝
│ Font name                                                                   │
│ STIX,STIX Two Math                                                          │
│ Symbola                                                                     │
Missing character: There is no ⨝ (U+2A1D) in font Noto Sans Mono Regular/OT:scr
9:11 AM
@DavidCarlisle I will investigate
@PauloCereda better do it before lunch:-)
@DavidCarlisle oh no
@DavidCarlisle it works with Symbola... that's odd... would it be too dificult if you send me your Noto Sans Mono font file?
@PauloCereda I can confirm your output. I also have the fonts @DavidCarlisle lists but they do not show up for me.
@TeXnician Thanks!
@PauloCereda probably came from noto-website-2.storage.googleapis.com/pkgs/…
@PauloCereda what's the syntax to specify by codepint not literal character? (in case it's commandline parsing issues)
if I add -d some of the fonts show code point [78], font details, mapping to x why is it looking for x ?
9:23 AM
@DavidCarlisle 0x<hex>
@PauloCereda get same list
@DavidCarlisle the downloaded font does not have the glyph, let me try something else
@DavidCarlisle mind if I ping you on Skype?
@PauloCereda what are you doing to check if a glyph is in a font?
9:40 AM
@UlrikeFischer check if the codepoint is available. :)
@PauloCereda yes, but how? Which tool looks into the font?
@UlrikeFischer I will write to you in a minute. :)
I just did a google search for a math chat room as I have a quick question
Q = 100 cm3 s −1= 10−4 m2 s −1
How is 100^3 = to 10^-4 ?
Hope its ok!
@TeXnician it is a commandline parsing thing, it works with 0x2A1D (if i type it right) but not with ⨝
@lewisdbentley this isn't really a math chat but we are fairly relaxed about subject topics..
@DavidCarlisle yes, the list is much shorter then.
9:48 AM
@UlrikeFischer ah so you see the same in windows, it isn't just a cgwin quirk?
@DavidCarlisle yes.
@PauloCereda you might want to ignore cygwin users but if it doesn't work on windows either then just blaming @UlrikeFischer might not be sufficient
@DavidCarlisle ooh
@DavidCarlisle but I really don't know what copy&paste does here exactly with non-ascii. Albatross tells me Unicode code point [3F] mapping to ? so I guess it looks for 3F now.
@UlrikeFischer I will investigate. For now, it's seems safer to just look for the codepoint. By the way, the dev version supports U+ syntax, as requested. :)
9:53 AM
@PauloCereda @TeXnician :
A: Is there any monospace font supported by LuaLaTeX that define the JOIN operator (⨝)?

David Carlisletexlive comes with a useful program albatross that shows fonts that have a glyph: $ albatross 0x2A1D __ __ __ .---.-.| | |--.---.-.| |_.----.-----.-----.-----. | _ || | _ | _ || _| _| _ |__ --|__ --| |___._||__|_____|___._||____|__| |_____|_____|_____| ...

@DavidCarlisle "useful"?!?!?!?! ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
@PauloCereda well I could have said "utterly broken but manages to make some vaguely correct output if you spend an hour in private chat with the developers" but I thought that was a bit long.
@DavidCarlisle you are a national treasure, kind sir
@PhelypeOleinik tabularray: Typeset tabulars and arrays with LaTeX3 you're too late!
@Skillmon /rabbit sounds
10:08 AM
@Skillmon ooh
@DavidCarlisle ooh
@DavidCarlisle if one uses a U+00A0 in math one gets a missing char or (with lmodern) a ä in the output. Do you think one should do something about it?


