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12:33 AM
@AlanMunn -- Can't think of another example at the moment, but I think the key point is that here it's a specific option being referred to, and "repeating" that option's spelling in the explication is reinforcing its use. Color/colour might be similarly questioned; I've often seen both in a document produced by a native British speaker, but color is always used for the option. (For overlay you could avoid the problem by saying "is overlaying"; a definite cop-out.) I'll keep thinking.
6 hours later…
6:59 AM
@PauloCereda Thanks, Paulo. Which versions of Evince and Poppler are installed on your machine?
@AlanMunn I think it might be a question of how old the formation is as well. In mordern Icelandic there is a way to form a feminine noun by putting a -un ending on it, but it used to be -an so we have words like svipan (swift movement), which only has the old form, and hegðan / hegðun (behaviour), which has both forms, and mengun (pollution), which only has the modern form. Even knowing that both forms exist puttin an -un on svipan or an -an on mengun sounds weird.
1 hour later…
8:32 AM
@AlexG will check in a minute...
2 hours later…
10:04 AM
Can someone tell me, where the "tail" of a page breaking paragraph is being stored?
10:24 AM
@Lupino On the MVL
@Lupino You can't access it from the macro layer
@JosephWright unless you modify OR, right?
@JosephWright is it accessible from \AtBeginShipoutNext ?
using lualatex, if that helps
10:41 AM
@AlexG evince 40.1-1, poppler 21.03.0-1
@Lupino What are you trying to do?
@PauloCereda Thank you! There should poppler 21.04.0-* be available in the Arch pkg repo. My evince is older, but my poppler is newer (the current stable release on upstream). I think it is a bad poppler build.
@AlexG ooh can I make a Futurama reference? :)
@JosephWright I'm creating a journal layout where the first (title) page is 1.5 column (narrower, left column contains article meta data, the larger right column contains abstract and beginning of fulltext) and the second and subsequent pages are regular, balanced twocolumn. My first idea was to have the first page \oncolumn with a wide leftskip and the meta data in an rlapped vtop and the \twocolumn within a \AtBeginShipoutNext.
@PauloCereda Yes, at all costs :)
@PauloCereda :-D
so far this works, it is just the breaking paragraph that "keeps" the wrong leftskip and is placed like in onecolumn mode
@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle you saw that there is new zoom number?
@UlrikeFischer Er, just asked Frank about it
@JosephWright mail sent
11:17 AM
Hello everybody
Do you know where the complete documentation for the tabular environment is located?
On this page, we talk about all its derivatives, but not about the tabular itself.
A: Which tabular packages do which tasks and which packages conflict?

Stefan KottwitzI would like to start with a small list that used to be part of the tables wiki and is now maintained here. Overview of packages Basic packages array offers more flexible column formatting; fixes to some spacing issues. An almost "must-use" package. booktabs supports professional looking ta...

11:34 AM
% !TeX TS-program = xelatex

! Undefined control sequence.
<argument> ...line {mylines[\mylinecnt ]}&\myline
                                                  \edef \mylinecnt {\number ...
l.13 ^^I$\mmtdecl{a\\b}
I'd appreciate any hints as to what is wrong here. Without the aligned environment, it works like a charm.
11:46 AM
@Lupino you can see how afterpage package gets hold of this but I don't recommend doing the same
@Lupino that is easy if you have a forced page break (there is nothing to catch then) and automatic page breaking won't really work as you can't re-set the paragraphs that have already been set to the wrong column width.
@ComFreek your loop construct is using local assignments and a table cell is a local group so as soon as you insert the & it forgets what it was doing
@DavidCarlisle Ah, that makes sense! Is there any easy way to work around the problem?
@DavidCarlisle a hard \clearpage was my previous solution, but the publisher has objected...
@DavidCarlisle is there a way using lua(la)tex? I tried to dive through documentations but haven't found something useful yet
12:08 PM
@Lupino The issue is that (even in LuaTeX) the paragraph is already broken with the old width, so ou can only access the broken paragraph and no longer the original one. You could copy the paragraph before linebreaking and then rebreake that copy once you now the new dimensions, but that gets messy. (See tex.stackexchange.com/questions/493012/… where I did something similar in another context)
@MarcelKrüger if you know that the paragraph breaks over the page (e.g. from a previous run) you could set the parshape at the begin couldn't you?
12:24 PM
@UlrikeFischer Yes, as long as you know which paragraph and which line of the paragraph will break.
12:47 PM
@Lupino short answer no, longer answer there is always a way but it would be complicated and fragile and break on half the documents you try it on. Imagine that the first page ends mid paragraph at a hyphenated word, you would have to find where that was (not easy) and then reconstitute the paragraph-so far as a single hline restoring any white space (you will have to guess that) and undoing any hyphenations and then re-linebreak the result to the new line width.
1:17 PM
@DavidCarlisle okay, thanks so far.
1:57 PM
@ComFreek doing inline table loops is a bit tricky it's usually easier to do a loop first building up the table body in a macro then execute the macro at the end so \gdef\bdy{} \foreach .. whatever {\g@addto@macro\bdy{this.&row& stuff\\}} then you can safely do \begin{tabular}{lll}\bdy\end{tabular}
2:13 PM
@AlexG I guess you saw this answer too tex.stackexchange.com/a/592827/2388?
@UlrikeFischer Yes, it is the Acrobat 6 (PDF 1.5) media embedding method that I used in the movie15 pkg.
@AlexG and what are the drawbacks? Why did you drop it?
@UlrikeFischer Unfortunately, there is no pdfmark equivalent to \pdfnames and \special{pdf: @names ...}`.
@UlrikeFischer Because it was marked obsolete/overseeded by RichMedia in one of the newer PDF specs.
@UlrikeFischer I think it was PDF-1.7 (Acrobat 8), after purchasing MacroMedia and its Flash product.
@AlexG yes I checked that. Also I saw a similar problem when I worked on the file embedding. But ghostscript could like with EmbeddedFiles build the name tree from the objects.
@UlrikeFischer Moreover, it did and still does not support the newer media formats, most notably h264.
2:27 PM
@AlexG ah, but imho having something reasonable looking for mp4 would already help in a number of places.
@UlrikeFischer Yes, maybe, but currently I have no resources to resume movie15, I would need to re-write it from scratch and all that documentation...
... That nobody will read anyway. :)
@AlexG you got mail.
1 hour later…
4:04 PM
@Plergux Very possibly. But in this case that would presumably bias us towards the regular spelling, which is what David and I think, but doesn't seem to be what most people so.
@AlanMunn What most younger people do maybe? :p
@Plergux are you saying we are old ?
@barbarabeeton Yes, indeed, although that's purely a function of American hegemony in option spelling. :) So I will use 'colour' when I'm not talking about the option itself.
@DavidCarlisle No, quite the opposite: we're ahead of the curve here!
@DavidCarlisle no, of course not. Merely that those who are younger than you use something different. :p
@Plergux But you've got it backwards: the regularlzation spelling should be the innovative one here.
4:08 PM
@AlanMunn Ah, ok. There is also the question of hypercorrection, when people think something is "righter" than what is generally used (like vehemently using "you and I" instead of "you and me" like most people do).
@Plergux Now not spelling 'lose' as 'loose' shows we're old. (Or merely just educated). :)
@Plergux Right, and that's what I think this ultimately is. Like the wonderful story of –ing in English.
Today I was somehow directed towards tex.stackexchange.com/a/12673/117050 and noticed that nicematrix is missing in that list. I wanted to add it, but can't decide whether it should be an "all-rounder" or about "colors and fancy features".
Doh moment: you cleverly create a deployment branch for your website and then don't understand why pushes to main don't show up.
@AlanMunn d'oh
@AlanMunn That's the universe telling you to go and get another cup of coffee, tea or whatever beverage you fancy
4:22 PM
@PauloCereda you should pass on the important message in skype to Alan
@DavidCarlisle to my surprise, your code worked almost 1:1 in my document! Thank you very much!
@ComFreek I am of course highly offended that you show surprise:-)
with LaTeX having a syntax that appears as foreign to me as Chinese, sure
But I've really become connoisseur of \NewDocumentCommand lately!
@DavidCarlisle ooh
@AlanMunn I'm not too familiar with that. I kind of took the back-door into linguistics by doing "general linguistics" and picking weird things like sign language morphology, essentially skipping all the syntax and historical grammar of most other languages, including Icelandic :p
4:46 PM


The first array fails with "misplaced omit", the second does not.
I don't see any difference, the first should readily expand to the second, no?
> When you use a \multicolumn in your tabular, the implementation achieves the desired effect by a combination of the two TeX primitives \omit, to remove the cell's column format, and \span, to "merge" two column cells into one.
@ComFreek so now you see why there is \NewDocumentCommand and \NewExpandableDocumentCommand
to my non-suprise, just using NewExpandableDocumentCommand works like a charm! :-)
Hi. Quick question, I left a comment below this question (tex.stackexchange.com/questions/592941) because I remembered that I saw the exact same question some days ago but I couldn't find it anymore. Now my comment is gone. Could it be deleted by moderators or a bot? I honestly do not know why the comment would be "bad".
3 hours later…
8:03 PM
@Dr.ManuelKuehner I don't think there's a comment deletion bot. And it's unlikely that a mod deleted it. Is is possible that the comment didn't actually get posted? That's happened to me before.
8:38 PM
@AlanMunn Ok, thanks! Maybe I should change my medication :).
2 hours later…
10:48 PM
@DavidCarlisle Can you see any obvious problem with this markdown? github doesn't like it:
[A short introduction to using LaTeX on the Mac]({{ site.baseurl }}{% link assets/latex/nano-companion.pdf %})
11:22 PM
@AlanMunn Do you need link ? at LL I think we'd use [intro]({{"/assets/latex/nano-companion.pdf" | relative_url }})

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