$A + B = C$

@UlrikeFischer mathchardef "8000 expanding to a normal space?
@DavidCarlisle something like that, sounds sensible doesn't it?
@UlrikeFischer although you don't have a lot of control over what the active definition is, someome make have made U+00A0 globally active expanding to ~ or \nobreakspace for example.
10:18 AM
@DavidCarlisle why is there no problem with pdflatex? What does it with the char?
@UlrikeFischer oh the code above has spaces....
@PauloCereda quack?!
@Skillmon <3
@UlrikeFischer pdftex is expanding it via \DeclareUnicodeCharacter{00A0}{\nobreakspace}
11:14 AM
@Skillmon Oh, that author publishes two or three packages per week! That one looks really good!
@Skillmon Hm... \verb doesn't work
11:45 AM
@PhelypeOleinik I think it doesn't really matter basically no one ever complained about verb in tabularx, and that only has a very rough \meaning based versiion, could do better with \detokenize
@DavidCarlisle Likely true :)
11:59 AM
@DavidCarlisle I never complained because if I need it I use \dimexpr in tabular.
@PhelypeOleinik siunitx neither ...
@PhelypeOleinik it's not my fault, is it?
12:15 PM
@UlrikeFischer that's a show-stopper, indeed.
@Skillmon well it is the first version. But the main question is really how extensible it is.
@UlrikeFischer haven't yet taken a real look :)
@PauloCereda Not sure, but to be on the safe side let's assume it is
@Skillmon I mentioned \verb because it's the obvious candidate for failure, but there is probably a lot that's incompatible (even though it doesn't claim compatibility)
@Skillmon It's an amazing piece of work though
@PauloCereda Hi duck person! I have been drawing ducks :p
@Plergux ooh
@PhelypeOleinik oh no
12:31 PM
@Skillmon using explicitly calculated widths is usually better than tabularx anyway.
12:49 PM
@DavidCarlisle the first issue discusses how to replace longtable ;-)
@UlrikeFischer yes I have a watch on that github for a while (can't recall why originally)
@DavidCarlisle yes, you mentioned it some weeks ago, I took a look then, trying to decide if it has or will have the right hooks for tagging ...
1:08 PM
@UlrikeFischer naturally it helps to be fluent in Chinese.
1:31 PM
@PhelypeOleinik question is: is it better than nicematrix? Because that's the other package with similar possibilities.
@Skillmon No idea :) Indeed both seem equally powerful
@PhelypeOleinik I'm using neither myself. tabular usually suffices. But still both very interesting packages. Now I'm waiting for your \verb-working, siunitx-compatible, box-based implementation :)
@Skillmon I'm not a table person either. The list of tables in my thesis has two entries :)
@Skillmon Make yourself comfortable
1 hour later…
2:59 PM
@DavidCarlisle I apologize in advance for the inconvenience, can I ask you a question regarding my question on nested fractions (which you answered on the main page)?
If you don't mind, I'd like to ask you this question here, because it's quicker than commenting below the post.
Otherwise, I'll continue the conversation on the website.
3:59 PM
@LukeTheWolf don't ask if you can ask :-) (just ask)
4:40 PM
Is it safe to have a wolf in a chatroom occupied by ducks, sheep and rabbits? :)
I anyone has a cabbage, we could try out
A river crossing puzzle is a type of puzzle in which the object is to carry items from one river bank to another, usually in the fewest trips. The difficulty of the puzzle may arise from restrictions on which or how many items can be transported at the same time, or which or how many items may be safely left together. The setting may vary cosmetically, for example, by replacing the river by a bridge. The earliest known river-crossing problems occur in the manuscript Propositiones ad Acuendos Juvenes (English: Problems to sharpen the young), traditionally said to be written by Alcuin. T...
@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 simple, get wolf to eat the duck sheep and rabbit, then make single crossing
@DavidCarlisle You are aware that this might interfere with your dinner plans?
@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 we could eat wolf instead
@DavidCarlisle ... with cabbage as side dish?
4:58 PM
Well, this sucks. It looks like I have a latexmk bug. I have a LuaTeX file here. With latexmk it takes 1m15.316s. With LuaTeX directly it's 0m16.348s. That's the real time output from the Unix time command. Quite a big difference.
But I'm not sure how to debug it.
@FaheemMitha update latexmk.
@UlrikeFischer I just upgraded to the latest version. 4.73.
> Current version, by John Collins (Version 4.73). Report bugs etc to his e-mail (jcc8 at psu.edu).
So no bug reporting system, apparently.
@FaheemMitha ? reporting by mail is a reporting system.
@UlrikeFischer I meant, not a site.
And it's general preferable that bugs be public, anyway.
5:18 PM
@FaheemMitha well I prefer it too, but it is the choice of the author, and nobody force you to use the tool.
1 hour later…
6:37 PM
Hi, why does this not work? (I get allways 'darkgray')

\def\PhaseTest{\ifx\Phase gas red%
     \else \ifx\Phase solid black%
         \else \ifx\Phase liq blue%
\else darkgray%
@cis \ifx\Phase compares g with a and that is always false.
I can make it runable, if necessary...
@UlrikeFischer Mmmhh, I tried braces...
@cis braces doesn't matter, \Phase is expanded here. Try \def\Phase{gg} and you will get true.
@UlrikeFischer I understand. What is the correct way`?
@cis use expl3?
@cis but I wrote nonsense, your test is wrong but not because of the reason I wrote.
6:45 PM
\edef\ISgas{gas}\ifx\Phase\ISgas yes \else no\fi ? It should work...
@cis you need something like this

\def\PhaseTest{\ifx\Phase\Phasecompare gas red%
 \else ...

@UlrikeFischer Ok, I thought so.
@UlrikeFischer So the minimum effort is basically this:

\def\PhaseTest{\ifx\Phase\PhaseGas red%
     \else \ifx\Phase\PhaseSolid black%
         \else \ifx\Phase\PhaseLiquid  blue%
\else darkgray%

A bit cumbersome.
@cis as I said: use expl3, I long ago stopped to use this low-level commands (which is why I always confuse \ifx and \if ...).
@cis yes... I use it in circuitikz because it must be plain- and context- compatible... (although I am not sure how many users I have on those, once I had a bug for two months and nobody complained...)
It's not that unnice.
I just wanted something that compares lists

if {gas, solid, liquide} then

somehow so.
@Rmano Ah yes.
7:03 PM
@DavidCarlisle tex.co/live Is this ok, or do you have suggestions for improvement? I'm sure my German is worse than yours, except that I'm good at gobbling spaces.
@cis e.g.

   \str_case:nnF {#1}
      {solid} {blub}


\phasetest{gas} \phasetest{solid} \phasetest{waterish} \phasetest{?}
@UlrikeFischer Oha...
8:01 PM
@samcarter_looks_forward_TUG'21 XD The Icelandic version is wolf, sheep, and hay :)
@Plergux In the German version, the sheep is sometimes replaces by a goat
:) There is even a proper riddle:
"Hvernig flutt var yfir á,
úlfur, lamb, og heypokinn.
ekkert granda öðru má,
eitt og mann tók báturinn."
Sorry for being a bit late :'P
I understood what you explained in the post, but I was left with a doubt: let's leave aside for a second the fact that it would be better to avoid nested fractions.
Let's take the following answer as an example https://tex.stackexchange.com/a/208369/229795.
If we were to compare it with the example in the original question, can we say that it is equivalently valid, or in terms of mathematical typography is it wrong in any case ?
PS: I admit I'm not entirely sure if the term "mathematical typography" is correct, but I heard it used in a lecture by Prof. egreg a
2 hours later…
9:56 PM
@StefanKottwitz looks Ok to me, the usage figure are remarkably stable actually aren't they amost always between 3.5K and 4.2K except dipping to 2K on a saturday:-) You could mention the original learnlatex use as well perhaps or maybe you just want to concentrate on forum use here
@LukeTheWolf well even in that answer the author has added a comment that the use of cfrac is wrong. cfrac is for continued fractions, they shouldn't be used here at all. Sometimes ehen you have fractions in nemerator and denominator it works to use dfrac in both to keep it all a bit bigger, but using cfrac in the numerator when there is just a normal single line denominator makes it look horribly top heavy apart from the fact that cfrac is the wrong markup as it isn't a continued fraction.

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